gvnwst
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Looks good.
Requirements Set For Ultimate Survival Rifle
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Jed Carter
Member
If I could only have ONE?
It would be a......... SHOTGUN! Pump or autoloader with rifle sights, shot, buckshot and slug, got it all covered out to 100-150 yards. Perhaps a Mossberg 930 tactical or benelli M1?
It would be a......... SHOTGUN! Pump or autoloader with rifle sights, shot, buckshot and slug, got it all covered out to 100-150 yards. Perhaps a Mossberg 930 tactical or benelli M1?
Claude Clay
Member
from the muzzle back it would have a bayonet that was serrated on the upper back half and the handle held assorted necessaries [matches/fishing line & hoots , etc] and the scabbard/frog has 3 throwing knives attached to it-1 on the out & 2 on the inside. the AOS front sight would be mounted atop the 22 inch 20 gauge with a fitted adjustable choke and breaching plug. and under that is the 308 barrel which is fed from a detachable box-flush 5 round. the pump has a selector for the single-shot 20 action and the 308. the pump also has pressure switch(s) for the light/laser spotter & ranger mounted in front of it. the acog 1.5-4 is mounted more or less above the double triggers--slightly above the AOS type rear sight. the stock has a leather padded raised cheek pad. opposite it is holder for 5 shot shells and 5 308's. the butt holds cleaning rod & such and spare batteries. the sling is padded and so will be my cell.
d2wing
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Shotgun. It's the most effective at close range. I suppose it depends on where you want to survive and for how long, and what your resupply situation is. You can't carry a lifetime supply unless you don't plan on living very long. Also I think 100 yards is very optimistic on shotgun range. I have a scoped slug gun with a rifled barrel. 75 yards tops I'd say. A good choice if ammo is no problem. Some people prefer a scatter gun for small game but I prefer a 22.
Somebody might have already said this, but why limit it to one?
Do you own more then 1 gun? If so - why?
I can assume it's because different guns are suited to different functions. In a survival situation, having the right tool for the job is that much more important.
You could get away with any number of different guns - but i'd say, if you already have multiple guns, figure out your basic survival needs, and which guns from your collection fit those needs. I certainly wouldn't limit it to just one choice though.
Do you own more then 1 gun? If so - why?
I can assume it's because different guns are suited to different functions. In a survival situation, having the right tool for the job is that much more important.
You could get away with any number of different guns - but i'd say, if you already have multiple guns, figure out your basic survival needs, and which guns from your collection fit those needs. I certainly wouldn't limit it to just one choice though.
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
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- Nov 14, 2007
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- 13,146
Update
I had to revive this thread after an expansion of my mini-epiphany on the best "wilderness survival gun", for sheer/strict food acquisition.
Earlier in this thread, I expounded at length at why a rimfire with shotshell would be the best idea since literally the most plentiful food source by far, in terms of ease to obtain with gun, is (what I'm calling) "tweety birds". You can sit still for 5-15 minutes and get a shot or two at some little bush songbird. Not much meat, but it's some protein, and you could collect 5 or 10 songbirds for every squirrel or other small rodent you kill. So the idea of a rimfire barrel or rimfire chamber adapter in a .223 is good to an extent, but ultimately not satisfactory because it will spin the shot and give you a poor donut pattern, and cause you to miss. Also, anything larger than a .22 long rifle with shot will destroy too much meat on these already thin-on-meat critters, so even a .38/.357 shotshell would destroy too much, for example, not to mention also have the rifling problem if fired from a pistol.
So the more I think about it, the more I think that the answer must be a 3-barrel custom drilling - it just has to be a drilling for the ultimate efficient food-gatherer, and one of the barrels must be a smoothbore .22lr "garden gun" barrel.
So, here's what I'm thinking: Two rifle barrels side by side, on top of one centered 12 gauge shotgun barrel below.
The 12 gauge shotgun barrel will kill anything from deer to ducks with various ammo:
-Birdshot for birds large and small on the wing, or pot-shot, or for turkeys
-Buckshot for deer or whatever
-Foster Slugs for deer, elk, bear, hogs, and other various/sundry tasty ungulates.
The 12 gauge may very well cover all your needs, and really does cover all your needs except: small critters such as tweety birds, squirrels, etc. (due to excessive meat damage), and long-range needs. This would come with of course multiple choke tubes. 3" or 3.5" magnum chamber.
So, the Upper Left barrel I think must be a smoothbore .22 lr, as I mentioned above, for tweety birds and even pot-shooting doves, quail, and the like. I think up to 75% of your non-fished meat can be such small to medium sized birds, all "pot-shot".
The Upper Right barrel needs to be a centerfire with one or more sub-cartridge chamber inserts, and I've really got two options for this barrel: Either a .223 Remington, 1 in 9" twist, with chamber inserts for .22 magnum and .22 long rifles. So this barrel could handle .223 Rem with all its many variations of ammo, plus .22 shorts, longs, long rifles, Aguila SSS 60 grain penetrators, and even Super Colibri ammo, and also all .22 magnum ammo with the other insert. And with a headshot, a heavy .223 Rem bullet could bring down an ungulate with ease, though it's a bit marginal for vitals shots on large ungulates. The other option is a .308 win or .30-06 barrel, with chamber inserts for .32 acp, .30 carbine, 7.62x39 or .30-30, or even .32 H&R mag and other calibers. This would be really versatile, but not handle the cheap and plentiful (and light to carry) rimfire ammo (.22 lr and .22 mag). It would also handle long-range duties better than .223 rem, esp. for vitals shots on large ungulates and bear, etc.
So our choices are:
1. Smoothbore .22lr / .223 Rem / 12 ga 3.5"
or
2. Smoothbore .22lr / .308 win or .30-06 / 12 ga 3.5"
Which one? Or, OR, the ultimate may be a rifled .22 barrel instead of a smoothbore, BUT with one of those "choke tubes" such as are found on the H&R Survivor and T/C encore bbls in .45 colt / .410 shot, which are really not choke tubes, but tubes with "straight rifling" which "un-spin" the shot, giving it a good pattern. So that would bring up choice #3:
3. Rifled .22 magnum with an "un-spin tube insert" for the muzzle and a .22lr chamber insert / .308 win or .30-06 / 12 ga 3.5"
Which of these 3 drillings, and which .30 cal centerfire (.308 or .30-06)??
I really suppose the ultimate is #3 in with .30-06, *if* the unspin insert thing really works to throw a good pattern. If so, with chamber inserts, you'd be able to shoot in this 3-bbl gun, all effectively:
1. .22 s, l, lr including SSS (chamber insert in .22 mag)
2. .22 lr shot (chamber insert in .22 mag)
3. .22 magnum
4. .22 magnum shot
5. .30-06
6. .308 Win (chamber insert in .30-06)
7. .30-30 Win (chamber insert in .30-06)
8. 7.62x39mm (C. I. in .30-06)
9. .30 carbine (C. I. in .30-06)
10. .32 H&R Mag (C.I. in .30-06)
11. .32 acp (C.I. in .30-06)
12. 12 ga 2.75" (bird, buck, or slug)
13. 12 ga 3.0" (bird, buck, or slug)
14. 12 ga 3.5" (bird, buck, or slug)
15. For that matter, with chamber inserts, also shoot .300 whisper, .300 savage, etc., but I think the .32 acp / .30 carbine / 7.62x39mm / .30-06 foursome would make sense to cover all the bases. I'm guessing a 1 in 10" or 1 in 11" twist would work for the .30 cal bbl.
What say you? Who do you think I could commission to make me this drilling? Is it possible to do under $7,500, do you think? I'd want the 12 ga regulated to the point of aim at 30-35 yards, the smoothbore rimfire regulated to 10 yards, and the the centerfire regulated to around 150 yards.
It kind of ends up being a "Mr. Potato Head" gun, doesn't it?
I had to revive this thread after an expansion of my mini-epiphany on the best "wilderness survival gun", for sheer/strict food acquisition.
Earlier in this thread, I expounded at length at why a rimfire with shotshell would be the best idea since literally the most plentiful food source by far, in terms of ease to obtain with gun, is (what I'm calling) "tweety birds". You can sit still for 5-15 minutes and get a shot or two at some little bush songbird. Not much meat, but it's some protein, and you could collect 5 or 10 songbirds for every squirrel or other small rodent you kill. So the idea of a rimfire barrel or rimfire chamber adapter in a .223 is good to an extent, but ultimately not satisfactory because it will spin the shot and give you a poor donut pattern, and cause you to miss. Also, anything larger than a .22 long rifle with shot will destroy too much meat on these already thin-on-meat critters, so even a .38/.357 shotshell would destroy too much, for example, not to mention also have the rifling problem if fired from a pistol.
So the more I think about it, the more I think that the answer must be a 3-barrel custom drilling - it just has to be a drilling for the ultimate efficient food-gatherer, and one of the barrels must be a smoothbore .22lr "garden gun" barrel.
So, here's what I'm thinking: Two rifle barrels side by side, on top of one centered 12 gauge shotgun barrel below.
The 12 gauge shotgun barrel will kill anything from deer to ducks with various ammo:
-Birdshot for birds large and small on the wing, or pot-shot, or for turkeys
-Buckshot for deer or whatever
-Foster Slugs for deer, elk, bear, hogs, and other various/sundry tasty ungulates.
The 12 gauge may very well cover all your needs, and really does cover all your needs except: small critters such as tweety birds, squirrels, etc. (due to excessive meat damage), and long-range needs. This would come with of course multiple choke tubes. 3" or 3.5" magnum chamber.
So, the Upper Left barrel I think must be a smoothbore .22 lr, as I mentioned above, for tweety birds and even pot-shooting doves, quail, and the like. I think up to 75% of your non-fished meat can be such small to medium sized birds, all "pot-shot".
The Upper Right barrel needs to be a centerfire with one or more sub-cartridge chamber inserts, and I've really got two options for this barrel: Either a .223 Remington, 1 in 9" twist, with chamber inserts for .22 magnum and .22 long rifles. So this barrel could handle .223 Rem with all its many variations of ammo, plus .22 shorts, longs, long rifles, Aguila SSS 60 grain penetrators, and even Super Colibri ammo, and also all .22 magnum ammo with the other insert. And with a headshot, a heavy .223 Rem bullet could bring down an ungulate with ease, though it's a bit marginal for vitals shots on large ungulates. The other option is a .308 win or .30-06 barrel, with chamber inserts for .32 acp, .30 carbine, 7.62x39 or .30-30, or even .32 H&R mag and other calibers. This would be really versatile, but not handle the cheap and plentiful (and light to carry) rimfire ammo (.22 lr and .22 mag). It would also handle long-range duties better than .223 rem, esp. for vitals shots on large ungulates and bear, etc.
So our choices are:
1. Smoothbore .22lr / .223 Rem / 12 ga 3.5"
or
2. Smoothbore .22lr / .308 win or .30-06 / 12 ga 3.5"
Which one? Or, OR, the ultimate may be a rifled .22 barrel instead of a smoothbore, BUT with one of those "choke tubes" such as are found on the H&R Survivor and T/C encore bbls in .45 colt / .410 shot, which are really not choke tubes, but tubes with "straight rifling" which "un-spin" the shot, giving it a good pattern. So that would bring up choice #3:
3. Rifled .22 magnum with an "un-spin tube insert" for the muzzle and a .22lr chamber insert / .308 win or .30-06 / 12 ga 3.5"
Which of these 3 drillings, and which .30 cal centerfire (.308 or .30-06)??
I really suppose the ultimate is #3 in with .30-06, *if* the unspin insert thing really works to throw a good pattern. If so, with chamber inserts, you'd be able to shoot in this 3-bbl gun, all effectively:
1. .22 s, l, lr including SSS (chamber insert in .22 mag)
2. .22 lr shot (chamber insert in .22 mag)
3. .22 magnum
4. .22 magnum shot
5. .30-06
6. .308 Win (chamber insert in .30-06)
7. .30-30 Win (chamber insert in .30-06)
8. 7.62x39mm (C. I. in .30-06)
9. .30 carbine (C. I. in .30-06)
10. .32 H&R Mag (C.I. in .30-06)
11. .32 acp (C.I. in .30-06)
12. 12 ga 2.75" (bird, buck, or slug)
13. 12 ga 3.0" (bird, buck, or slug)
14. 12 ga 3.5" (bird, buck, or slug)
15. For that matter, with chamber inserts, also shoot .300 whisper, .300 savage, etc., but I think the .32 acp / .30 carbine / 7.62x39mm / .30-06 foursome would make sense to cover all the bases. I'm guessing a 1 in 10" or 1 in 11" twist would work for the .30 cal bbl.
What say you? Who do you think I could commission to make me this drilling? Is it possible to do under $7,500, do you think? I'd want the 12 ga regulated to the point of aim at 30-35 yards, the smoothbore rimfire regulated to 10 yards, and the the centerfire regulated to around 150 yards.
It kind of ends up being a "Mr. Potato Head" gun, doesn't it?
Last edited:
35 Whelen
Member
How much would your behemoth drilling weigh?!?!? Add to that the weight of just one box of 12 ga. shells, and I'm not sure about the drilling. My thoughts on the matter are this:
If you can hit it with a shotgun (range-wise), you can hit it with a .22 LR. I'm assuming of course that no one in a survival situation is going to be wasting shotshell ammunition by trying to wingshoot fowl.
My idea would be a short bolt action 308 Scout type rifle that is carried both for large game and defense if needed, (or (gulp)...I can't belive I'm going to say this....a Saiga or some other lightweght 308 SA carbine)and something along the lines of the Henry Survival rifle. The Henry weighs less than 3 lbs., the action, barrel and two loaded clips can me stored in the buttstock, and ammo for it is light...very light. If you must shoot tweety birds for food, a couple of boxes of Super Colibri's would be ideal. Heck, I killed a squirrel in my backyard with a SC back when I still lived in town!
35W
If you can hit it with a shotgun (range-wise), you can hit it with a .22 LR. I'm assuming of course that no one in a survival situation is going to be wasting shotshell ammunition by trying to wingshoot fowl.
My idea would be a short bolt action 308 Scout type rifle that is carried both for large game and defense if needed, (or (gulp)...I can't belive I'm going to say this....a Saiga or some other lightweght 308 SA carbine)and something along the lines of the Henry Survival rifle. The Henry weighs less than 3 lbs., the action, barrel and two loaded clips can me stored in the buttstock, and ammo for it is light...very light. If you must shoot tweety birds for food, a couple of boxes of Super Colibri's would be ideal. Heck, I killed a squirrel in my backyard with a SC back when I still lived in town!
35W
gvnwst
Member
Okay, if you had a 12ga bore, then a 30-06 (probably easier to get than .308, at least out here in the boonies) and a smoothbore .22, what would be missing? using a .223 would give you the option to use .22 ammo, but if you allready have a smoothbore .22 barrel, is this really needed? While not as accurate, it would be fine, and i think that hunters would prefer a 30 caliber cartridge over a .223. If needed, you can make a .22 mag barrel (smoothbore) and just have a really small .22lr inster so it fits better, and that may not even be needed. And there are way more commen .30 cal cartridges than .22cal ones, as you put up there, you can have a 30-06, .30-30, 7.62x39, and 30 cal pistol cartridges.
I think it would be better to stay with 12ga over .410, as the ammo is more commen and has many power advantages. And .45 colt is not very commen in the places you would need this most. Probably a 3.5" chamber, just if you happen to have any 3.5" stuff lying around when it is needed.
I think it would be better to stay with 12ga over .410, as the ammo is more commen and has many power advantages. And .45 colt is not very commen in the places you would need this most. Probably a 3.5" chamber, just if you happen to have any 3.5" stuff lying around when it is needed.
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
member
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- Nov 14, 2007
- Messages
- 13,146
A LOT less than a Peter Hofer 5-barrel drilling!
In all seriousness, it wouldn't weigh that much - weight could be kept down by keeping the barrels all right at 20 or maybe 21", and the rimfire barrel is pretty thin - the whole thing should weigh less than a 26 or 28" double barrel 12 ga, or about the same.C'mon now, think about it....the drilling is really a FAR FAR better option that a .308 scout rifle or Saiga - get real man!
Deer might be few and far between. Tweety birds are EVERYWHERE! You think anything's gonna be left from a small plentiful critter, after being hit with a .308 or 7.62x39? And you may starve to death waiting on a deer. The answer is clearly a combo gun of some sort, for a TRUE wilderness survival gun, meaning limited to strictly to protein acquisition (not self-defense) - the realistically debatable options are a 2-barrel combo gun or 3-barrel combo gun (drilling), and what caliber (and chamber insert) combinations give you a good selection of both shotgun and rifle. You could get by on a 2-barrel, but go back and read the thread title - to have the ULTIMATE survival gun, it'd have to be a 3-barrel (at least)!! As far as ammo weight, this matters very little. You will have your stash of ammo in your little "home base" in the woods, whatever form that may take (cabin, lean-to, self-constructed shelter, etc.). No need to carry more than what you need in any little hunting outing or excursion. Besides, this is pretty much all theoretical anyway.
Take a gander:
http://www.hoferwaffen.com/hofer_54.php?lang=en
http://www.hoferwaffen.com/hofer_52.php?lang=en
http://www.hoferwaffen.com/hofer_53.php?lang=en
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35 Whelen
Member
Dude...did you completely miss the part about I said about the Henry or some other such survival rifle type 22 LR??? To my way of thinking, the little .22 would be the primary critter gitter. The .308 would be only for self defense and large game. I still think a 12 ga. is about the most inefficient firearm for taking game.
BUT, I digress... you're talking about true wilderness survival and only one firearm. I'm still going to go with a good .30 caliber bolt rifle. I've been working on a 100 yd. match load for my Swiss K-31. It uses a 150 gr. cast bullet right at the 1100 fps. It consistently groups into around 3/4" at 50 yds. with open sights. It'd be perfect for small game. On this particular rifle I have installed a good all steel micrometer receiver sight and it takes seconds to change the zero from a full power load to a small game load.
Have you ever actually used the 22 LR shotshells? When I was a kid, I used to try to keep sparrows off my Dad's martin house with them and found they were a waste of time. Now I live in an area where rattlesnakes are quite abundant. I've found the CCI load a complete waste of money. The Remington is somewhat better, but it uses #10 shot so I'm sure the pellet count is low. Besides, I can't imagine using a .22 shotload for tweety birds. First, you have to be extremely close to hit them, and if you're that close in the first place, you should be able to head shoot them with a .22 LR bullet no problem.
I don't know what area you think of surviving in, but where I live small game is abundant if you know how to hunt them. Cottontails are everywhere, if you know where to look. Find a creek bottom anywhere around here and there will most certainly be an abundance of squirrels. Likewise, turkeys are almost a menace in some areas around here. This afternoon, I went out to gather some rocks for a fire-pit project, and got within 22 LR range of a flock of sandhill cranes on my neighbors place. This time of year I rarely pass a stock tank that doesn't have ducks on it, that again, could easily be pot-shot with a .22 or a reduced load .30 caliber bullet.
But hey, if a multi-barrel rig does it for you, more power to ya!
35W
fletchbutt152
Member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2006
- Messages
- 92
.22LR bird shot
I'm just wondering how to kill tweety birds with this stuff. I repeatedly shot red squirrles and chipmonks at less than 5 yards with this stuff and the critters simply chuckled at me.
In keeping with the game, I'll take a left top .22 LR rifled barrel, 30-06 or .270top right barrel and a good ol 12ga. barrel.
Phil
I'm just wondering how to kill tweety birds with this stuff. I repeatedly shot red squirrles and chipmonks at less than 5 yards with this stuff and the critters simply chuckled at me.
In keeping with the game, I'll take a left top .22 LR rifled barrel, 30-06 or .270top right barrel and a good ol 12ga. barrel.
Phil
I think I am going to stick with my tuned Savage Model 24 .
Upper barrel chambered for .223 Remington, with a chamber adapter to shoot .22 RF ammo. , and my bottom barrel is 20ga.
Depending on .22 bird shot to take eating critters I think would turn out to be a disapointment. Particulary if you already have a shotgun chambering.
I see no reason to carry a 12ga. ,and the ammo for it, when 20ga. will do fine.
So - I am shooting 20ga. shot loads for flying critters, 20ga. slugs for big critters, .223 remington for farther away critters, and .22 rim fire for all else.
Upper barrel chambered for .223 Remington, with a chamber adapter to shoot .22 RF ammo. , and my bottom barrel is 20ga.
Depending on .22 bird shot to take eating critters I think would turn out to be a disapointment. Particulary if you already have a shotgun chambering.
I see no reason to carry a 12ga. ,and the ammo for it, when 20ga. will do fine.
So - I am shooting 20ga. shot loads for flying critters, 20ga. slugs for big critters, .223 remington for farther away critters, and .22 rim fire for all else.
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