Reply from BATF regarding Thompson Encore question

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So, in the Big Scheme of Things, how does this really matter?

So long as you begin with a pistol, you can freely change it to a rifle...and back, so long as no inspection is made by any authority.

If you are found to be hunting, defending or whatever, with a pistol frame converted to a rifle configuration...no harm no foul. Once this discovery is made and documented, the pistol is now a rifle and cannot go back lest you get in trouble if inspected again.

So long as you don't run afoul of someone who 'cares', who is to know that you have ever changed it one way or the other?

I'd not worry too much as long as you are temporarily converting a pistol. Converting a rifle to pistol...if you are discovered, would be bad.
 
It's interesting that this letter considers the simple changing of furniture as 'manufacturing'. The Bureau of Alterations, Tales, Fabrications, and Everything recently put out an edict that refinishing is manufacturing. I guess if a manufacturer has a procedure for laborer nose picking, then nose picking is a manufacturing process, and nose picking within a 1000 feet of a gun will come under their auspices too.

They seem to be weaving a framework where anything done to a gun by an owner will require a license.
 
I've got a headache from reading this crap. This whole thing is beyond stupid.

recently put out an edict that refinishing is manufacturing.
That's a bit misleading. You have to be purchasing guns for the purpose of refinishing and then reselling.

They seem to be weaving a framework where anything done to a gun by an owner will require a license.
Yep, that's how the government works. Usually the "reasonable restrictions" line is thrown in there somewhere for good measure.
 
What about BP revolvers with attachable/detachable shoulder stocks? Are they not technically firearms and therefore exempt from these stupid rules?
 
So, you put the shoulder stock on the P08 Artillery...and you can never take it back off without going to jail.
 
So, you put the shoulder stock on the P08 Artillery...and you can never take it back off without going to jail.
Actually, many original artillery lugers and original shoulder stocks are exempt from NFA requirements.
http://atf.treas.gov/firearms/curios/sec3.htm
Luger, Artillery model, pistols having chamber dates of 1914 through 1918 or 1920, having German Weimar Navy markings consisting of the letter M over an anchor and a German Navy property number accompanied by original Artillery Luger flat board stocks, bearing German Weimar Navy markings of the letter M over an anchor with or without Navy property numbers.
Luger, the 1920 Commercial Artillery model, pistols as mfd. by DWM or Erfurt, having undated chambers, commercial proofmarks, and bearing the inscription Germany or Made in Germany on the receiver and accompanied by original, German mfd., artillery type, detachable wooden shoulder stocks.
Luger, DWM Pistol, model 1900, 1902, or 1906, in 7.65 Luger or 9mm parabellum cal., having the American Eagle chamber crest, and barrel lengths of either 4" or 4-3/4, with original detachable Ideal shoulder stocks and Ideal frame grips.
DWM Luger, Original models 1904, 1906, 1908, 1914 and 1920. Naval pistols in 9mm parabellum or 7.65mm cal., in both the Commercial and Naval military varieties; in both altered and unaltered barrel lengths in themodel 1904 and in both altered and unaltered safety markings in the model 1906; with original board-type detachable shoulder stocks bearing brass or iron discs, with or without markings, or, if without brass or iron discs, being of the Navy flat board-type. This exemption applies only to the listed Naval Luger pistols if mated to the Naval Luger stock and will not apply if theNaval Luger pistol is mated to the Artillery stock. The Naval stock has an overall dimension of 12-3/4", a rear width of 4-5/8", a front width of 1-1/2", a rear thickness of 9/16", and a front thickness of l-3/16".
Luger, DWM Stoeger model 1920 and 1923, semiautomatic pistols in 7.65mm or 9mm parabellum cal., in barrel lengths of 8, 10, 12, and 12-1/2", having either American Eagle chamber crests and/or Stoeger frame and/or upper receiver marks, having either standard, Navy or artillery rear sights, having extractors marked either "Loaded" or "Geladen" and having frame safety markings of either "Gesichert" or "Safe," together w/original commercial flat board stocks of the artillery type, which bear no S/Ns or military proof marks;may include a "Germany" marking.
Luger, DWM Pistol-Carbine, model 1920, 7.65mm or 9mm parabellum cal., with accompanying original commercial type shoulder stock, with or without forearm piece, having barrel lengths of 11-3/4" to less than 16".
Luger, German model 1914, Artillery model pistol, mfd. by DWM or Erfurt, having chambers dated 1914 - -1918, bearing Imperial German military proofmarks & accompanied by original, German mfd., artillery type, detachable wooden shoulder stocks.
Luger, model 1902, Pistol-Carbine, 7.65mm Luger with original commercial type shoulder stock and forearm and 11-3/4" barrel.
Luger, Persian (Iranian) Artillery model, pistols, as mfd. by Mauser prior to 1945, accompanied by the original artillery type, detachable wooden shoulder stock, bearing a S/N in Farsi characters stamped into the wood on the left side.
Luger, semiautomatic pistol, certain variations with Benke-Thiemann folding shoulder stock.

What about BP revolvers with attachable/detachable shoulder stocks? Are they not technically firearms and therefore exempt from these stupid rules?
Generally, BP firearms are exempt from NFA requirements. Hidden firearm blackpowder AOW's, however, must be registered.
 
Hidden firearm blackpowder AOW's, however, must be registered.

I don't think so... I've seen MANY blackpowder muzzleloading devices that would be AOWs if they were using fixed ammo, but they aren't, so they aren't AOWs. At least, that's what the 1934NFA and 1968GCA say....
 
I don't think so... I've seen MANY blackpowder muzzleloading devices that would be AOWs if they were using fixed ammo, but they aren't, so they aren't AOWs. At least, that's what the 1934NFA and 1968GCA say....
Whether or not that may be true under the most technical interpretation of the law, ATF has- both in letters and in practice- determined that they are AOW's. With this circumstance, there are two options--> to risk free room and board with Bubba for a few years, or listen to what may or may not be the interpretation that a jury of your uninformed peers will hear spew from the lips of an AUSA and "expert" ATF FTB personnel. Well over 80% of federal cases end in conviction. I don't like those odds.
 
You just cannot get consistant answers from ATF. They have previously stated that you CAN convert a pistol into a rifle and then back into a pistol.

For example: Glock pistol to rifle conversion.

Wrong, when you buy that conversion for a glock pistol to a rifle, the conversion is REGISTERED as another firearm (because it is a receiver), which is what the ATF said in their response. When you get one of those conversions, you have two guns registered to two different serial numbers, it just happens that your "glock rifle" uses your pistols frame, frames are not considered firearms and are not registered. Thats why you can order parts direct to your house, the receiver and slide are what ATF considers "Firearms" which must be shipped to FFL's
 
Huh

it just happens that your "glock rifle" uses your pistols frame, frames are not considered firearms and are not registered.
You better believe they are.

The frame is the serial numbered part of the Glock. Frames on pistols are generally the part you are filling the paper work out for. I've never seen a slide considered a gun. The closest thing I can think of to that would be the Ruger MKI/II/III series. I believe the upper part of the gun is considered the actual gun.

As far as I can tell, you do not need the services of an FFL to buy the MecTech kit. The Glock frame is the serial numbered part of the carbine and thus remains the "actual" gun.
 
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