Remington Ruger comparison

[Southmountain]

There is a lively discussion on Remington/Remarms going on in this forum, and the latest posts are starting to rehash the endless Walker trigger debate. In this context, I think a compare & contrast with Remington and Ruger is in order. I've seen these discussed in parallel but never in conjunction. I hope this is useful. Here we go:

I: Remington was light years ahead of Ruger in the PR department

Remember Remington's ad? Probably my favorite ever. "Remington 700. Attention politicians: with over 5 million sold, the world's largest army ain't in China." Genius marketing.

Meanwhile, Bill Ruger goes on record to say the most spectacularly awful and slanderous things about people like me. "No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun." Telling legislators that I cannot be trusted with a firearm, directly (IMO) facilitating the assault weapons ban of 1994. Ruger cashes in in the form of good will at the expense of the firearms industry. Is it totally unrelated that Ruger now is the most powerful, largest gunmaker in the US? Tell me there is zero correlation.

I don't know how people get over this in a lifetime. I haven't, I have never bought anything from Ruger. The only Ruger we have is an old 77/22 my wife inherited. If it gets trashed, I could care less.

The fact that Ruger is associated with the 603 area code is the political equivalent of Antiochus IV sacrificing a pig in the holy temple, sickens me to this day.

II: Nonetheless, Ruger's actions speak LOUDER than Remington's words

And yet, despite all of their differences in rhetoric, their actions regarding firearm safety could not be more different.

Ruger's M77 rifles ALSO fired unexpectedly. "Ruger has learned that the trigger overtravel adjustment set screw in a few of its M77® bolt action rifles manufactured between 1968 and 1991 may not be securely tightened and may move too readily. This change in original adjustment can, in extreme cases, either cause the rifle to fire unexpectedly (with the safety "off") or cause the rifle to not fire at all. This may occur suddenly and without warning."

The difference is, Ruger admitted to this and issued a product recall. To this day, there has been minimal press coverage of the issue.

I can't see a more stark contrast between Ruger's response and Remington's response regarding the Walker trigger. Up to the death of the company, Remington never admitted fault with the trigger.

The M700 and M77 were direct competitors.

I've scanned through thousands of pages of documentation on the Walker trigger. Yes, the Marxist & globalist media has overblown it, as it is fecund currency for their agenda. But at the core, I cannot deny that something is there. This entire controversy was not birthed from complete fallacy.

And as long as something is there, I'd say the differences in Remington's vs Ruger's outward rhetoric highlights the internal hypocrisy even more.

 

[LoonWulf]

Bill Ruger goes on record to say the most spectacularly awful and slanderous things about people like me. "No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun." Telling legislators that I cannot be trusted with a firearm, directly (IMO) facilitating the assault weapons ban of 1994. Ruger cashes in in the form of good will at the expense of the firearms industry. Is it totally unrelated that Ruger now is the most powerful, largest gunmaker in the US? Tell me there is zero correlation.

If that was his honest opinion....i can respect that. As i can respect peoples choice to not support a company owned/run by a person who holds that opinion.

I also dont believe Rugers company stance on mag capacity etc, changed untill after Bill Rugers time.



But again my information is simply what I've read and been told.

 

[dranrab]

There are parallels in their respective approaches to QC. Both are subject to all too frequent QC lapses.

 

[greyling22]

well, ruger is not without faults, but I received the most spectacular customer service one time and that has bought them a lot of goodwill for me. [basically I sent them a half a pistol one time and they built a new one around it for nothing)

I do miss the old remington. the wingmaster and the 1100 were just fabulous beautiful guns.

 

[Mauser fan]

That is definitely the case. It 's just like the automotive industry is today and many years past. No doubt there are Ford, Dodge and Chevrolet
Fans who share similarly strong opinions about one manufacturer or another.

There are parallels in their respective approaches to QC. Both are subject to all too frequent QC lapses.

 

[mshootnit]

In the early 90s I would have said, out of the box, a 700 BDL or Classic would most likely out shoot a Ruger M77. At the time Rem 700 barrels, and adjustable triggers were superior.
You could make a 77 shoot with some sandpaper and maybe acraglass and a trigger job.

 

[Electrod47]

I confess I'm a Ruger fan. Have been since the early 70's when I could buy 2 Rugers for every Colt or Smith and Wesson. The quality was there, built to last. Have owned every Ruger handgun minus the Hawkeye nor the .30 Cal Single Action. Every barrel length, every caliber, you name it. Shot competition iron with a 10' 44 magnum for years. My personal defense side arm while living in Arizona 1976-2002 was a 1967 .357 Blackhawk w/ 6 1/2" barrel. Light and quick handling (for me at least). Moved to Texas in 02' and went to pocket size semi-auto Kel-tec. I had soft cased the Ruger under the seat of my off road P/U and forgot about it for several years of running deer lease Texas dirt back roads. Sold the truck and found it during the clean out. The soft case had worked itself under the hi-rise jack under the seat and had been beating on the gun all that time. Even the front sight was bent!!. I was going to part it out then thought No, I called Ruger and set up a work order and ship label to 1. Install new front sight. 2. Maybe, clean up the appearance a little. Said, I'd had the gun a longtime and had been a fan of Ruger. Stressed that I was now 70 years old and on a fixed income, so nothing expensive, Please. They assured me they would do no further work besides the front sight w/o calling me. Shipped the gun and 2 1/2 weeks later w/o notice UPS is at the front door with the Ruger. I opened it and Complete deep reblue job, New sights front and rear, brand new grips, everything polished mirror bright, and a target with 3 holes dead center and the empty .38 casings to boot. The invoice said ZERO owed. I dang near teared up. Yeah, they removed my old trigger and put in the transfer system. Yes, they returned the original trigger guts in a little bag, Trigger was too stiff by far. Got some Wollf Springs and its just as smooth. if not better than before.
Its mentioned above about the Trigger Stop on the Ruger M-77, how it works out or in. Let me shate my story on that one.
1983, being the Ruger fan I buy a used a M-77 in 300 Win Mag very low mileage gun. I want it for Mule Deer High up in the Hualapai Mountains I lived in outside Kingman Arizona. Shots are at least 300 yards usually across a Canyon if your lucky. Plus there were Elk on occasion ( though I never managed a tag).
It was a early season hunt, still warm out, even at 8,000 ft. I'm on the side of one canyon watching the other side while slowly moving along this game trail with a 60ft drop off, coming to a sharp turn around a large boulder with the said 60ft drop and a 3ft ledge I'm on, I come face to face at less than 10 paces with a Mountain Lion as big as "anything in Africa" standing broad side staring right at me his tail flicking faster and faster. I'm not gonna turn my back on this dude. Ruger 300 Win Mag was already being carried in my hands so from the Hip I flip the safety, point and shoot. Nothing!! I think Jeez. I thought I had a round in the chamber. I frantically work the action and hear a round hit the rocks as I slam home the bolt and pull the trigger again from the hip. Nothing! I think, did I work it so fast the bolt didn't pick up a round. I do it again, Nothing again, Nothing. I got 4 rounds on the ground and am now empty. I am at the verge of an adrenaline heart attack, and actually contemplating which would be worse HIM or taking my chance over the side. Just at that moment he went over the side!! Bounding down that (to me) a sheer cliff. I tried to reload and fire the gun as a signal for my other party members. no go. So I went down the mountain essentially unarmed waiting for my friend to reappear. Needless to say from then to this day in my 75th year I always have a Ruger 44 Magnum on my hip when I'm off the beaten path. I figured out what was wrong with the gun on my own, and just applied some loctite. My son has it still today.

 

[Varminterror]

Ruger still exists.

Remington doesn’t.

The winner is pretty obvious.

Bill’s dead, and Ruger has stopped pandering to left-leaning politics already many years ago. In the meantime, Remington declared multiple bankruptcies and ultimately has ceased to exist - with its legacy divided among many parties and its firearms line name now slapped onto products made by the scheister which buried the former company.

 

[jmr40]

Ruger pushing for a 10 round mag limit has been taken out of context for over 25 years. The AWB was going to pass, they had the votes. The only thing to be determined was the limit on how many rounds in the mags. Most politicians were pushing for either 5 or 7. Bill Ruger had some influence with some lawmakers, and he did push for the 10 round limit vs 5 or 7. Thank your Mr. Ruger.

I can find no proof that he ever said, " no honest man needs more than 10 rounds."

Any firearm that is neglected or has the trigger improperly modified can discharge when it isn't supposed to. It can and has happened to just about every manufacturer. The Walker trigger was different. There was a design flaw that could in rare cases cause the gun to fire with no trigger pull regardless.

They picked up guns off the assembly line and found that about 1 out of 100 would do it in 1946. They chose to ignore a known issue. And given enough time any of them can. It's just a matter of internal parts lining up in just the wrong position at the wrong time. Just because someone has had a rifle 40 years and it has never done it doesn't mean anything. It could do it the next time you pick it up. My 1975 made 700 has done it twice. Once in the 1990's and again somewhere around 2005. I replaced the trigger after the 2nd time.

1% doesn't sound like a lot until you consider Remington made millions of rifles. Just for perspective if 1% of the airlines crashed today that would mean several hundred planes going down.

 

[Mauser fan]

Every manufacturer that exists now or ever existed has had their lemons. As mentioned above. As for me I have owned a few. The one that stands out the most that was a firearm. It was the Remington model 710 where the bolt would come completely out of the action when you would open the bolt. Despite that short coming it was a tack driver. I've since sold it and kind of regret doing so because it was so accurate. Additionally
looking back knowing what I know now the short coming with that particular model is an easy fix. But hind sight is 20 20.
The other lemon was a Ford. Do I dare say anymore? It just proves that age old need for adequate QC.

 

[mshootnit]

My 700 has a Timney 510 in it. No problem

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

I've had more good shooting Remingtons than Rugers. I never had a Remington that would not group. Can't say that about Ruger. I have been told they finally learned the art of barrel making. I would never trust a 700 safety/trigger even if Remington fixed them under the recall. A real safety blocks the firing pin from moving.

 

[troy fairweather]

I think ruger knew what was coming before everyone else did, go back 25 years ago and say what's happening today they would lock you up in a padded room.

 

[d2wing]

I have both brands, they are tools
How many of you have communist made electronics and furniture. The hypocrisy is deep.

 

[Hugger-4641]

documentation on the Walker trigger. Yes, the Marxist & globalist media has overblown it, as it is fecund currency for their agenda. But at the core, I cannot deny that something is there. This entire

I can confirm it first hand. I experienced it recently with an ADL in 22-250. Of course Remarms is not honoring any previous product warranty or re'-calls, so we were on our own to fix it. If anyone doubts this is a real issue and needs more details, I can elaborate.

I'm neither a hater or fan boy of Ruger or Rem. I've had mostly good experiences and a couple bad ones with both companies.

A lot of Colt fans don't know that Colt had about the same opinion as Bill Ruger. That's why thier early Ar's and BCG's were not compatible with anyone else's. Colt was determined to make sure civilians couldn't make one full auto unless a lot of extra effort and custom parts were added.
I love Colt revolvers, but they can keep thier rifles.

 

[wesmonster]

I'm just glad Bill Ruger never said No Honest Man ever needs more than 10 GUNS.
My wife would never let me hear the end of that.
Ol' Bill made some pretty fine firearms so I'll let his crackpot belief slide that round 10 makes a man honest but the 11th makes him a criminal.

 

[Slamfire]

I've had more good shooting Remingtons than Rugers. I never had a Remington that would not group. Can't say that about Ruger. I have been told they finally learned the art of barrel making.

Wilson barrels told me they were a Ruger rifle barrel supplier, back in the 1970's. They gave Ruger the best barrels that could be had, for $15.00!. My tang safety M77 in 257 Roberts sprays bullets. Wilson match barrels are really good, but you pay more.

Ruger later up graded their barrels, and my M77 in 308 Win is very accurate

I would never trust a 700 safety/trigger even if Remington fixed them under the recall. A real safety blocks the firing pin from moving.

A sear blocking safety is not a safety. It is an accident waiting to happen. The original tang safety M77's only had a sear blocking safety. My 308 Win Ruger M77, Ruger installed a wing safety on the tang. The wing blocks the sear, but also fits into this notch on the firing pin cocking piece.



Once the wing is in that notch, that firing pin is positively held back. Remington never did this, and even with the new Remington safety, the only thing keeping the rifle from going bang is a couple of tiny sear surfaces, typified by this timney trigger mechanism




this Garand safety is an outstanding safety.






When the safety is engaged, it positively cams the hammer back, and holds it in place. You can butt stroke and bayonet someone, and be confident that the trigger won't jar off.

 

[robin banks]

Wilson barrels told me they were a Ruger rifle barrel supplier, back in the 1970's. They gave Ruger the best barrels that could be had, for $15.00!. My tang safety M77 in 257 Roberts sprays bullets. Wilson match barrels are really good, but you pay more.

Ruger later up graded their barrels, and my M77 in 308 Win is very accurate

View attachment 1101444


View attachment 1101445





A sear blocking safety is not a safety. It is an accident waiting to happen. The original tang safety M77's only had a sear blocking safety. My 308 Win Ruger M77, Ruger installed a wing safety on the tang. The wing blocks the sear, but also fits into this notch on the firing pin cocking piece.

View attachment 1101446

Once the wing is in that notch, that firing pin is positively held back. Remington never did this, and even with the new Remington safety, the only thing keeping the rifle from going bang is a couple of tiny sear surfaces, typified by this timney trigger mechanism

View attachment 1101447


this Garand safety is an outstanding safety.

View attachment 1101448


View attachment 1101449

When the safety is engaged, it positively cams the hammer back, and holds it in place. You can butt stroke and bayonet someone, and be confident that the trigger won't jar off.


View attachment 1101450

for a long time that is exactly what I think about the different type safeties. Ruger and Win 70 copied and modified the Mauser safety but you know that. first time I took out an M1A trigger group and saw how it block the hammer I was impressed. like you to me a safety that does not block the firing pin and or the hammer is not really a safety

 

[CraigC]

Meanwhile, Bill Ruger goes on record to say the most spectacularly awful and slanderous things about people like me. "No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun." Telling legislators that I cannot be trusted with a firearm, directly (IMO) facilitating the assault weapons ban of 1994. Ruger cashes in in the form of good will at the expense of the firearms industry. Is it totally unrelated that Ruger now is the most powerful, largest gunmaker in the US? Tell me there is zero correlation.

Bill Ruger has been endlessly slandered in this way ever since. What you don't seem to understand is that his comments were taken out of context by the left wing media and twisted in ways unintended. Few people, even shooters like yourself ever bothered to learn the truth. The truth is that the Clinton administration was actively sponsoring lawsuits designed ONLY to bankrupt the industry and it was working. The AWB was going to pass. Bill Ruger was trying to broker a compromise to save the industry. No good deed goes unpunished as he was slandered in the press, myths were created and perpetuated by people like yourself and the ban passed anyway.

 

[mshootnit]

When I was a kid there were fewer ARs, less tactical marketing. Also, by and large, society was in a better place. More 2 parent homes, more hard working parents, and churchgoers. Lots of WWII veterans around, Korean vets too. Most of them maybe had a semi auto pistol or shotgun and bolt action hunting rifles. Comments from the time need to considered in context for the time

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

Yeah and who went bankrupt and who is still going strong? LOL

I currently have many of both. The only real advantage I see to the Remington 700 is so many aftermarket parts and custom actions built on the design.

When it comes to factory guns I've probably had more Ruger 77 that shot better than the Remingtons. Of my current crop (ones I hang on to when I find a special one) I can't say I absolutely trust one over the other but my go to is usually one of three old Rugers. Two of which are chambered in 308 and one in 25-06.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Ruger actually had a slogan, "Arms makers for honest citizens", and, IIRC, the ten round nonsense didn't sunset with the so called "assault weapons ban". My long departed Mini 14 and original PC9 depended on aftermarket magazines, in order to have more than 10 rounds. Actually, the aftermarkets worked okay (don't recall the brands), but it was still unsettling to have to go aftermarket.
Gunmakers do get in bed with the gummint; the '68 Gun Control Act was specced with help from Smith and Colt, to eliminate overseas competition from guns like the PPK.
Old Bill was a mixed blessing, the 10 round business notwithstanding. His guns were hell for stout, but the handguns tended to be big and clubby.
Moon

 

[mgmorden]

Bill Ruger has been dead for 20 years. I don't particularly care what he said in regards to the company that happens to bear his name. The Ruger of today makes quality guns at good prices and doesn't seem to cater to any anti-gun ideas at all.

 

[DM~]

They picked up guns off the assembly line and found that about 1 out of 100 would do it in 1946. They chose to ignore a known issue. And given enough time any of them can. It's just a matter of internal parts lining up in just the wrong position at the wrong time. Just because someone has had a rifle 40 years and it has never done it doesn't mean anything. It could do it the next time you pick it up. My 1975 made 700 has done it twice. Once in the 1990's and again somewhere around 2005. I replaced the trigger after the 2nd time.

1% doesn't sound like a lot until you consider Remington made millions of rifles. Just for perspective if 1% of the airlines crashed today that would mean several hundred planes going down.

I guess I'm the luckiest guy in the world, I've had more than 100 Remington 700's go through my hands and NOT even one has had any kind of a trigger problem! But I have had guys bring them into my shop that had trigger problems when the owners tried to adjust the trigger pull and I've seen a couple that had triggers so full of sticky crud that they didn't work right.

After cleaning and proper adjusting all was well again... More 700's were sold in my area than any other brand and I never even heard of one guy claiming any 700's firing when the safety was taken off.

I still have Rem. 700's and still use them, I shot two bucks last fall with a 700, it worked perfectly.

Don't even get me started on all the inaccurate Rugers I've had to work on!

DM

 

[mcb]

My very first gun (9 years old) was a Ruger 10/22. I like Ruger rimfires but have never been a fan of anything they make centerfire wise. I would rather have a S&W revolver than a Ruger. The last rifle I bought was a Remington 700 (barrel and action made late 2018 or early 2019) and it is the most accurate rifle I have owned, my personal best with the rifle was .38 MOA 5-shot group at 200 yards. I have shot that rifle out to 1000 yards in competition.

Remington is gone (RIP) and not much Ruger makes currently interest me...