Remington Ruger comparison

[Southmountain]

Bill Ruger has been endlessly slandered in this way ever since. What you don't seem to understand is that his comments were taken out of context by the left wing media and twisted in ways unintended. Few people, even shooters like yourself ever bothered to learn the truth. The truth is that the Clinton administration was actively sponsoring lawsuits designed ONLY to bankrupt the industry and it was working. The AWB was going to pass. Bill Ruger was trying to broker a compromise to save the industry. No good deed goes unpunished as he was slandered in the press, myths were created and perpetuated by people like yourself and the ban passed anyway.

Got it - help me understand this. Are you saying that when Bill Ruger went on the record saying that people like me can't be trusted with guns, he did it with a wink, and that I should have known he didn't really mean it? And that he was assuming the role of a puppetmaster, saying something to assuage a populace in order to actually obtain a more favorable outcome for gun owners? That this was all some master class in poker?

 

[Hugger-4641]

I guess I'm the luckiest guy in the world, I've had more than 100 Remington 700's go through my hands and NOT even one has had any kind of a trigger problem!

Yep, I've also owned and shot dozens of them with no problems.... until the day I did.
Here's thread and pics of the one that fired when I closed the bolt, with safety on.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/update-rem-700-slamfire.899477/#post-12157669

 

[CraigC]

Got it - help me understand this. Are you saying that when Bill Ruger went on the record saying that people like me can't be trusted with guns, he did it with a wink, and that I should have known he didn't really mean it? And that he was assuming the role of a puppetmaster, saying something to assuage a populace in order to actually obtain a more favorable outcome for gun owners? That this was all some master class in poker?

That's not what he said. I'm saying the anti-gun media took the parts they could use and discarded the rest. You fell for it and have been holding a grudge for no good reason.

 

[PapaG]

Don’t care what went on way back when. I’ve got a dozen Ruger firearms and can rely on every one of them to do what is expected.
Service has exceeded everyone else’s. Reliability has been flawless in my Marks, 10-22s, LCPs, Max, LCs, SAs, 77s, and have only had one that didn’t give satisfactory accuracy. It is gone and maybe I didn’t work it enough. Never had a Ruger shotgun but have shot with many who have.
Ruger bashers, get out of the past.
Clinton is gone. Obama is pulling strings and Brandon’s handlers are more important than something old Bill may have said forty years ago.
I’m betting my life on any one of three Rugers.

 

[Southmountain]

That's not what he said. I'm saying the anti-gun media took the parts they could use and discarded the rest. You fell for it and have been holding a grudge for no good reason.

Can someone give me more detail on this? I’m not saying I’m right and am open to different viewpoints on Bill Ruger. It can be a link to an article, or a PM, if more appropriate considering this thread. I could very well have been holding an incorrect viewpoint all these years. Thank you.

 

[P89DCSS]

Can someone give me more detail on this? I’m not saying I’m right and am open to different viewpoints on Bill Ruger. It can be a link to an article, or a PM, if more appropriate considering this thread. I could very well have been holding an incorrect viewpoint all these years. Thank you.

You made the claim. Show where you learned about your Bill Ruger claim. Craig wouldn't have straighten you out with a false narrative. If Craig doesn't know for certain he doesn't make up a story. You on the other hand....Based on Craig's post I'm satisfied you're full of it.

 

[Varminterror]

Can someone give me more detail on this? I’m not saying I’m right and am open to different viewpoints on Bill Ruger. It can be a link to an article, or a PM, if more appropriate considering this thread. I could very well have been holding an incorrect viewpoint all these years. Thank you.

Quotation of Bull Ruger’s Open Letter to members of Congress, sent March 30, 1989, was published in a 1992 issue of American Handgunner, and can be found on Bill Ruger’s Wikipedia page.

It’s disingenuous, however, to blacklist Ruger for the concessions made in light of the pending Federal AWB, a position which has been wholly reversed DECADES ago, when not also acknowledging the anti-gun position of Remington’s owners for the last decade. Following Sandy Hook, Cerberus group became very openly anti-gun, desiring to divest their holdings, ultimately culminating in the demise of DPMS, Bushmaster, Marlin, and Remington, with the CURRENT ownership of Remington’s brand name retaining anti-gun sentiment sufficient to only focus on hunting firearms, and separating themselves from the purpose-designed weapons predicated by the Second Amendment. Also ignoring companies like Smith & Wesson which had made political campaign contributions for many years to anti-gun candidates.

 

[jmorris]

It’s disingenuous, however, to blacklist Ruger for the concessions made in light of the pending Federal AWB, a position which has been wholly reversed DECADES ago, when not also acknowledging the anti-gun position of Remington’s owners for the last decade.

Same can be said for others that have not been faithful. S&W also acted in their own interests vs the interests of their customers.

Forgiveness is generally easier to acquire than permission, so people generally do what they want regardless of fall out. Some forgive unfaithfulness and forget, others you have lost forever, having destroyed the trust you had with them.

Just different people with different mindsets.

 

[wbm]

I never had a Remington that would not group.

I have. 700 Classic 6.5x55 Swede. Terrible accuracy! Remington replaced the barrels on those upon request.

 

[Demi-human]

I have literally been married, divorced, renovated a home and nearly raised two children since Bill has been gone, both of them. And I couldn’t drive before that.

Because I don’t live two decades in the past, and there is no more Remington, we have nothing to compare.

Remington is dead, and a memory of a time we destroyed and long for, nothing more.
The 700 rifle is ubiquitous and produced by many companies, often with better results. It’s like saying a car is a Ford because they made them first, ignoring Cadillac and Mercedes.

Ruger is a fine company, innovating the AR market with a new small frame large cartridge rifle, that ships with a twenty round magazine I might add. While also preserving a much loved company of yesteryear that makes classic lever guns.


Holding grudges is the most unhealthy for the holder, often the other party doesn’t even know, let alone care.

It’s hilarious the fuddery that the RemArms ads are. And they of course want you to think they are Remington Arms. But the headcheese WAS Remington and is a fudd, but we’re trying to hate on Ruger!

 

[mcb]

I have literally been married, divorced, renovated a home and nearly raised two children since Bill has been gone, both of them. And I couldn’t drive before that.

Because I don’t live two decades in the past, and there is no more Remington, we have nothing to compare.

Remington is dead, and a memory of a time we destroyed and long for, nothing more.
The 700 rifle is ubiquitous and produced by many companies, often with better results. It’s like saying a car is a Ford because they made them first, ignoring Cadillac and Mercedes.

Ruger is a fine company, innovating the AR market with a new small frame large cartridge rifle, that ships with a twenty round magazine I might add. While also preserving a much loved company of yesteryear that makes classic lever guns.


Holding grudges is the most unhealthy for the holder, often the other party doesn’t even know, let alone care.

It’s hilarious the fuddery that the RemArms ads are. And they of course want you to think they are Remington Arms. But the headcheese WAS Remington and is a fudd, but we’re trying to hate on Ruger!

Except Remington did the small frame 308 AR first with the DPMS GII. It never got the press (in large part Remington's fault) it deserved but DPMS was making a sub 7 lb AR in 308 Win, 7mm-08, 6.5 Creedmoor, and 243 Win and no one seems to know they did it. The R10,the Remington Defense version of the GII, was poised to be a game changer with a full ambidextrous lower and several other improvements over the GII but Remington went belly-up and those improvement will never see the light of day.

 

[DM~]

The 700 rifle is ubiquitous and produced by many companies, often with better results. It’s like saying a car is a Ford because they made them first, ignoring Cadillac and Mercedes.

EXCEPT ford was far from making them first...

DM

 

[CraigC]

You made the claim. Show where you learned about your Bill Ruger claim. Craig wouldn't have straighten you out with a false narrative. If Craig doesn't know for certain he doesn't make up a story. You on the other hand....Based on Craig's post I'm satisfied you're full of it.

Thanks!

@Varminterror referenced an A/H article. Dang, has it been that long?!?!? There was another that proceeded it that talked about how Bill Ruger's words had been twisted and manipulated by the media and anti-gun politicians. I know I have it, as I have every issue up until the last few years but I have no idea which issue it was.

 

[jmorris]

The R10,the Remington Defense version of the GII, was poised to be a game changer with a full ambidextrous lower and several other improvements over the GII but Remington went belly-up and those improvement will never see the light of day.

Was that the .30AR one or something different?

 

[Southmountain]

Quotation of Bull Ruger’s Open Letter to members of Congress, sent March 30, 1989, was published in a 1992 issue of American Handgunner, and can be found on Bill Ruger’s Wikipedia page.

It’s disingenuous, however, to blacklist Ruger for the concessions made in light of the pending Federal AWB, a position which has been wholly reversed DECADES ago, when not also acknowledging the anti-gun position of Remington’s owners for the last decade. Following Sandy Hook, Cerberus group became very openly anti-gun, desiring to divest their holdings, ultimately culminating in the demise of DPMS, Bushmaster, Marlin, and Remington, with the CURRENT ownership of Remington’s brand name retaining anti-gun sentiment sufficient to only focus on hunting firearms, and separating themselves from the purpose-designed weapons predicated by the Second Amendment. Also ignoring companies like Smith & Wesson which had made political campaign contributions for many years to anti-gun candidates.

That’s all fine, but you’re unlikely going to have a lower opinion of Remarms formerly Remington, than me. Focusing on Bill Ruger, I just don’t know how I’ve allegedly misconstrued his statement that people like me don’t have the moral compass to be trusted with firearms. That’s such a black and white statement. What am I missing? What did he actually mean? What was he trying to communicate and accomplish? Was he double minded and this statement didn’t reflect his beliefs?

 

[mcb]

Was that the .30AR one or something different?

The 30 Remington AR was a proprietary upper that worked on a standard AR-15 lower.

The DPMS GII (the Rem-Def R10 and Remington R25 GII were built on the same receivers) was basically an AR-15 with the magazine well and ejection port stretch out to accommodate the 308 Win family of cartridges. The bolt-carrier was longer but the same 1-inch diameter of of an A-15. This made the upper much slimmer and lighter. The upper was longer and only slightly taller and wider to accommodate a slightly larger barrel extension needed for the 308 case head. The bolt itself used rounded lugs similar to the Knights SR-15 bolt which are both stronger and easier to make with no sharp inside corners (for bolt or barrel extension). The GII also used standard AR-15 receiver extensions (special buffer and recoil spring) so you could mount just about any AR-15 stock on it. Most people that picked up a DPMS GII AP4 thought they were just picking up another M4-orgery and it would take a bit of convincing that they were actually holding a 308 rifle not a 556 rifle.

But alas Remington is gone and were are left waiting on PSA to do something with the GII (I fear the R10 was lost in the shuffle). PSA instead of reviving the GII feels the need to slap the DPMS label on AK's...

 

[Varminterror]

That’s all fine, but you’re unlikely going to have a lower opinion of Remarms formerly Remington, than me. Focusing on Bill Ruger, I just don’t know how I’ve allegedly misconstrued his statement that people like me don’t have the moral compass to be trusted with firearms. That’s such a black and white statement. What am I missing? What did he actually mean? What was he trying to communicate and accomplish? Was he double minded and this statement didn’t reflect his beliefs?

You’re completely missing the point.

Nobody should care what Bill - a man who has been dead and no longer controlling the company for over 20 years - could have meant by what he said over 30 years ago, while completely ignoring their behaviors over the last ~20 years. You’re getting axle wrapped by something so irrelevant that it’s just not sensible. Ruger has done far more in the “Pro 2A column” to bolster our rights and access in recent decades than any damage this concession letter made before the ban - including political pressure and corresponding marketing in unfriendly states…

It’s kinda like being mad at your grade school buddy’s mom because she said Timmy couldn’t come out and play after school in 3rd grade, while you’re at Timmy’s retirement party, after his mom has been dead and gone for decades… and worse, that you’re willingly trying to stay mad about it.

 

[CraigC]

That’s all fine, but you’re unlikely going to have a lower opinion of Remarms formerly Remington, than me. Focusing on Bill Ruger, I just don’t know how I’ve allegedly misconstrued his statement that people like me don’t have the moral compass to be trusted with firearms. That’s such a black and white statement. What am I missing? What did he actually mean? What was he trying to communicate and accomplish? Was he double minded and this statement didn’t reflect his beliefs?

Well, there is NOTHING black & white about it. Have you read a thing we've posted? For one thing, he never said that. You've taken the misinformation and lies that you've been fed and built upon it. Right or wrong, Bill Ruger said what he said in an effort to save the entire industry from bankruptcy. Do you remember that?

No matter what he said or didn't say, the man has been dead for two decades now. Hell, his son has already served as CEO, retired and passed away. In his lifetime, Bill Ruger probably did more for the firearms industry than any other individual. The company he founded builds pistols and rifles with as much magazine capacity as you could possibly want. You seem to be very invested in this grudge but it's time to let it go.

 

[Heir Kommt Die Sonne]

Nevermind Remington or Ruger, Winchester is the real way to go. Never seen anyone complain about them.

 

[Hugger-4641]

Nevermind Remington or Ruger, Winchester is the real way to go. Never seen anyone complain about them.

Oh, they've had their problems too. Sx3 slam fire comes to mind. Never had a problem with any of thier rifles or any public statements they've made.

 

[mcb]

Nevermind Remington or Ruger, Winchester is the real way to go. Never seen anyone complain about them.

Winchester is the same as Remington, RIP. Winchester is just a brand that Olin owns and FN license and slaps on some guns they make. Remington brands is owned by Vista and Rem Arm license it, Rem Arm can at least claim the guns still come from the same factory for better or worst.

 

[Picher]

I had a 700 that had a safety failure once. I immediately replaced it with a Timney. Life's too short to worry about a safety not working...if it fails once, it may again.

 

[Picher]

Yep, I've also owned and shot dozens of them with no problems.... until the day I did.
Here's thread and pics of the one that fired when I closed the bolt, with safety on.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/update-rem-700-slamfire.899477/#post-12157669

Thats exactly why my firearm is always pointed away from anyone/anything not to be hit, and double-check where everyone is, before I close the action or lower the hammer.

 

[Varminterror]

Nevermind Remington or Ruger, Winchester is the real way to go. Never seen anyone complain about them.

Nobody says much about Winchester because they floundered and drowned 16 years ago, and today are largely a footnote (largely as they had been for the previous century) in the industry, as their licensees only produce a limited spectrum of models with relatively small, niche markets.

Ruger, Smith & Wesson, and SigSauer are the powerhouse names, producing two, four, and nearly 6 times more firearms annually than the 4th ranking manufacturers (latest available 2019 AFMER). Remington and Winchester aren’t even scratching the top 10 (nor Savage, which honestly surprised me). Remington’s pre-dissolution production numbers (2017 AFMER) would have put them in the#4 spot.

Interestingly - Anderson, with 95% of its volume coming from lowers, rather than complete firearms, held the #4 spot in 2019.

 

[NMachine]

Thats exactly why my firearm is pointed away from anyone/anything not to be hit when I close the action or lower the hammer.

As it should. At all times, in all circumstances regardless of manufacturer or their safety track record.