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Remington Model 1863 Zouave rifle repro- side lock teardown help needed

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Brutuskend

Brutuskend

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Hi, I have had this rifle for some time now and the trigger pull is insane! I bet it is got to be in the 30lb range!
So I finely decided to deal with it today and stopped by the local BP shop for a few pointers on how best to lighten the pull.
One thing I didn't ask about however was how to completely disassemble the side lock so I could get access to the area that needed to be worked on. I got it mostly tore down, but not disassembled far enough to gain complete access to the area I need to get to.
I have looked on the interweb for tutorials on this task but alas, so far no luck. Can anyone point me to a place with good step by step instructions on tearing one of these bad boys down, or maybe give me instructions on how to do this? I filed and stoned the thingy with it still partially assembled, but no love, I guess I will need to COMPLETELY tear it down for any work I do to have much of any effect.
TIA
 
First this, purchase a mainspring vise. It is money well spent and saves having to buy a new, hard to find, mainspring.

https://logcabinshop.com/oc30/index...oduct&product_id=24436&search=Mainspring+vise

Next, find some books or online tutorials about tuning sidelocks. It is not nearly as simple as it sounds if you want it done correctly. It is not just making all the parts shiny.


Good luck, it isn’t hard to do but it is a lot of fun.

Kevin
 
1. Visegrips/strip of leather padding makes an effective springvise.
2. Be very careful that you don't modify things you can't 'un'modify in whatever/whenever you begin removing metal.
3. Disassemble/clean/lubricate everything before doing anything else
4. Finally, read this article about ten times before doing anything beyond #3: http://www.nwtskirmisher.com/useful-locks.shtml
 
Small vise grips, or a small C-clamp will work. But a real mainspring vise is "best". Once you get the mainspring out, it should be logical and simple to completely disassemble the lock.

The angle of the sear surfaces will have everything to do with the trigger pull. In some of these rifles the trigger has to actually cam the hammer back before it can release. (I have two Japanese versions of this rifle) So you really have to have a complete understanding of the angles of the sear surfaces. If not, you will wind up with a hammer that can fall by it's self, or be pushed off the sear at full cock. As stated, just making the surfaces shiny may not help much.

It may be best to send the lock to an experienced gunsmith to do the work. I bet Jack Rabbit could do it, and possibly Mike does such work. ?

Good luck!!!
 
Thanks for the mention Ugly Sauce, I did repair a lock for a guy a while back. I don't believe Goon does that type of work, he keeps telling me he's strictly a tuner. If the OP would like more info please send me a PM and we can go from there.
 
This has nothing to do with anything, but my 1861 Springfield has a very heavy trigger pull. Clean, but heavy. I shoot that rifle using my middle finger instead of my trigger finger, and that makes the pull very manageable. Not a solution for most people, but works for me and I don't want to mess with that lock as it's one of the most crisp and solid locks I've ever encountered. Not gonna mess with it or mess it up. And it's certainly not going to go off "accidently" or prematurely. She's kind of "safe" on full cock!

Aside from that heavy trigger pulls have never bothered me much. However OP, I understand, way too heavy is unacceptable.
 
Brutuskend said:
Hi, I have had this rifle for some time now and the trigger pull is insane! I bet it is got to be in the 30lb range!
So I finely decided to deal with it today and stopped by the local BP shop for a few pointers on how best to lighten the pull.
One thing I didn't ask about however was how to completely disassemble the side lock so I could get access to the area that needed to be worked on. I got it mostly tore down, but not disassembled far enough to gain complete access to the area I need to get to.
I have looked on the interweb for tutorials on this task but alas, so far no luck. Can anyone point me to a place with good step by step instructions on tearing one of these bad boys down, or maybe give me instructions on how to do this? I filed and stoned the thingy with it still partially assembled, but no love, I guess I will need to COMPLETELY tear it down for any work I do to have much of any effect.
TIA
Click to expand...
Honestly, I'd go to the N-SSA BB, ask about a good gunsmith.
 
I actually just got this torn down and was going to check if I had any responses to my thread of yesterday. Thanks for all of the responses!
I am pretty sure I can deal with it from here, but if, or when I screw it up I may be back for more input! ;)
Basically the rear notch in the sear needs to be squared up. Also the smith I spoke to at the GUN WORKS in Springfield said some folks "take a little off the top" my words, not his. Which makes it so the catch doesn't have to travel as far down the face of the sear. Once again, my words, not his. I don't have a firm grip on all the terminology for the parts names yet, so you will excuse me on that point I hope. ;)
Any way, I will post an update as to how my efforts pan out if anyone cares. ;)
Thanks again!
 
Ugly Sauce said:
Small vise grips, or a small C-clamp will work. But a real mainspring vise is "best". Once you get the mainspring out, it should be logical and simple to completely disassemble the lock.

The angle of the sear surfaces will have everything to do with the trigger pull. In some of these rifles the trigger has to actually cam the hammer back before it can release. (I have two Japanese versions of this rifle) So you really have to have a complete understanding of the angles of the sear surfaces. If not, you will wind up with a hammer that can fall by it's self, or be pushed off the sear at full cock. As stated, just making the surfaces shiny may not help much.

It may be best to send the lock to an experienced gunsmith to do the work. I bet Jack Rabbit could do it, and possibly Mike does such work. ?

Good luck!!!
Click to expand...

That is what the smith I spoke with said was happening with mine. Because the face of the sear wasn't square, it was forcing the hammer back when I pulled the trigger, adding to the overall trigger pull. So he said I should square the face off and that should help. At this point he added the info about shaving a bit off the top of the sear which would shorten the overall travel. So these will be my next steps going forward.
Also, since I'm in there, I'm going to go ahead and smooth up, polish, and re blue all the mating surfaces in there.
 
Yes, that is all correct. The sear and sear notch have to be "square". Otherwise the sear is camming the hammer back, or visa-versa, it will slide off the notch with any pressure on the hammer, which you have figured out. Well you have some delicate work ahead!!! On my 1861, I am fortunate that the sear is "square", which is another reason I'm not messing with it. And it's probably just a 10-12 pound pull. 15-20-30 pounds would be insane.

Absolutely polish everything to a mirror finish. A smooth crisp pull is as important as the actual poundage. Or, the smoother everything is, the lighter it will feel.

One thing on making overall travel shorter, be careful as that "could", possibly interfere with the sear catching in the half cock notch. Just something to think about. In the past, I have drilled a small hole in the tumbler, kind of "behind" the full cock notch, then put in a brass pin, which took up some travel without the danger of the sear catching in the half-cock. Kind of the same thing as taking "off the top" of the sear, but from a different direction? But that is the best that I can explain it.
 
I got it fixed!
Pull is probably less than half of what it was.
Only real problem I ran across was at first the hammer didn't always want to release all the way unless you made sure you REALLY pulled the trigger all the way back rather forcibly. It felt like the trigger was catching on the half cock stop but if you pulled the trigger harder, it would release.
Come to find out that the hammer was seated further down on the post it mounts to and the base of the hammer was slightly catching on the end of the one of the screws that mount the lock to the stock of the rifle. I took the hammer off and added a thin washer under it and that solved the issue!
Rifle seems to work like a champ now, and it doesn't feel like I am going to dislocate my finger anymore when I fire it!
 
Congrats. That was some fast work. It would be interesting to know more about this rifle. As mentioned, I have two Japanese replica Model 1863 Contract rifles, both have "lumpy" bores, but otherwise are pretty decent rifles. One is cut down into a half-stock carbine, which I call the "Short Snorter". Recently I went crazy on it with brass tacks. It shoots okay. The other one is in original configuration, but the bore is badly machined, and there is NO half cock, and I just haven't had the time or inclination to fix that.

Anyhow, good job. You done well pilgrim!
 
Ugly Sauce said:
Congrats. That was some fast work. It would be interesting to know more about this rifle. As mentioned, I have two Japanese replica Model 1863 Contract rifles, both have "lumpy" bores, but otherwise are pretty decent rifles. One is cut down into a half-stock carbine, which I call the "Short Snorter". Recently I went crazy on it with brass tacks. It shoots okay. The other one is in original configuration, but the bore is badly machined, and there is NO half cock, and I just haven't had the time or inclination to fix that.

Anyhow, good job. You done well pilgrim!
Click to expand...
 
Rifle was imported by navy arms and made by Antonio Zoli, not sure when it was built but I am thinking some time in the 60's.
I bought it through proxibid a bit over a year ago or so.

I posted pics back when I first got it.
Try here?

thehighroad


oops, that did't work.

I know I have a post on here with pics from back then. Not quite sure how to find it however....

Found my old post about the rifle.
It was made in 1971. The year I went into the Marines
 
Last edited:
Okay, it's a Zoli. Cool, nice rifle. Yep, wish I one of them instead of the Miroku's I have.
 
They are both very early production, both have three-digit serial numbers. (only eleven #'s apart) When the barrels were bored, it seems that the reamer or boring bar (?) had a lot of stops and starts, so the bore is "lumpy". The rifling is cut nice, but again, the lands or bore is lumpy, you can see the chatter. Both rifles exhibit the same chatter and lumps. ! Otherwise, fit and finish, and the furniture is fine. I think they are some of the first rifles/firearms they made.
 
I've thought about it. The one, my half-stock carbine I think would be better off smooth bored out as far as he would dare. If I had the bucks, and one of these days when I do, (I'm not dirt-poor, have plenty of assets, but just don't have much cash to work with these days) what I really want to do is send the barrel of my Armi-Sport 1861 to him, and have him bore it out just enough to remove the mini' ball shallow three groove rifling, and then re-rifle it with a good deep round ball rifling, as I have no interest in shooting mini' balls over powder-puff charges. I really don't think I'd spend any money on the two Miroku's, just would not be worth it. My 1861 set up to shoot round ball over heavy hunting charges however...priceless!!
DSC07207.JPG
 
Bac
StrawHat said:
Miroku has made excellent rifles since forever. What is the problem with yours?


Kevin
Click to expand...

Back in the day Miroku would make whatever the customer wanted. If the customer wanted high end pieces that's what they got. If the customer wanted cheap junk that's what they got. There were a lot of crap guns coming out of Miroku in the 60's and 70's.


Ugly Sauce said:
I've thought about it. The one, my half-stock carbine I think would be better off smooth bored out as far as he would dare. If I had the bucks, and one of these days when I do, (I'm not dirt-poor, have plenty of assets, but just don't have much cash to work with these days) what I really want to do is send the barrel of my Armi-Sport 1861 to him, and have him bore it out just enough to remove the mini' ball shallow three groove rifling, and then re-rifle it with a good deep round ball rifling, as I have no interest in shooting mini' balls over powder-puff charges. I really don't think I'd spend any money on the two Miroku's, just would not be worth it. My 1861 set up to shoot round ball over heavy hunting charges however...priceless!!
View attachment 1100686
Click to expand...

Why would you have to shoot minie balls with powder puff charges?
 
About "powder puff" charges. 45g 3f Swiss is hardly a "powder puff" charge. It's about the equivalent of 55g 2f Goex. The minie was designed to operate in a pressure range, too little and accuracy is gone, too much and ditto and that's regardless of your macho opinion on charge levels.
 
dave951 said:
that's regardless of your macho opinion on charge levels.
Click to expand...

Geeeze Dave. "Macho Opinion"?? "Regardless"? Did I deserve that? Perhaps I'm being thinned-skinned. I hunt in a Grizzly recovery area, GMU113 in Washington state. Somewhat recently a real Alaska size Monster was tagged in the area, and I've come across monster sized tracks. Rather than "macho", I'm a bit of a scardy-cat, perhaps even a coward when it comes to grizz, and really feel better with the rifle loaded more powerful than the standard service charge. I do realize the service charges, (sorry to offend you by calling them powder-puff) or less, are capable of dropping deer and elk quite well. (or horses) If I am ever faced with trying to stop a hostile grizzly bear with one shot, I would just feel better with a powder charge in the 100 grain range. Could one be too "macho" facing a grizz? My 1861 is a hunting rifle, not a target shooter or re-enactor rifle. Nothing wrong with that, but that's not what it is.

Having said all that, I usually hunt with my .62" Jeager, loaded heavy, so perhaps the point is moot, but I do like to take the '61 out once in a while. I'm just not "comfortable" with a light load, it's not a macho thing. It's a confidence thing, regardless of what the rifle was designed for.
 
I gotta give ya credit on that one Ugly, I haven't figured out if if you're incredibly bold or just have a pair of great big brass ones. I personally wouldn't go out in an area like that packing just a muzzleloader. I know that lots of frontiersmen did it when those weapons were all that was available. I just hope you don't end up as bear scat on the trail on some steep mountain slope. I would miss your posts.
 
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