hotpig
Member
The thought of unarming the Police will help RKBA is kind of silly to me.
Nope. Here it is, straight:Old Dog said:Let me get this straight: you'd have the Brady bunch agreeing to take already allowed firearms from law enforcement, and this would help RKBA for private citizens?
Actually, if you do any reading at all, you'll find that it's the line cops who not so infrequently make up "laws" on the fly, in some instances ORDERING people to BREAK the ACTUAL law, such as telling people in Virginia that they HAVE to have their firearms concealed in a liquor serving establishment when precisely the opposite is the case. Or how about the cop who berated a man for not following CCW law IN AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT STATE FROM THE ONE IN WHICH HE LIVED???Once again, good THR members: It is NOT the line cops that make laws regulating firearms!
as a way to illustrate and emphasize the idiotic nature of laws that disarm regular citizens.
It's not the LEOs on this board who fail to acknowledge that we're on the same team. Sorry.He's suggesting that it would be good for law enforcement officers and regular citizens to acknowledge that we're on the same team.
I would not say efforts have failed. It took how many years for someone to get the ball rolling with HR218? It took 4-5 years to get HR218 passed and that was 2004. Almost 4 years later there are still states unsure as to how they will apply to "their officers". They pretty much have to accept it for out of state LEOs as it's Federal law.
There are requirements to be met under HR218. Many of these were hashed out over the years it took to get it passed. Any Federal law requiring recognition of a state issued CCP or whatever you want to call it would undoubtedly have requirements.
You can't get it all at once.
It's not the LEOs on this board who fail to acknowledge that we're on the same team. Sorry.
I don't see why its unthinkable. Look at how riled up the public gets over taser usage. Look at other countries where your average officer doesn't carry a gun at all. At best I think the idea is a waste of time. At worst you guys might get exactly what you want and wind up facing the entirely new problem of "if the police don't need 30 round magazines, neither do you." Keep your eye on the prize. LEO exemptions may be unfair and an ideologically bad idea, but that doesn't mean fighting them is going to help restore our rights. Our real battle is with the public and involves battling misinformation from the brady bunch and breaking stereotypes of gun owners, we get nothing going after leos.Going back to the main point, the real question is: would any firearm restrictions pass if they applied to LEOs? Would there be the parade of uniforms whenever this legislation is discussed? Would we hear the "got to keep the guns off the street" or "only criminals use these guns" if the officers were discussing the weapons in their own holsters?
Once again, good THR members: It is NOT the line cops that make laws regulating firearms! Do we all need some civics lessons here? It's your freakin' state legislators and city councilpersons that foist the BS laws and ordinances on you all ...
Old Dog said:Gee, Brian, thanks for using the big, bolded type so that I didn't have to put on the reading glasses for your post.
Old Dog said:You really think the morons in public office -- your legislators -- and the anti-gun faction would see it like this?
Old Dog said:May I share what you're smoking?
No, not at all ... upon further reflection, I'd say the concept's validity is worth consideration. However, given present day political realities and liberal America's basic misunderstanding of gun issues, I believe that such an idea would lead to a severe set-back in the RKBA movement for all were anyone able to get the idea on the table. Finally, we inevitably move on to the militarization of law enforcement agencies, which, good or bad (and most here undoubtedly believe bad), had its genesis in the WoD, but came fully evolved out of the terrorism hysteria post-9/11. We're just not ever gonna get rid of all the high-tech, high-firepower and high-priced weaponry, either on the side of the LE agencies or the bad guys. It's there, it's not going away, so to me, the idea of trying to take LE organizations back to the early 20th century is simplistic, unworkable, unachievable, and would be the death-knell in the RKBA movement for all citizens, because, you see, there will always be those in power who will want their law enforcement to be better armed than the citizenry. Does this fall at all into line with what we know of our Founding Fathers' intent? No, of course not. But ignoring reality and trying to restrict arms for any segment of the populace will not lead to the rest of the people having the restrictions on them loosened ...Does that mean that the OP is wrong to post the idea for discussion in this thread?
Ah, the inevitable comparison of those in law enforcement to the traitors who collaborated with their Nazi occupiers. And I believe the phrase is "cognitive dissonance," which is something I doubt most folks in law enforcement don't feel, as most act in accordance with their own beliefs (which, by the way, don't stem from being aDo the words "collaborator" and "congitive dissonance" mean anything to you?
R127, great analogies, first the military, now law enforcement. Life must be tough for you, living in Occupied America.volunteer to serve as enforcers for the criminals
I don't see it ever happening ... but, I submit that if an educated, pro-gun electorate put some folks, with common sense regarding firearms issues, in office, that you might see more rank and file law enforcement personnel getting in line accordingly. Your basic street cops, especially the more junior ones, tend to reflect the company attitude, which, regrettably, usually comes from the top. Wondering about Chicago PD or LAPD street cops' attitudes about citizens' gun rights? Look at their leadership, starting with mayors and city council members, who choose the chiefs and commissioners, who dicate policies and tell their subordinates how to think.
It's not the LEOs on this board who fail to acknowledge that we're on the same team. Sorry.
So Orficer Dog, according to your superiors, certain types of firearms are dangerous to society.
LEO's as representatives of society by possessing such weapons intesify that threat.
I actually meant (forgive me, it was late ... or early), "It's not ONLY the LEOs on this board who fail to acknowledge that we're on the same team."It's not the LEOs on this board who fail to acknowledge that we're on the same team. Sorry.
Ah, the inevitable comparison of those in law enforcement to the traitors who collaborated with their Nazi occupiers.
And I believe the phrase is "cognitive dissonance,"
which is something I doubt most folks in law enforcement don't feel, as most act in accordance with their own beliefs
R127, great analogies, first the military, now law enforcement. Life must be tough for you, living in Occupied America.
R127
The fact that every unconstitutional action in this country that has been enforced, has been so enforced by a gov't actor (often via LEOs) is absolutely true. The fact that future unconstitional actions will be similarly enforced is equally true.
However, we are again approaching the level where the signal is drowned out by the noise due to loaded terms.
I'm no moderator, but they have been noticeably absent from this thread and I don't think it's because they don't know it's here. Let's not give them reason to make themselves known in a rather . . . final manner, shall we?
It is certainly much trickier for the ordinary citizens who actually build civilizations and make them great than it is for the specially priviledged politicians who tear them down and the enforcers that help them. I do pretty well though because I am not servile by nature so instead of living lies I find ways through and around the speedbumps set before us. I'm truly sorry if you dedicated your life to serving people who betrayed both of us and are now having to look back on that as the years ahead grow fewer than the years behind and wonder what it was really for.
Like I said I know most people who choose to be government enforcers want to do good they just were duped into supporting the wrong people.
You cannot serve justice by carrying out the will of criminals.
Just patronizing, then.I'm not trying to be hostile or a jerk.