Repeal the second amendment

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rocinante

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Don't you just love those cut up kids at Harvard. They are SOOO SMART. Makes me just sleep easy knowing this bunch will run our country some day. I think we should all now bow to their wisdom and let them. Case in point is this poll http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2007/11/beat-the-high-c.html
on a decidedly low brow news site that demonstrates the ignorance of the masses where they say the 2nd is an individual right 98 to 1 percent. Peasants.

Of course on second reading these future lawyers of America don't really care about whether it is constitutional, moral, or legal. It is from the history of dead white guys so just toss it. Geeeeezzz now the second is truly the inconvenient truth.


http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=521013

Pulling the Trigger
The Second Amendment is an anachronism in need of repeal
Published On Friday, November 30, 2007 1:15 AM
By THE CRIMSON STAFF


Written in an age in which minutemen rose to dress and fight at a moment’s notice, the Second Amendment was no doubt motivated by a young nation’s concern for its own safety and stability. But now, when the United States is protected by the most powerful security forces on the globe, the Second Amendment is neither relevant nor useful. Rather, it has become an impediment to vital public policy, and it should be repealed and replaced with nuanced federal legislation.

Despite the controversy surrounding the Second Amendment, arguments about its relevancy have not surfaced in the Supreme Court since 1939, when the justices merely touched upon the issue in United States v. Miller. But early this month, the Supreme Court agreed to take on the case of District of Columbia v. Heller, in which the central consideration is the right of an individual to own a firearm as protected under the Second Amendment. The case specifically addresses private handgun ownership in the District of Columbia. But while legalistic arguments—the phrasing of the amendment itself and the framers’ intent—will be at the center of the debate, no matter what the justices ultimately decide, we believe that a constitutional protection of an individual right to bear arms is detrimental to the country. Instead, the Second Amendment should be replaced with federal statues designed to tightly regulate gun ownership.

The high level of violence in the United States as compared to other developed countries, if not directly related to the culture of gun ownership and distribution, is at least a strong argument that the Second Amendment is preventing aggressive federal gun regulation. According to the Centers for Disease Control, in 2005, 68 percent of the 14,860 homicides in the United States were gun-related. Given the pervasiveness of gun violence that occurs in this country every year, this sort of uneven gun control is unacceptable, especially when it comes to handguns. Unlike rifles and shotguns, a handgun has little use in hunting: It is a military and police weapon, built expressly to kill another human being. Yet little is done to prevent its distribution: In Virginia, any person over the age of 18 can buy a handgun, and if a handgun is purchased at a gun show, there is no background check required.

Supporters of a constitutionally enshrined individual right to bear arms argue that state gun control laws have “reinterpreted” the right to gun ownership. These limitations on gun ownership, they say, demonstrate that gun ownership itself is not linked to increased violence. But in the wake of the expiration of the Federal Assault Weapon Ban in 2004, gun control remains relatively lax in many states, especially when it comes to handguns, which are responsible for many, if not most, gun-related murders. Gun advocates claim the need for handguns in self-defense, but such considerations are moot when weighed against the number of lives that might be saved by making the weapons illegal.

In the context of today’s society, the Second Amendment is outdated. Constitutional debates over its interpretation stand in the way of the implementation of pressing public policy. Instead of wasting time attempting to fix this anachronism, we should repeal this amendment and focus our efforts on legislation that will actually protect the “security of a free state”—a charge explicit in the Second Amendment.
 
The Bill of Rights and the Constitution are a package deal. Several States refused to ratify it without the BoR, and therefore the Second Amendment can no more be repealed than the Constitution.
 
The ignorance in that article is truly stupefying. I don't even know where to begin.
 
If they don't feel that it's necessary to be able to defend yourself, then they don't have to. Actually, I hope they choose not to... makes me a less appealing target.
 
This article is lifted right out of the pages of How to Lie with Statistics. What does "....gun related..." mean? No firearm was actually used, but there was a firearm present, unload, disabled, cased and locked away in the vehicle's trunk with 38 padlocks, cables and an electronic security system to boot?! Bovine feces!

"Gun related" does not mean a gun was used.

Doc2005
 
Pulling the Trigger
The Second Amendment is an anachronism in need of repeal
Published On Friday, November 30, 2007 1:15 AM
By THE CRIMSON STAFF


Written in an age in which minutemen rose to dress and fight at a moment’s notice, the Second Amendment was no doubt motivated by a young nation’s concern for its own safety and stability. But now, when the United States is protected by the most powerful security forces on the globe, the Second Amendment is neither relevant nor useful. Rather, it has become an impediment to vital public policy, and it should be repealed and replaced with nuanced federal legislation. Meaning most people will not understand it's purpose or it's effect, until they are arrested for violating it.
Despite the controversy surrounding the Second Amendment, arguments about its relevancy have not surfaced in the Supreme Court since 1939, when the justices merely touched upon the issue in United States v. Miller. But early this month, the Supreme Court agreed to take on the case of District of Columbia v. Heller, in which the central consideration is the right of an individual to own a firearm as protected under the Second Amendment. The case specifically addresses private handgun ownership in the District of Columbia. But while legalistic arguments (what other type of argument does he expect the court to decide?) —the phrasing of the amendment itself and the framers’ intent—will be at the center of the debate, no matter what the justices ultimately decide, we believe that a constitutional protection of an individual right to bear arms is detrimental to the country. Instead, the Second Amendment should be replaced with federal statues designed to tightly regulate gun ownership. His notion is that the purpose of the Second Amendment was to protect the sovereignty of the nation, not the freedom and safety of the people of that nation, and that the people are no longer necessary to preserve the sovereignty of the nation - it can now be done with the national military (or mercenaries).

The high level of violence in the United States as compared to other developed countries, if not directly related to the culture of gun ownership and distribution, is at least a strong argument that the Second Amendment is preventing aggressive federal gun regulation. According to the Centers for Disease Control, in 2005, 68 percent of the 14,860 homicides in the United States were gun-related. Given the pervasiveness of gun violence that occurs in this country every year, this sort of uneven gun control is unacceptable, especially when it comes to handguns. Unlike rifles and shotguns, a handgun has little use in hunting: It is a military and police weapon, built expressly to kill another human being. Yet little is done to prevent its distribution: In Virginia, any person over the age of 18 can buy a handgun, and if a handgun is purchased at a gun show, there is no background check required. Factually incorrect: he is thinking of private sales not done via FFL. He also has no clue about the various uses of handguns in sport shooting, and back country protection from dangerous animals.

Supporters of a constitutionally enshrined individual right to bear arms argue that state gun control laws have “reinterpreted” the right to gun ownership. These limitations on gun ownership, they say, demonstrate that gun ownership itself is not linked to increased violence. But in the wake of the expiration of the Federal Assault Weapon Ban in 2004, gun control remains relatively lax in many states, especially when it comes to handguns, which are responsible for many, if not most, gun-related murders. Gun advocates claim the need for handguns in self-defense, but such considerations are moot when weighed against the number of lives that might be saved by making the weapons illegal. The AWB was not about handguns, so his argument is erroneous. He ignores the unreported prevention of crime, and assumes that because no statistics are collected for handguns saving lives, that criminal misuse far outweighs legitimate defensive use.

In the context of today’s society, the Second Amendment is outdated. Constitutional debates over its interpretation stand in the way of the implementation of pressing public policy. Instead of wasting time attempting to fix this anachronism, we should repeal this amendment and focus our efforts on legislation that will actually protect the “security of a free state”—a charge explicit in the Second Amendment. He conveniently ignores the fact that the Second Amendment is designed to allow the people to protect themselves (the security of a free state - a condition of freedom, not a political zone encompassing an area of geography) from the tyranny of the State (a political entity).

The author of this piece does not consider the individual to be as important as the statistic. He wants to reduce the gun crime RATE, not the effect of the crime on it's victims; he does not want the victims to be able to defend themselves against violent attack. That is a job for federal laws and federal enforcers. Why should the people believe that any new federal laws regarding violent crime will be any more effective than those we already have on the books, that are not being enforced at this time? The author assumes that violence will stop as soon as bad people have firearms taken away; he is ignoring the current situation in England, where violent crime with other weapons has so greatly increased after firearms were outlawed, that the people of that nation are suffering the most violent crime wave in recent history. He appears to think that a disarmed people will be safer and more secure than an armed people. The government will be safer, since it's agents will have no fear of opposition to it's tyranny. The people will be more secure, in their jail cells and in the electronically monitored home arrest; prisons are great for securing people, but that is not my idea of freedom.
 
Good to see that Harvard has gone on the record as against the Constitution. For many years Harvard and its alumni have worked to destroy the Constitution while denying that that was their goal.

I, on the other hand, have taken an oath, several times in fact, to defend the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic. I have not renounced that oath.

It's good to know who is on the other side.
 
But now, when the United States is protected by the most powerful security forces on the globe, the Second Amendment is neither relevant nor useful.
The colonies were similarly protected... and subjugated... by the most powerful security forces on the globe. That was a reason FOR the 2nd.

we believe that a constitutional protection of an individual right to bear arms is detrimental to the country.
That which was necessary for the creation of the country is detrimental to it?

But in the wake of the expiration of the Federal Assault Weapon Ban in 2004, gun control remains relatively lax in many states, especially when it comes to handguns, which are responsible for many, if not most, gun-related murders.
Gotta get rid of those pesky assault weapons somehow. Since they are only responsible for less than 1-2% of gun crime, one must link it somehow to the type of weapon most often involved so that we can revive the ban on those awful black rifles. After all, if we claim the REASON for banning handguns is because they are involved in so much crime, there would be no reason to ban a type of weapon involved in so LITTLE crime.

we should repeal this amendment and focus our efforts on legislation that will actually protect the “security of a free state”—a charge explicit in the Second Amendment.

Legislation does not protect a free state. It's people do. And the people will need guns to keep anyone else from getting heady enough to think that they can usurp the people.
 
This article is lifted right out of the pages of How to Lie with Statistics.

This is one of the best little books I ever read... should be required
 
If the Second Amendment were to be repealed . . . it would establish as precedent that ALL of the Bill of Rights was subject to repeal.

I wonder if those Einsteins at Harvard thought this through.
 
therefore the Second Amendment can no more be repealed than the Constitution.

You might want to recheck that. Congress cannot repeal them, but if I recall, 3/4ths of the states voting to would make it so.
 
The writer was not specific, but I get the sense he is talking about invoking the constitutional process for ammendment - ie, "repeal" the 2nd according to the constitutionally legal process.

This at least puts him above the level of people who just want a court ruling to magically make the 2nd disappear - ie, re-interpret the 2nd in such a way as to make it meaningless. That is the most disheartening thing to me about all of this - that people are willing to fatally weaken all our constitutional liberties by giving the courts a rubber-stamp power to eliminate any parts of the constitution they consider inconvenient or out of fashion.

The point above, about defense of the state vs. defense of the people, is well taken. Nobody who honestly reads the founders can possibly think that the primary purpose of the bill of rights is to preserve our system of government. Clearly, the purpose of the bill of rights is to preserve the liberties of the people.

It is extremely frightening to me that students in one of our nation's most prestigious law schools could fail to appreciate this essential point.
 
Gun advocates claim the need for handguns in self-defense, but such considerations are moot when weighed against the number of lives that might be saved by making the weapons illegal.

Does this guy even know how many crimes and deaths are prevented by legal handgun ownership? Somebody needs to crawl back into the hole from which they emerged.

Instead of wasting time attempting to fix this anachronism, we should repeal this amendment and focus our efforts on legislation that will actually protect the “security of a free state”—a charge explicit in the Second Amendment.

By definition, the security of a free state must depend entirely upon its constituents' eternal vigilance. Without arms, that vigilance is nearly powerless to stop any force that would encroach upon said free state.
 
Want to try to repeal the 2nd - go for it! At least he admits the individual right, & that it is absolute. So for now remove all gun-control laws and leave us the hell alone - until the amendment is repealed. Good luck with that. (He should just keep in mind how (IN)effective the amendment to ban alcohol to control it's use, and the crime associated with it, was).

THEN, if it EVER gets done, he can TRY to pass new laws. He can also try to explain why, while it is a given we all have the unalienable right to self-defense, he can justify ANY attempt to eliminate the means to do so effectively - or maybe it is that he wants to repeal the natural rights of life & liberty too? A right without the means is no right at all.
 
You could "repeal" the 2A via Constitutional Convention, though that would probably not be a "repeal" per se. If we went that way, however, we shouldn't kid ourselves about the result; we would eviscerate a lot more than just the second amendment. We'd lose the first and forth too, and as well, the ninth and tenth ... at the very least.
The Harvard elites had best be careful what they wish for; they might get it.
 
But while legalistic arguments—the phrasing of the amendment itself and the framers’ intent—will be at the center of the debate, no matter what the justices ultimately decide, we believe that a constitutional protection of an individual right to bear arms is detrimental to the country. Instead, the Second Amendment should be replaced with federal statues designed to tightly regulate gun ownership.

This is the part that scares me the most. They already don't care what SCOTUS decides and I think that is the position the ACLU will take if SCOTUS does indeed affirm the lower courts decision. If SCOTUS does rule in our favor it will be a major victory for the RKBA cause but I think the anti's will just cover their ears and make up reasons why the ruling doesn't count.
 
In the context of today’s society, the Second Amendment is outdated. Constitutional debates over its interpretation stand in the way of the implementation of pressing public policy.

In other words, the people pushing the so-called "collective right" theory have lost the Constitutional debate.

I have to smile when even opponents of the 2A are forced to acknowledge that they have been spewing bull**** all these years.
 
Hey, I see this article as a victory for our side: they admitted the Second Amendment does indeed protect individual citizens' right to keep and bear arms. Why would it need to be repealed if it didn't prevent the type of laws they want to pass?

Guess what? It does!

:)
 
Actually I'd like the antis to stick around and actually practice some Enlightenment era concepts instead of just talking about them.
 
Hey, I see this article as a victory for our side: they admitted the Second Amendment does indeed protect individual citizens' right to keep and bear arms. Why would it need to be repealed if it didn't prevent the type of laws they want to pass?

Guess what? It does!
Exactly! Well said. While the lack of knowledge of history and reasoning in this article is both astounding and depressing -- coming as it does from a vaunted Ivory League institution of "higher learning" -- it is more intellectually honest than those who would defang the 2nd Amendment through the death of a 1,000 cuts of "gun control."
 
You know what? They KNOW the truth. They KNOW they can't convince us. This piece is directed at fence-sitters. We all must remember, a lie left unchallenged becomes the truth.

Public opinion overwhelmingly contradicts this opinion. It is up to US to make sure it stays that way.
 
Instead, the Second Amendment should be replaced with federal statues designed to tightly regulate gun ownership.

Maybe he is thinking the big one of Lincoln, Jefferson, or FDR... the federal statues already in place in Washington?

I agree... those statues should be the ones tightly regulating gun ownership. Somebody, quick! Run up the stairs and ask that big statue of Lincoln what it will do to regulate gun ownership.
 
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