Wylie1
Member
Foam, check! 
Remington 770 Real World Review and Mild Modifications
- Thread starter Wylie1
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788Ham
Member
Wylie,
HA! What a thread my man, I can hear the gears just'a grindin' reading this story. You'll definitely know how to get the action out of the stock when you're thru, bet Remington never thought about motorcycle clamps would work in their rifles! LOL Keep us apprised on your smithing adventure, hope it shoots better than you even thought!
I can see where the wind has caused you some troubles, I had the same problem with mine a day ago. Finally got my .223 to shoot 3 shots into a .590 group tho @ 100 yds, I'd installed a new trigger and was getting used to it before I finally hit pay dirt! Good luck!
HA! What a thread my man, I can hear the gears just'a grindin' reading this story. You'll definitely know how to get the action out of the stock when you're thru, bet Remington never thought about motorcycle clamps would work in their rifles! LOL Keep us apprised on your smithing adventure, hope it shoots better than you even thought!
I can see where the wind has caused you some troubles, I had the same problem with mine a day ago. Finally got my .223 to shoot 3 shots into a .590 group tho @ 100 yds, I'd installed a new trigger and was getting used to it before I finally hit pay dirt! Good luck!
Wylie1
Member
The saga continues!
Thanks Ham,
The thread locker was built up so bad today the screws needed a little friendly persuasion in coming out of the stock! I think I could assemble this rifle in my sleep at this point and I definitely ground some more gears today!
I thought I was going to make it out to the range earlier today so I picked up the 770 and was going to check the chamber but the bolt stuck as I went to move the action. I expressed my feelings with a few choice adjectives and started scratching my head again thinking about how I'd remedy this issue.
I've seen a video on the Internet of this same problem. It has to do with one of the screws having a taper at it's heads base. Each time you put rifle together and torque everything down this taper allows the screw to dig a little deeper in the plastic stock eventually contacting the bolts locking lugs on the other end.
After unscrewing the barrel and receiver from the rifle AGAIN I thought I had a little part that would give the screw more surface area with less taper to create more strength. One box I looked in had one in it but I didn't see it there the first time and found another in another room eventually going back to this box to look for something to drive the part into place with and then found the little part. :banghead:
A couple real careful measurements and drill bit sizes later I had the part in place but didn't manage to grab threads on the receiver with the mounting screw. Being the other screw is longer I pulled it out and set the part in place by torquing the screw in real tight. A couple more choice adjectives were used during this process as well.
After all of the guff this thing gave me going into place it doesn't look so pretty but it functions just as it was intended to do, now I just hope it takes a bluing well. Oh yeah after all of this I get to clean this thing again!:banghead:
Oh yeah this little part came out of some roller blades, it sets on the outside of the bearings but I don't know what they are called.
To be continued, at this point that just sounds like I'm asking for trouble!
Thanks Ham,
The thread locker was built up so bad today the screws needed a little friendly persuasion in coming out of the stock! I think I could assemble this rifle in my sleep at this point and I definitely ground some more gears today!
I thought I was going to make it out to the range earlier today so I picked up the 770 and was going to check the chamber but the bolt stuck as I went to move the action. I expressed my feelings with a few choice adjectives and started scratching my head again thinking about how I'd remedy this issue.
I've seen a video on the Internet of this same problem. It has to do with one of the screws having a taper at it's heads base. Each time you put rifle together and torque everything down this taper allows the screw to dig a little deeper in the plastic stock eventually contacting the bolts locking lugs on the other end.
After unscrewing the barrel and receiver from the rifle AGAIN I thought I had a little part that would give the screw more surface area with less taper to create more strength. One box I looked in had one in it but I didn't see it there the first time and found another in another room eventually going back to this box to look for something to drive the part into place with and then found the little part. :banghead:
A couple real careful measurements and drill bit sizes later I had the part in place but didn't manage to grab threads on the receiver with the mounting screw. Being the other screw is longer I pulled it out and set the part in place by torquing the screw in real tight. A couple more choice adjectives were used during this process as well.
After all of the guff this thing gave me going into place it doesn't look so pretty but it functions just as it was intended to do, now I just hope it takes a bluing well. Oh yeah after all of this I get to clean this thing again!:banghead:
Oh yeah this little part came out of some roller blades, it sets on the outside of the bearings but I don't know what they are called.
To be continued, at this point that just sounds like I'm asking for trouble!
Wylie1
Member
Trails and tribulations leading to advanced smithing!
After I finished cleaning up the 770 this time I rushed it out the door to the range along with the old Mosin. I should have known something was amiss once I got to the range being I left the bolt for the Mosin at home!:banghead:
It started out pretty calm with out much wind but by the time I had the rifle close to sighted in with the last of the Q3130s the wind picked up and I was thinking I should have brought some gloves.
I have to start narrowing this down one adjustment at a time although I didn't know I would have to do the work with the screw's issue.
The groups were going bad again today even with a little time between rounds at some points while shooting for cooling of the bore. I know I'm a much better shot then what was being put on paper today so I'm thinking this Nikon I got such a good deal on might be a lemon. Shot pattern was wild not making any discernible sense to me.
During the shooting today I was checking the screws to see if they had loosened but they remained tight and tightening them more did move my group with the Q3130 rounds so here we go with more advanced modifications. Epoxy bedding is just a messy thing that scares me a bit and the machining of bedding blocks with the tools I have at hand could be a great effort wasted but I've been through this type of thing before and just have to make the best parts I can with the tools at hand.
After I finished cleaning up the 770 this time I rushed it out the door to the range along with the old Mosin. I should have known something was amiss once I got to the range being I left the bolt for the Mosin at home!:banghead:
It started out pretty calm with out much wind but by the time I had the rifle close to sighted in with the last of the Q3130s the wind picked up and I was thinking I should have brought some gloves.
I have to start narrowing this down one adjustment at a time although I didn't know I would have to do the work with the screw's issue.
The groups were going bad again today even with a little time between rounds at some points while shooting for cooling of the bore. I know I'm a much better shot then what was being put on paper today so I'm thinking this Nikon I got such a good deal on might be a lemon. Shot pattern was wild not making any discernible sense to me.
During the shooting today I was checking the screws to see if they had loosened but they remained tight and tightening them more did move my group with the Q3130 rounds so here we go with more advanced modifications. Epoxy bedding is just a messy thing that scares me a bit and the machining of bedding blocks with the tools I have at hand could be a great effort wasted but I've been through this type of thing before and just have to make the best parts I can with the tools at hand.
Wow. I think you are about to figure that thing out. LOL! It is unlike Nikon to put out a lemon, but it does happen. My 3-9x40 prostaff has been sitting on my 308 for 1000 rounds, and hasn't even hinted at giving up the ghost. They do have a good warranty, so If you are sure it is the scope, send it off and wait for them to make it right.
I was glad to see that the AMax rounds helped that much. That shows promise! I would seriously look into the Sierra 165 gamekings for hunting though. They are still very accurate, but are designed for hunting. The 168s and AMax bullets can kill, but shot placement may be more critical. I lost a deer that I hit with an AMax. I don't know what happened, but I followed the blood trail for 300 yards before it just vanished. Even had a dog that couldn't pick up the trail. The thing is, I know that I hit that deer well...it wasn't a shot that just "clipped" it and knocked fur off. This thing was hit with an ideal broadside shot. I know some of the ballistic tip bullets have a habit of "exploding" when they hit bone. That would probably take a deer down, but I wouldn't want to chance it on larger game.
I was glad to see that the AMax rounds helped that much. That shows promise! I would seriously look into the Sierra 165 gamekings for hunting though. They are still very accurate, but are designed for hunting. The 168s and AMax bullets can kill, but shot placement may be more critical. I lost a deer that I hit with an AMax. I don't know what happened, but I followed the blood trail for 300 yards before it just vanished. Even had a dog that couldn't pick up the trail. The thing is, I know that I hit that deer well...it wasn't a shot that just "clipped" it and knocked fur off. This thing was hit with an ideal broadside shot. I know some of the ballistic tip bullets have a habit of "exploding" when they hit bone. That would probably take a deer down, but I wouldn't want to chance it on larger game.
Wylie1
Member
Figured out, not so sure about that really but I'm working on it.
This is a ProStaff BDC on new low mount Quad Weavers so from what you have said I'll leave it be for the time being. If I don't manage to pull the groups in tighter with either torque adjustments or the bedding blocks the Nikon goes bye bye.
The A-MAX really performed and let me know the potential of this rifle. The Bushnell scope wasn't dialed to absolute zero at that time, two clicks up and two to the left should have had it on the mark.
If I am correct an A-MAX (definitely a ballistic tip though) is what I took my deer with this year from what looked to be about 90 to 100 yards out. I had never shot this Savage 270 before and that deer dropped without taking a step. I hit high of my mark because the gun (I would guess) is ranged for 200 to 250 yards.
I have Sierra 168 Matchkings coming already and have seen the best accuracy through the Mosin with the Matchkings. From what I have read the 165 and 168s are right in the middle of the preferred bullet weights for the 1 in 10" bore twist in a 22 inch barrel. As well to go to a heavier bullet sounds to make a mess of the meat and my thought is they may wear the bore slightly faster, IMHO anyway.
Edit:
There was a point I meant to make mention of in todays shooting and had forgotten. The first A-MAX I went to cycle into the chamber from the magazine (I loaded 4 rounds into the magazine without loading one in the chamber) bound up when the bolt pushed it forward hitting the tip and likely flawed the bullets flight pattern. It hit three inches off the mark.
After that I took a quick assessment of the possibility of the o-ring I installed causing this. I found that there is a place somewhere between (just about right in the middle) the bolt contacting the magazine and the sloppy loose position of the magazine where the rounds do cycle without issues.
It seems every time I put my hands on this rifle there is something else that comes to light as an issue and as time goes on (it's only been a week today!) these issues are demanding a more complex remedy. I've actually invested in some barley flavored nerve tonic, something I haven't done since about Christmas time this year.
I think it's time to crack a beer and set this thing aside for an evening!
This is a ProStaff BDC on new low mount Quad Weavers so from what you have said I'll leave it be for the time being. If I don't manage to pull the groups in tighter with either torque adjustments or the bedding blocks the Nikon goes bye bye.
The A-MAX really performed and let me know the potential of this rifle. The Bushnell scope wasn't dialed to absolute zero at that time, two clicks up and two to the left should have had it on the mark.
If I am correct an A-MAX (definitely a ballistic tip though) is what I took my deer with this year from what looked to be about 90 to 100 yards out. I had never shot this Savage 270 before and that deer dropped without taking a step. I hit high of my mark because the gun (I would guess) is ranged for 200 to 250 yards.
I have Sierra 168 Matchkings coming already and have seen the best accuracy through the Mosin with the Matchkings. From what I have read the 165 and 168s are right in the middle of the preferred bullet weights for the 1 in 10" bore twist in a 22 inch barrel. As well to go to a heavier bullet sounds to make a mess of the meat and my thought is they may wear the bore slightly faster, IMHO anyway.
I've said the same thing with an Elk I hit with a muzzle loaded 295 grain 50 cal. none coated Powerbelt from right at 100 yards. A very experienced hunter told me that we were on a good blood trail and had seen Elk drop with lesser blood trailing. About three miles later the trail went into some brush and trees and just stopped. I'm convinced aliens abducted my Elk!
Edit:
There was a point I meant to make mention of in todays shooting and had forgotten. The first A-MAX I went to cycle into the chamber from the magazine (I loaded 4 rounds into the magazine without loading one in the chamber) bound up when the bolt pushed it forward hitting the tip and likely flawed the bullets flight pattern. It hit three inches off the mark.
After that I took a quick assessment of the possibility of the o-ring I installed causing this. I found that there is a place somewhere between (just about right in the middle) the bolt contacting the magazine and the sloppy loose position of the magazine where the rounds do cycle without issues.
It seems every time I put my hands on this rifle there is something else that comes to light as an issue and as time goes on (it's only been a week today!) these issues are demanding a more complex remedy. I've actually invested in some barley flavored nerve tonic, something I haven't done since about Christmas time this year.
I think it's time to crack a beer and set this thing aside for an evening!
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Wylie1
Member
Maybe it was the beer.
I'm not sure if it was the beer or common sense that got to me about 10 minutes in on milling the aluminum but I think my marbles rattled loose at the range or something. Trying to mill the aluminum wasn't the best idea I've had this week!
I pulled the old JB Kwik deodorant stick trick and got bedded up in no time at all. That Devcon plastic steel is some solid stuff but spooks me, JB Kwik is sooooo much easier to work with!
Likely not the best you've ever seen but it could have been a lot worse. The action has been pulled, cleaned, oiled and bolted back down again. I had some bubbles trying to mess with me, hopefully this will smash them back down.
I guess I could have got a picture but most the of the plastic support material in the area where I was going to put the bedding blocks was removed. I goofed on one of the screw's sleeves so I had to turn a piece of aluminum for the initial bedding, I didn't want to have too much shrinkage doing everything in one fill. I'm not even sure if I want to do a skim coat yet, I'll just have to see how this turns out.
I have an unused package of the Brownells glass kit but figure this may be good enough. On second thought, I am going to do a skim coat.
I'm not sure if it was the beer or common sense that got to me about 10 minutes in on milling the aluminum but I think my marbles rattled loose at the range or something. Trying to mill the aluminum wasn't the best idea I've had this week!
I pulled the old JB Kwik deodorant stick trick and got bedded up in no time at all. That Devcon plastic steel is some solid stuff but spooks me, JB Kwik is sooooo much easier to work with!
Likely not the best you've ever seen but it could have been a lot worse. The action has been pulled, cleaned, oiled and bolted back down again. I had some bubbles trying to mess with me, hopefully this will smash them back down.
I guess I could have got a picture but most the of the plastic support material in the area where I was going to put the bedding blocks was removed. I goofed on one of the screw's sleeves so I had to turn a piece of aluminum for the initial bedding, I didn't want to have too much shrinkage doing everything in one fill. I'm not even sure if I want to do a skim coat yet, I'll just have to see how this turns out.
I have an unused package of the Brownells glass kit but figure this may be good enough. On second thought, I am going to do a skim coat.
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Wylie1
Member
Time to ask for some help!
Over on the Firing Line Forum there was someone who had stripped out the threads on a Remington 770 and it seems I am at the last of mine.
At the point where this rifle was it's most accurate I had used a single hex wrench to tighten the screw that is threaded into the barrel and torqued on it pretty hard. Keeping this in mind I have been tightening this screw real tight as well as the other two.
I lost what looked to be three threads this morning but managed to heat the retention ring for the barrel screw while trying to drill for some more depth for the screw. It sank in some and remained hot long enough to get it to sink in a little more with use of the screw. It is secure now but I don't want to mess with this screw much until I do something with it.
I'm thinking of running a nut up on the screw, inserting the screw into the threaded hole, turning the nut down onto the barrel and then welding it in place. What should I know in order to do this? Tack it? run a bead all the way around? Mig, tig, oxygen depleted? I don't know very much at all about welding and less about welding on gun barrels so any information you may be able to supply would be of great help.
Over on the Firing Line Forum there was someone who had stripped out the threads on a Remington 770 and it seems I am at the last of mine.
At the point where this rifle was it's most accurate I had used a single hex wrench to tighten the screw that is threaded into the barrel and torqued on it pretty hard. Keeping this in mind I have been tightening this screw real tight as well as the other two.
I lost what looked to be three threads this morning but managed to heat the retention ring for the barrel screw while trying to drill for some more depth for the screw. It sank in some and remained hot long enough to get it to sink in a little more with use of the screw. It is secure now but I don't want to mess with this screw much until I do something with it.
I'm thinking of running a nut up on the screw, inserting the screw into the threaded hole, turning the nut down onto the barrel and then welding it in place. What should I know in order to do this? Tack it? run a bead all the way around? Mig, tig, oxygen depleted? I don't know very much at all about welding and less about welding on gun barrels so any information you may be able to supply would be of great help.
Coal Dragger
member
If you weld on that barrel you will likely ruin the heat treatment of the steel, creating a dangerous and unsafe weapon. I have heard of this type of thing being done to weld up the lugs on a 1911 barrel for fitting, but almost no one does it anymore since over sized match barrels are readily available. Also keep in mind a pistol barrel is a very different animal than a rifle barrel in the kind of pressures it is going to see. Huge difference between 15,000 PSI and 60,000 PSI.
Have you ever considered maybe not messing about with this rifle other than smoothing up the action just a smidge? Well no matter, you've pretty much voided any warranty you might have had, so you way as well try to do what you can with it. Your obsession with tinkering may get you burned pretty badly on this one, some things are just better left alone....
Have you ever considered maybe not messing about with this rifle other than smoothing up the action just a smidge? Well no matter, you've pretty much voided any warranty you might have had, so you way as well try to do what you can with it. Your obsession with tinkering may get you burned pretty badly on this one, some things are just better left alone....
Wylie1
Member
Thanks I was wondering if the metal might be effected by way of welding.
I have already done what I can with the action and other then my last trip to the range it seems to be smoothing some as it is used.
Messing about as you call it has brought this rifle from something I wouldn't consider hunting with to something I'm getting close to being able to make a good long shots with. Besides that I feel it is now a more stable trustworthy fire arm outside of this threaded hole under the barrel.
I don't know how much of this thread you have read but what broken parts would be sent back to Remington would only be replaced with the same product that malfunctioned in the first place.
As far as the barrel goes, in sending it back I loose all that has been put into the barrel in the way of break in rounds (200 of them) and all of the cleaning supplies involved which equals about half the expense of the rifle barring shipping of the barrel.
I have already done what I can with the action and other then my last trip to the range it seems to be smoothing some as it is used.
Messing about as you call it has brought this rifle from something I wouldn't consider hunting with to something I'm getting close to being able to make a good long shots with. Besides that I feel it is now a more stable trustworthy fire arm outside of this threaded hole under the barrel.
I don't know how much of this thread you have read but what broken parts would be sent back to Remington would only be replaced with the same product that malfunctioned in the first place.
As far as the barrel goes, in sending it back I loose all that has been put into the barrel in the way of break in rounds (200 of them) and all of the cleaning supplies involved which equals about half the expense of the rifle barring shipping of the barrel.
NCsmitty
Member
First off, don't go welding on your rifle, as you may be able to drill and tap the bad screw hole to a larger size. Try to avoid breaking down your action/stock assembly so much, as I think it will be fine with the mods that you have done.
NCsmitty
NCsmitty
Craigman
Member
google - HELICOIL. stainless thread insert. works wonders and is easy to use. just drill your threads out, then re-tap with a helicoil tap then screw the new stainless threads in place. they come in different length sizes and can usually be found at auto part stores or farm supply.
Wylie1
Member
NCsmitty,
No I'm not going to be welding on any rifle after reading what I have on the internet and the replies I have got here.
This is right at the chamber were the screw is stripping. I wouldn't want to through drill that? I don't even see how they tapped this hole because it is so shallow. It would take a seriously short tapered bottom tap the like of which I never seen.
I do like the idea for more surface area retention although to get to this hole the screw has to go through the stock where there is a seriously hard piece of metal. A Blue Mole drill bit hardly scratches this stuff.
This should the last thing I plan to do with the rifle other then fill my freezer and out shoot some friends with a cheap rifle.
Craigman,
I'm not really a big fan of Helicoils, I've personally had them come out with bolts in the past.
No I'm not going to be welding on any rifle after reading what I have on the internet and the replies I have got here.
This is right at the chamber were the screw is stripping. I wouldn't want to through drill that? I don't even see how they tapped this hole because it is so shallow. It would take a seriously short tapered bottom tap the like of which I never seen.
I do like the idea for more surface area retention although to get to this hole the screw has to go through the stock where there is a seriously hard piece of metal. A Blue Mole drill bit hardly scratches this stuff.
This should the last thing I plan to do with the rifle other then fill my freezer and out shoot some friends with a cheap rifle.
Craigman,
I'm not really a big fan of Helicoils, I've personally had them come out with bolts in the past.
snake284
Member
I don't know much about the 770 except that a friend bought one in .300 Win. Mag. He says it's reasonably accurate and loves to hunt with it. However, one thing I saw about it, made me question weather I would want one. The barrel is pinned into the action. Now, I really have no problem with this technology as far as strength ,except I would want to know if a new barrel can be put on should the original barrel go south some day and how would this be done? Of another barrel could be simply pressed and pinned in place, could a Local Gun Smith do this, or would you have to send it in to Remington? This would limit your choices where you may want a bull barrel, a varmint barrel, or a stainless one. Would it limit your choices? Also can the action be threaded for a more standard method of barreling? Is there enough metal on the front of the receiver to thread it inside to accept a more standard type barrel? These are my questions and if the answers are negative, I would pass on purchasing a 770. So what is the deal here?
Well reading this today motivated me to go shoot my .270 770. After tinkering with my soft bedding(just high temp hot glue). Kind of like rubber boots on a motor idea. I only shot four times ballistic silvertips $$. Suprised again 100 yrds. I figured on alot of resighting - nope. --GROUP--Short version with my second shot (probably me)2 1/2 in. Without that oops 7/8in. center to center. (3&4) shot felt the best a little suprised on trigger pull and holes are touching. Ill work on pictures.
Wylie1
Member
Snake,
I would think by the time you get a barrel replaced on a rifle like this you could have bought a new rifle for the same expense. I personally wouldn't have an interest in a bull barrel on a rifle like this, it's a hunting rifle.
The only reason I own this rifle is it was a gift, I wouldn't have spent my money on one and now knowing what I do of this rifle I wouldn't suggest one to anyone I know.
If a great deal on one could be had for a maybe $70 to $90 new and the buyer could do the work I've done themselves I'd still be questionable but consider buying it.
I would imagine the action could be threaded but for what reason I wouldn't know, my 42 Mosin cycles smoother then this rifle. The receiver does look a bit thin for threading IMHO.
The deal here is a mistake made by Remington modeled as the 770 that can be altered into a decent rifle with a dead end future. This is a limited use rifle with a lot of short comings built to compete in the low end rifle market where it is what I would consider to be the bottom of the barrel.
I haven't spent enough time with this rifle to know if the barrel is going to hold consistency after repetitive heating and cooling as I'm with the though my scope selection is a bunch of flawed fodder and I have made a mistake of the lack of thread locker at one point.
The 770 is in my mind a torque sensitive rifle which limits its ability to maintain consistent accuracy after being disassembled and reassembled. It may even be that proper torque applied to the screws in assembling the 770 is too much for the plastic stock to withstand and will cause malfunction with one of the screws contacting the locking lugs on the bolt. This is only a guess as I do not have an inch pound torque wrench, but a pretty good guess IMHO.
DNR,
Okay now I understand about your soft bedding you had told me of. Yeah post up some range pictures and some of your work to your rifle too!
I would think by the time you get a barrel replaced on a rifle like this you could have bought a new rifle for the same expense. I personally wouldn't have an interest in a bull barrel on a rifle like this, it's a hunting rifle.
The only reason I own this rifle is it was a gift, I wouldn't have spent my money on one and now knowing what I do of this rifle I wouldn't suggest one to anyone I know.
If a great deal on one could be had for a maybe $70 to $90 new and the buyer could do the work I've done themselves I'd still be questionable but consider buying it.
I would imagine the action could be threaded but for what reason I wouldn't know, my 42 Mosin cycles smoother then this rifle. The receiver does look a bit thin for threading IMHO.
The deal here is a mistake made by Remington modeled as the 770 that can be altered into a decent rifle with a dead end future. This is a limited use rifle with a lot of short comings built to compete in the low end rifle market where it is what I would consider to be the bottom of the barrel.
I haven't spent enough time with this rifle to know if the barrel is going to hold consistency after repetitive heating and cooling as I'm with the though my scope selection is a bunch of flawed fodder and I have made a mistake of the lack of thread locker at one point.
The 770 is in my mind a torque sensitive rifle which limits its ability to maintain consistent accuracy after being disassembled and reassembled. It may even be that proper torque applied to the screws in assembling the 770 is too much for the plastic stock to withstand and will cause malfunction with one of the screws contacting the locking lugs on the bolt. This is only a guess as I do not have an inch pound torque wrench, but a pretty good guess IMHO.
DNR,
Okay now I understand about your soft bedding you had told me of. Yeah post up some range pictures and some of your work to your rifle too!
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Wylie1
Member
Crappy day for the range!
Besides being windy and chilly at the range today I hadn't eaten right and had an energy drink so I had a bit of a shiver thing going on.
I'm sold on the thought the Barska scope I have is a lost cause and I'll be glad to see the trouble maker go. It was mounted on my 1942 Mosin Nagant for the day and failed miserably. I even used the last of the Mosin's preferred rounds and they hit far from the mark.
As for the Nikon it passed with flying colors holding it's mark true as anyone could ask for. Mounted on the Remington 770 I had question at first as the combination was grouping 2 to 2.5 inches at first from 100 yards. Although I didn't want to do it in fear of stripping out what threads are left under the barrel I gave each screw about a 1/4 turn tightening them. This, the adjustments to zero the scope and the Hornady A-MAXs had the 770 on mark better then the rifle has been set to date.
There were a couple other gentlemen at the range I had been talking with and one was grouping pinky finger sized three shot groups with a very nice AK so I asked if he'd like to take a poke at my target with my .308. He obliged and pulled his first shot a little high and right but the second shot aced a 3/4" bull from 100 yards out. I let the other guy I was speaking with run a round through as well but don't remember how he did. On a day like today this gun was shooting better then I was capable of so it looks like it's time for some type of solid rest or good bags to see just what it can do.
I've reloaded some of the Q3130's brass now but being the conditions I decided not to waste my time and will have to test them later off of a steady rest. I have enough A-MAXs left to finalize what I would like to do with the 770 before I take on matching what I have seen come from the A-MAXs.
With my loads I have matched the OAL of the A-MAXs, used Federal Large Rifle Primers, Sierra Matchking 168 grain bullets and incremented .5 grains from 41 grains to 43 grains, 5 cartridges each other then the 10 42.5 grain rounds I made up, just call it a feeling.
I'm not touching anything in the way of adjustments or fasteners on this rifle for as long as possible!
Besides being windy and chilly at the range today I hadn't eaten right and had an energy drink so I had a bit of a shiver thing going on.
I'm sold on the thought the Barska scope I have is a lost cause and I'll be glad to see the trouble maker go. It was mounted on my 1942 Mosin Nagant for the day and failed miserably. I even used the last of the Mosin's preferred rounds and they hit far from the mark.
As for the Nikon it passed with flying colors holding it's mark true as anyone could ask for. Mounted on the Remington 770 I had question at first as the combination was grouping 2 to 2.5 inches at first from 100 yards. Although I didn't want to do it in fear of stripping out what threads are left under the barrel I gave each screw about a 1/4 turn tightening them. This, the adjustments to zero the scope and the Hornady A-MAXs had the 770 on mark better then the rifle has been set to date.
There were a couple other gentlemen at the range I had been talking with and one was grouping pinky finger sized three shot groups with a very nice AK so I asked if he'd like to take a poke at my target with my .308. He obliged and pulled his first shot a little high and right but the second shot aced a 3/4" bull from 100 yards out. I let the other guy I was speaking with run a round through as well but don't remember how he did. On a day like today this gun was shooting better then I was capable of so it looks like it's time for some type of solid rest or good bags to see just what it can do.
I've reloaded some of the Q3130's brass now but being the conditions I decided not to waste my time and will have to test them later off of a steady rest. I have enough A-MAXs left to finalize what I would like to do with the 770 before I take on matching what I have seen come from the A-MAXs.
With my loads I have matched the OAL of the A-MAXs, used Federal Large Rifle Primers, Sierra Matchking 168 grain bullets and incremented .5 grains from 41 grains to 43 grains, 5 cartridges each other then the 10 42.5 grain rounds I made up, just call it a feeling.
I'm not touching anything in the way of adjustments or fasteners on this rifle for as long as possible!
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Wylie1
Member
The next trip to the range the rifle lost the torque I had set it at so it was back to goofing around again.
I removed the screw retainer from the stock for the barrel screw so I can now utilize all of the threads in the barrel, not so fearful of stripping anymore threads now! I also removed the retainer I installed in the stock for the screw next to the magazine. I did the same as I have done with my muzzle loader milling out hex screws and using them as pillar bedding which turned out well but still has to be seen at the range.
A 0-60 inch/pound torque wrench is on the way as well as 1000 Federal 210M primers, cases are tumbling at the moment and this mission continues.
I removed the screw retainer from the stock for the barrel screw so I can now utilize all of the threads in the barrel, not so fearful of stripping anymore threads now! I also removed the retainer I installed in the stock for the screw next to the magazine. I did the same as I have done with my muzzle loader milling out hex screws and using them as pillar bedding which turned out well but still has to be seen at the range.
A 0-60 inch/pound torque wrench is on the way as well as 1000 Federal 210M primers, cases are tumbling at the moment and this mission continues.
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Wylie1
Member
For any of you that might be following this thread here is a link to a post that is related to the work I'm doing to this rifle.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7226726&postcount=30
Although I am a bit convoluted and scattered with this post the link below will help understand how I pillar bedded the 770s stock. I removed the retainer for the barrel's screw by turning the hex head screw/pillar in from the barrel's side of the stock which pressed this retainer out of the stock. This allowed for more threads to be grabbed by the screw and far less fear of stripping anymore threads out of the barrel.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7184873&postcount=23
The pillar bedding stands about .001" above the bedding and the hardest part was the contour of the barrel mating to the pillar bedding but it seems I have done well. In the pictures in the first link above you'll notice the 42.5 grain load's POI lowers as the .014 thickness brass begins to heat. This was a test as I did send those rounds through the rifle a bit quicker to heat the barrel. It went off just as I expected. The reasoning for the brass plates is to create a little spring like tension against the screws threads and it seems to work to hold torque setting on the screw much better then the rifle has done to date. If this was any form of rapid fire type rifle I wouldn't have considered this type of application for reasons of bullet POI dropping like it does once the barrel heats the brass.
At the block under the forward piece of brass there is a narrow application of Plummer's Weld Epoxy, kind of a rubbery epoxy with a bit of give as well as a narrow application toward the forward edge under the rear piece of brass.
Okay go ahead and laugh at me now or call me Bubba, I don't care this worked well and I'll see how it does over time but I think I'm sold. Looking at the targets again and thinking about it I'm going to shave a hair off of the right side of the forward piece of brass as it looks like POI settles to the right as the brass heats up.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7226726&postcount=30
Although I am a bit convoluted and scattered with this post the link below will help understand how I pillar bedded the 770s stock. I removed the retainer for the barrel's screw by turning the hex head screw/pillar in from the barrel's side of the stock which pressed this retainer out of the stock. This allowed for more threads to be grabbed by the screw and far less fear of stripping anymore threads out of the barrel.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7184873&postcount=23
The pillar bedding stands about .001" above the bedding and the hardest part was the contour of the barrel mating to the pillar bedding but it seems I have done well. In the pictures in the first link above you'll notice the 42.5 grain load's POI lowers as the .014 thickness brass begins to heat. This was a test as I did send those rounds through the rifle a bit quicker to heat the barrel. It went off just as I expected. The reasoning for the brass plates is to create a little spring like tension against the screws threads and it seems to work to hold torque setting on the screw much better then the rifle has done to date. If this was any form of rapid fire type rifle I wouldn't have considered this type of application for reasons of bullet POI dropping like it does once the barrel heats the brass.
At the block under the forward piece of brass there is a narrow application of Plummer's Weld Epoxy, kind of a rubbery epoxy with a bit of give as well as a narrow application toward the forward edge under the rear piece of brass.
Okay go ahead and laugh at me now or call me Bubba, I don't care this worked well and I'll see how it does over time but I think I'm sold. Looking at the targets again and thinking about it I'm going to shave a hair off of the right side of the forward piece of brass as it looks like POI settles to the right as the brass heats up.
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Wylie1
Member
Can you say 35 inch pounds of torque?
I knew you could and it seems to be where the magic starts to play out with the 770 or at least the way I have mine set up. Now I have to work in .5 inch pounds of torque in either direction and see what happens.
It was a little cold for the range at 32 to 34 degrees while I was shooting today but that just meant I had the range all to myself and could set up all of my targets at the same time. I went through the rounds fairly quickly today and seen far less effect from the heating of the barrel. I'm thinking what I had seen in the past and thought was the barrel heating was the torque loosening.
By the time I had shot four five round sets starting from 40.5 grains of IMR 4895 increasing by .2 grains each set I seen that the magic was going away. The last 2 sets of five I shot at 200 yards and have to get to know my BDC reticle better because they were about four inches low but didn't group too badly.
The best loads were 40.9 grains of IMR4895, Winchester 7.62 x 51 brass, Federal 210m primers, 168 grain Sierra MatchKing bullets in stainless steel washed cases. One thing I botched with my loads was I didn't chamfer the cases before I seated the bullets so I see potential for accuracy gain in that aspect.
Looks like thing are going the right direction. These targets were shot from 100 yards off bags on a bench. If this thing starts shooting much better it may be better than I am.
I knew you could and it seems to be where the magic starts to play out with the 770 or at least the way I have mine set up. Now I have to work in .5 inch pounds of torque in either direction and see what happens.
It was a little cold for the range at 32 to 34 degrees while I was shooting today but that just meant I had the range all to myself and could set up all of my targets at the same time. I went through the rounds fairly quickly today and seen far less effect from the heating of the barrel. I'm thinking what I had seen in the past and thought was the barrel heating was the torque loosening.
By the time I had shot four five round sets starting from 40.5 grains of IMR 4895 increasing by .2 grains each set I seen that the magic was going away. The last 2 sets of five I shot at 200 yards and have to get to know my BDC reticle better because they were about four inches low but didn't group too badly.
The best loads were 40.9 grains of IMR4895, Winchester 7.62 x 51 brass, Federal 210m primers, 168 grain Sierra MatchKing bullets in stainless steel washed cases. One thing I botched with my loads was I didn't chamfer the cases before I seated the bullets so I see potential for accuracy gain in that aspect.
Looks like thing are going the right direction. These targets were shot from 100 yards off bags on a bench. If this thing starts shooting much better it may be better than I am.
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Just from my personal experience, my 3-9x40 Prostaff BDC is almost perfectly calibrated with my 308 loads. I just found the load that was the most accurate, and started changing the magnification to adjust with the drop. 8x is the ideal magnification for my gun. All of my shots stay "in the bubble" out to 350 yards.
My loads are Hornady cases, CCI LR primers, and 43 grains of IMR 4064 under a 165 Gameking. All of that is out of a 24" tube though. So, you may want to start around 8x and fiddle with it until you get it figured out.
You may want to look into powder/temperature sensitivity. I wouldn't have believed it had I not played around with it myself. My loads with 4064 will change POI in different temperatures. In the summer, It will be dead on at 100 yards. The exact same load in winter will drop 2" at 100 yards. It is the same size group, just 2" south of the bull. It doesn't bother me much at all. I just make the adjustment on the scope when the temps start to change.
My loads are Hornady cases, CCI LR primers, and 43 grains of IMR 4064 under a 165 Gameking. All of that is out of a 24" tube though. So, you may want to start around 8x and fiddle with it until you get it figured out.
You may want to look into powder/temperature sensitivity. I wouldn't have believed it had I not played around with it myself. My loads with 4064 will change POI in different temperatures. In the summer, It will be dead on at 100 yards. The exact same load in winter will drop 2" at 100 yards. It is the same size group, just 2" south of the bull. It doesn't bother me much at all. I just make the adjustment on the scope when the temps start to change.
Wylie1
Member
I have thought about this and it looks like I might be center of the first circle under the cross hairs at 200 yards. My POI was 4 to 5 inches low at 200 yards using what I gathered from Nikon's web site. My guess on the Nikon web site calculator told me to use the top of this circle although it was for 212 yards. As long as I can see the target without the circles getting in the way of the POI I'm all good. This is one unfavorable thing I have found with the BDC reticle, not having a good visual on POI at all ranges. I did play with that calculator a bunch but it seemed redundant not knowing all the factors involved with a correct calculation.
I do hear you with the temperature range on the powders! This has been on my mind all along while reloading for the 770 and I still haven't had the time to find the information as to what temperature may do to the imr4895. I watched that video in the longest confirmed kill is where the thought came from. I may have a 100 degree difference from the targets shot above to when I go deer hunting and that's just if it's in the mid-seventies. All but the last two weeks of this last deer season was in that temperature range and higher at the beginning and dropped drastically the last two weekends of the hunt season. I'm trying to pay attention to the temperatures and how it effects POI. A very good point and thank you for bring it up.
One thing I haven't taken into account is shooting position in relation to what type of powder is used. Some are more stable than others when this is taken into account as well.
I do hear you with the temperature range on the powders! This has been on my mind all along while reloading for the 770 and I still haven't had the time to find the information as to what temperature may do to the imr4895. I watched that video in the longest confirmed kill is where the thought came from. I may have a 100 degree difference from the targets shot above to when I go deer hunting and that's just if it's in the mid-seventies. All but the last two weeks of this last deer season was in that temperature range and higher at the beginning and dropped drastically the last two weekends of the hunt season. I'm trying to pay attention to the temperatures and how it effects POI. A very good point and thank you for bring it up.
One thing I haven't taken into account is shooting position in relation to what type of powder is used. Some are more stable than others when this is taken into account as well.
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NCsmitty
Member
You'll find that many of the older IMR powders, and that includes IMR4064 and IMR4895, are susceptible to temperature extremes. A near maximum load developed in the warm temperatures of summer often shows a marked decrease in velocity and a different POI in sub freezing temperatures. However, that does not usually constitute a safety concern.
The big problem can occur if a near max load is developed in the cold weather and then shot in hot temperatures. That alone can possibly raise pressures to dangerous levels, and give erratic accuracy.
And I never leave my ammo sitting in the summer sun, regardless of the powder that I am using.
Powder manufacturer's seem to be addressing the temperature sensitivity of their powders more the past few years, and I use Hodgdon powders more than others for that reason.
NCsmitty
The big problem can occur if a near max load is developed in the cold weather and then shot in hot temperatures. That alone can possibly raise pressures to dangerous levels, and give erratic accuracy.
And I never leave my ammo sitting in the summer sun, regardless of the powder that I am using.
Powder manufacturer's seem to be addressing the temperature sensitivity of their powders more the past few years, and I use Hodgdon powders more than others for that reason.
NCsmitty
Wylie1
Member
It was a bit windy here today for shooting, it should have been for motorcycles too but I was wrenching so I was riding, it's like a rule or something.
I looked around a little while last night and only found one post mentioning the IMR isn't as temperature stable as the Hodgdons, I'll just stick with the IMR and see how it changes.
The other day at the range I brought along my Mosin and racked a bunch of rounds through it sighting a scope in. Pretty much a waste of time though the eye relief was scary with the recoil of the Mosin and did smack my glasses once. The rifle got warm enough that cartridges just sitting in the rifle for any mount of time made a difference in the recoil and POI. I used Hodgden 4350 in those loads.
I looked around a little while last night and only found one post mentioning the IMR isn't as temperature stable as the Hodgdons, I'll just stick with the IMR and see how it changes.
The other day at the range I brought along my Mosin and racked a bunch of rounds through it sighting a scope in. Pretty much a waste of time though the eye relief was scary with the recoil of the Mosin and did smack my glasses once. The rifle got warm enough that cartridges just sitting in the rifle for any mount of time made a difference in the recoil and POI. I used Hodgden 4350 in those loads.
I have been wanting to try some Varget. It is supposed to be temperature insensitive and very versatile. Like I said earlier though, once I figured the 4064's performance at different temps, I don't even worry about it anymore. I make two adjustments on my scope a year and that covers me for summer shooting and winter shooting.
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