Ultimate rifle

[taliv]

I tried for years to get to “one rifle”. it has to be semi auto and it has to be accurate and durable. Those three things are HARD to get in one gun of any price. I tried everything including stoner sr-25 and mk11mod0 and an 18” AR with 1-8x NF

while I got pretty close, eventually I gave up for several reasons, the biggest was barrel life and degraded accuracy of semi autos when they heat up. So I moved to carrying two rifles, one precision and one an SBR.

then the pistol AR craze happened and I swapped the SBR for a pistol.
Then I got back into pistol cal carbines and sorted out a scorpion micro with Osprey.

If I had to walk out the door right now it would be hard for me to choose between (defiance in an MPA chassis with USO in 300 NM + cz scorpion micro) or (impact in sentinel chassis in 6.5x47L + 10.5” SBR with micro T1 and suppressor)

But none of those are THE “ultimate rifle”

 

[CopperFouling]

$10k would leave me a little shy of being able to pick up a brand new Chapuis 9.3x74R double rifle. Suppose I could get a used one...

Or, a nice Model 70 in 300 H&H.

A friend of mine had one of those at his shop a few years ago for maybe...$8K? I can't remember. An older gentleman with a passion for buying very nice large-caliber rifles but not shooting them sold his collection to the shop.

What I do remember is that the stock on that rifle had the prettiest grain on it that I have ever seen in person. It was a jaw dropper.

I fear ten thousand is a little short for a Holland and Holland

In that price range, including a proper optical aiming device (Nightforce or higher end Leupold?) and some good ammo, I might be tempted by a Model 70 Super Grade in French Walnut .30-06 Springfield.

You could get one of those for much less than $10k. There is hope.

an 18” AR with 1-8x NF

@taliv, what did you think of the Nightforce?

 

[Rexster]

The rifle my dad carried in Korea.
An M3 Grease gun (he was a tanker) but it would be my ultimate.

now..the 2nd most ultimate...Blaser R93 300 WinMag with a Schmidt Bender scope.

I like your way of thinking.

My father almost got to carry an M1 Garand in Korea. He was lucky enough to be late to the event, so spent his overseas tour in Japan. A well-preserved Garand, perhaps a pair, are on my long-term shopping list. It is simply a matter of deciding upon whether to pursue the costlier NM versions, or not.

The OP’s “ultimate” suggested, however, a bespoke rifle, built for me, or built for someone, to order, or perhaps not actually bespoke, but built to be stocked at an high-end showroom, rather than a “gun store.” Well, my easy answer would be something with “Sharps” in the name, or a similar-status 19th-Century design, but probably made by one of the higher-end modern-day shops. The guy building rolling blocks in Conroe, Texas, was a leading candidate, until he managed to kill himself with a shot to the abdomen, while removing a rifle from a vehicle.

My interest in long-range single-shot rifles precedes seeing a Shiloh Sharps in Tom Selleck’s hands. If an actor planted the seed, it might well have been Burt Lancaster, as Bob Valdez. I was quite young when I saw that movie. The conversation with El Segundo, in the scene after the shooting, is as memorable, if not more so, than seeing the shots being fired.

Realistically, however, my three Ruger No. 1 rifles have taught me that they are probably adequate scratchers of that single-shot itch. I may add more such Rugers, in the future, from time to time.

If I ever want to have hope of playing at 600+ yards, it will probably be something like a Tikka T3x Tactical, with an optic costing more than the rifle, a top-tier bipod, and a back-up optic. That would probably eat $10K+. Such a set-up actually is on my long-term wish list, which, at my age, is becoming a fantasy list. For now, I am still accumulating accessories for my DMR-/SPR-inspired .223/5.56 weapon, being built around an LMT 20” barreled upper. This may be able to hit things past 600 yards, if I am up to the task, but .223/5.56 is no elk cartridge. Ah, well; my knees are not up to dragging an elk carcass, anyway.

So, for the sake of this thought exercise, Tikka T3x Tactical-something-something, with optics and bipod TBD, if I could convince myself to pull the money from what should be retirement savings.

 

[jmorris]

You want an ultimate all around rifle.

A Jack of all trades is master of none. ultimate and all around are mutually exclusive.

Ultimate is the best of its kind, all around is a compromise on either end.

edit: sounds like a 300 blk to me

 

[taliv]

@taliv, what did you think of the Nightforce?

the NF 1-8x ATACR is pretty much the best LPVO you can buy. it's excellent in pretty much every way. I don't have any experience with their other 1-8x. NX8 i think? Their 1-4x was worst high end glass I think I've ever owned, and their 7-35x is my fav scope ever.

if you strictly want a range/competition optic for something like 3gun, i like the way the vortex 1-6x and swaro 1-6x just disappear on 1x and the NF doesn't do that. however, the NF certainly has a reputation for being bulletproof, while some of the others have reputations for outstanding warranty service. I'm not saying the vortex is fragile and i'm a huge fan of vortex, but the one i had failed in a carbine class (after i'd used it for a long time and sold it to a friend). I wouldn't be surprised if my shot timer showed a tiny advantage for the vortex or swaro, but i can't test it since i sold them a couple years ago. the vortex 1-10x sure is getting good reviews. something to think about.

 

[JCooperfan1911]

With price of ammos at their all time level, I’d get the best Garand $5000 could buy (it’d have to be mint) and spend the rest on reloading components to keep it well fed as I don’t currently load 30.06 SPRG.

 

[sage5907]

My favorite rifle as of today is a pre 64 Model 70 Winchester featherweight in 338-06. It's a great rifle and brings real joy to the hunt. But, I can't let a sleeping dog lie and in just a few days I will have a pre 64 Model 70 Winchester featherweight in 280 Remington. This will be my first try at using a 280 Remington. It will have a Leupold M3 3.5 to 10 power 40MM scope where the elevation and windage can be easily adjusted for long range shooting. The rifle was previously a 30-06 that I used for many years and with the barrel change it easily became a 280. I am really looking forward to using it in 2021. I thought about a 280 AI but I just couldn't come around to the improved chamber for several reasons. I'll add pictures to this post as soon as I get it back.

 

[tark]

With price of ammos at their all time level, I’d get the best Garand $5000 could buy (it’d have to be mint) and spend the rest on reloading components to keep it well fed as I don’t currently load 30.06 SPRG.

You beat me to it. Already have it and it didn't cost $10,000 either.

 

[d2wing]

I don't need it, but I'd like to have a Tikka T3x Arctic for when it gets below 40°F around here.

Seriously though, it looks to be a very good rifle that I wouldn't mind adding to my meager collection.

I seriously like this rifle. This or a super nice classic wood stocked blued bolt action rifle, like a custom 700 or Model 70. It sure would be fun shopping.

 

[Walkalong]

I did not read "ultimate rifle" as a do all rifle, not that it can't be for those who wish.

I took it as what cool rifle would we buy if 10 grand dropped in our laps, which is why my answer was a nice double rifle. Very cool, not something I'll likely ever buy, but would love to have.

I have short range stuff, and midrange stuff that can reach out pretty well, and I have a long range rifle, so double rifle it is.

 

[sage5907]

so double rifle it is.

 

[Walkalong]

Dang skippy.

 

[Howland937]

Lordy, I'm so unlikely to ever be in a situation where I could afford a $10k rifle I don't even know what one is. I'd have to be like multi-millionaire status to even contemplate that, considering the most expensive gun I've ever owned is the one I carry every day.

So I'd want a 7mm-08 or .280AI . It would need to be blued, so deep and bright it was like a mirror. It would have to have a French or English Walnut stock that was beyond compare. Probably a Monte Carlo type, with a satin finish and no checkering to disrupt the look of the grain. I'd probably want it built on a a pre-64 Model 70 action, or perhaps a K98 action. I'd kind of like a double-set trigger for some strange reason. I'd leave most all the hardware details up to the builder. If I got that kinda money, I can afford to contract it out to someone reputable, right?
Mostly I'd just want it to be the most beautiful rifle I'd ever laid eyes on.

 

[Casefull]

Edit

 

[gotboostvr]

I already have it for me. I only have $2300 in it with the optic. Puts my custom bolt rifles to shame for weight and quick handling. In 308.

View attachment 969629

That looks a little familiar

 

[DM~]

$10k would leave me a little shy of being able to pick up a brand new Chapuis 9.3x74R double rifle. Suppose I could get a used one.

A LARGE number of them were sold NEW, for 4k or a little less, depending on wood and options, so finding one "as new" today, for 5k or less wouldn't be all that hard.

DM

 

[H&Hhunter]

$10k would leave me a little shy of being able to pick up a brand new Chapuis 9.3x74R double rifle. Suppose I could get a used one...

Or, a nice Model 70 in 300 H&H.

You sir are greatly over estimating the price of a new Chapouis in 9.3x74R! Not only can you buy a new one for under $10k you’ll have about $4K left to play with. And you can buy a very lightly used ones for $5k and under.

Here’s a NIB previously owned one for $5.5k.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...e-safari-double/9-3-x74r.cfm?gun_id=101103605

 

[MCMXI]

So, you come into a very significant amount of money. You want an ultimate all around rifle. Maybe some deer/elk. Some target, longer range like 600-1,000 yards. Budget maybe $10,000. Dunno.

What’s you’re ultimate set up?

An "ultimate all around rifle" you say. Accuracy International actions are among the smoothest and most reliable out there with a 60 degree bolt lift, 3-position safety that moves the cocking piece off the sear and blocks the firing pin, a fantastic 2-stage trigger, a locking bolt handIe, easy barrel swaps, and they work in just about any conditions. So the ultimate all around rifle for me would be the following:

• Accuracy International chambered in 300 WSM
• Includes 60 degree bolt lift and locking bolt handle
• Pinned/screwed 30 MOA extended Picatinny rail
• 2-stage trigger
• Carbon fiber wrapped barrel with 5/8-24 muzzle threads minimum
• Folding stock with adjustable comb
• QD cups on both sides of the stock
• Titanium skeleton to which the action is permanently bonded
• 50% the weight of anything AI currently offers or has offered i.e. under 10lb and ideally under 9lb all in which includes optic/mount, suppressor, sling and magazine
• FFP optic
• Nightforce XTRM rings (best on the planet)
• 5 and 10-round DSDF polymer magazines optimized for COL
• Titanium suppressor
• Sling

I have four Accuracy International rifles, all with high-end optics, all with dedicated suppressors, all with slings, plenty of magazines, and two with ATLAS bipods ( I need to buy two more). Each system exceeds your $10,000 budget but I won't kid myself that they're the ultimate all around rifles. They're outstanding at doing what they were designed to do and even some things they weren't designed to do. I've used the AW .308 Win on two hunts and shot a mule deer through the heart at 350 yards in nasty conditions, but I didn't have to carry the rifle far or for any significant amount of time.

It's hard to build or buy a rifle that excels as a general deer/elk rifle and also a 600 yard to 1,000 yard PRS type rifle. The biggest obstacle is weight. You make it light and it's hard to shoot long range, you make it heavy and it's a pain to carry, particularly up here in Montana where elk hunting can be a tough endeavor. If SIG had included a locking bolt handle on the Cross that could well have met the criteria for me as the ultimate crossover hunting/tactical rifle. Currently I've been forced to build my own "ultimate" crossover rifles in the form of a Kimber 84M (.308 Win) and 8400 WSM (6.5 PRC). The 84M is viable as an all around rifle weighing in at around 9lb with a Proof Research barrel, a decent FFP 4-16x50mm scope, TriggerTech trigger, suppressor, 10-round magazine and sling. The 8400 WSM is a little overweight at around 12lb all in, and neither of the actions can hold a candle to an Accuracy International action or a Tikka/Sako/Mauser/Sauer for that matter. The 90 degree bolt lift is less than ideal too.

I have a Tikka T3 TAC in .300 Win Mag and used it to good effect this past hunting season. If I swapped out the steel 1:11 twist barrel for one from Proof with a 1:10 it could approach the ultimate hunting/tactical rifle. It has a great (smooth) action, locking bolt handle, 70 degree bolt lift, good trigger and an adjustable comb, and it shoots exceptionally well. The only weak point is the magazine catch but it's not a huge detraction.

Here are my two attempts (works in progress) at the ultimate "do it all" rifles. They're both 0.5 moa 5-shot group rifles and the 84M at top with the 24" barrel is 8lb 12oz as shown which isn't bad. I have a 22" barrel for it as well which would shave off some weight, and I plan on replacing the steel cross bolts for the cheek riser with titanium bolts, and the thumb nuts with something smaller and lighter. If I can get it to be 8.5lb with the sling I'll call it good. I've carried my 9lb Talkeetna many miles on many hunting trips without complaint so this would be an improvement. The 8400 shown is around 12lb but most of that is due to the McMillan stock. If I were serious about hunting with it I'd look for something more akin to the AG Composites stock on the 84M.

 

[LoonWulf]

If I gave up my desire for Wood, then my Christensen Ridgeline would come awfully close to an ultimate do-all rifle.
The only real detractor is that it's Long....
I guess when I think ULTIMATE, It is less about what IM doing with the gun and more about the gun itself. This really comes down to what gun do I want to see when I look down while hunting or fondle when I'm bored and playing with my guns.
I'm also assuming I already have all the neat and effective rifles I currently own.....

 

[H&Hhunter]

I own several double rifles, they’re neat but now that I’m not really hunting DG in Africa anymore they are pretty much just toys.

I’ve got several highly custom hunting rifles one in .270 Weatherby and another in .300 Dakota. Both shoot sub .5 MOA. I’ve killed quite a bit of game with the .270. And I’ve never really got “into” the .300 Dak. I own a Dakota 76 African in .404 Jeffery, it’s cool, its accurate and overall a very nice medium bore DG bolt gun. And with no DG thick skinned DG on the menu, a safe queen.

The most useable, practical, shootable, easy to carry and functional rifle I own is a Steyr Scout in .308 with a 22” barrel and is topped with a NF 2.5x10. The rifle shoots so well and its built in bipod and extra mag well in the butt stock make it pretty tough for me not to pick it up when hunting anywhere in the lower 48. Between it and my 20” .375 H&H I’ve pretty much got ultimate functionality covered.

Ultimate for me right now in terms of rifle craft would be either a Rigby Highland Stalker, a new Mauser 98 or an historical British pattern stalking rifle from the golden period. Post WWI to pre WWII.

 

[jmorris]

I tried for years to get to “one rifle”. it has to be semi auto and it has to be accurate and durable. Those three things are HARD to get in one gun of any price.

They are also subjective. “Accurate” to some would be unacceptable to others. Not sure how many times I heard “pie plate at 100 yards” being used as a standard for hunting accuracy.

I’d also throw in reliability, may be even more important than durability, unless we have a bayonet attached and counting on it.

 

[MCMXI]

I own several double rifles, they’re neat but now that I’m not really hunting DG in Africa anymore they are pretty much just toys.

While I admire the function and beauty of many double rifles, I know that they're not on my wish list even if I had millions of dollars to play with. Drillings are the same for me, cool but not something I have any interest in owning. Even beautifully figured wood stocks don't do much for me unless it's a wall hanger and that defies the point of firearms for me. The only really nice wood stock I have is a Super America on a Kimber K22 and the only other wood stocks are on three Marlins and two Lee-Enfields. If money were no object I could see myself buying a beautifully engraved matched set of over/under shotguns in 12, 16 and 20 gauge because they'd get used. I'd probably buy a really good pair of bird dogs too, a couple that were well trained and good to go. Of course, a year later they'd be completely ruined by a life of luxury but that's ok.

 

[Newtosavage]

We always get the “what’s the cheapest........” threads.

So, you come into a very significant amount of money. You want an ultimate all around rifle. Maybe some deer/elk. Some target, longer range like 600-1,000 yards. Budget maybe $10,000. Dunno.

What’s you’re ultimate set up?

Working on building it right now. I don't have expensive tastes, I just like a good accurate practical hunting rifle. I've been all around the block on various platforms/brands in the past 5 years, and I've come back to Savage. I'm building a .284 Win on a lightweight storm long action and stock. Should check all the boxes I need in a hunting rifle. I'll have about $1K in it when I'm done.

 

[Hokkmike]

I don't know what the ultimate rifle would be but researching it would be half of the fun.... Sooooo many possibilities.

 

[H&Hhunter]

While I admire the function and beauty of many double rifles, I know that they're not on my wish list even if I had millions of dollars to play with. Drillings are the same for me, cool but not something I have any interest in owning. Even beautifully figured wood stocks don't do much for me unless it's a wall hanger and that defies the point of firearms for me. The only really nice wood stock I have is a Super America on a Kimber K22 and the only other wood stocks are on three Marlins and two Lee-Enfields. If money were no object I could see myself buying a beautifully engraved matched set of over/under shotguns in 12, 16 and 20 gauge because they'd get used. I'd probably buy a really good pair of bird dogs too, a couple that were well trained and good to go. Of course, a year later they'd be completely ruined by a life of luxury but that's ok.

I’m much the same as I buy rifles to use not to look at. To me there is nothing more beautiful than a high quality well built and classic rifle that shows it’s been used. Wear and tear on a master piece is to me the proof of its true purpose. I am not into gaudy, blingy firearms. Classic lines, refinement and functionality are what trip my trigger.
That being said my rifles tend towards fit and function over looks. Almost all of my users are synthetic stocked. The only exception being the doubles and my 76. And they all show signs of use and wear.

If I were to own a classic Rigby or H&H they’d have some battle scars too. Just as they were meant to from their maker.