requirments for selling a rifle

[tws]

THR memebers,


i'd like to sell my mauser 257 roberts and could use some advice on the best place to list it for sale... local or online and what am i required to do legallly?

also i'd like to get an appraisal/blue book value. are there any sites online that facilitate this?

thanks for any help.

tws

 

[Blackbeard]

Gunbroker.com. They'll walk you through it.

 

[tws]

thanks blackbeard...

 

[TexasRifleman]

what am i required to do legallly?

Where are you? Your state of residence makes a big difference on the legal stuff.

 

[sumpnz]

From a federal law perspective, assuming a face to face sale, about all you have to do is verify that the buyer is a resident of your state or a bordering state (note: different rules apply for handguns - those must be sold to a resident of your state), and you must not know or have reasonable cause to know that the buyer is a prohibited person or purchasing the rifle for a prohibited person (aka straw purchase). You are not required to maintain any records of such a sale, though it might be a good idea to have something like a bill of sale with copies for each of you.

If the sale is to a person that is not a resident of your state or a bordering state then the rifle must be shipped to an FFL (Federally Firearms License holder) in the buyers state of residence. The buyer can then take delivery from said FFL following 4473 and NICS check.

State laws vary and yours may or may not involve additional restrictions.

Caveat emptor.

I've bought 2 rifles, a handgun, and a shotgun and sold two handguns here on THR. In all cases but the handgun purchase and one handgun sale the guns crossed multiple state lines and were shipped to FFLs. It was pretty painless. Two handguns I bought/sold were done face to face. CCW permits and drivers licenses were shown, cash was handed over, and the gun was then handed over. That was it.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Might want to try again, sumpnz. There is no "bordering states" exemption in the Federal law. If the seller chooses to do a FTF to face sale to a resident of a bordering state, the seller commits a felony violating 18 USC 922(a)(5) and the buyer commits a felony violating 18 USC 922(a)(3). Not very good advice....

AND, if selling a rifle to a resident of a different state, the transfer, in most cases, may take place via an FFL in either the buyer's or the seller's state of residence because of the 18 USC 922 (b)(3) exception for long guns.

 

[sumpnz]

Ahh, sorry. That's an expemption to the rule for FFLs. They can only sell to in state residents or if a long gun to bordering state residents. You're right, it does not apply to FTF sales.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Still not correct. FFLs can sell rifles to residents of any state so long as the sale is legal in both the state the FFL is in and the state the buyer is from.

18 USC 922 (b)(3)
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

The August, 2004 newsletter to FFLs provides clarification regarding out of state sales by FFLs:
http://www.atf.gov/publications/newsletters/ffl/ffl-newsletter-2004-08.pdf

 

[sumpnz]

An FFL can sell and deliver directly to a customer standing in front of them a long gun if the buyer is from a bordering state. State laws may intefere with that, but from a federal law perspective only, that is allowed. Many won't do that, but they could.

 

[NavyLCDR]

An FFL in Florida can sell a rifle to a resident of Alaska standing in front of them. The "bordering state" clause was removed from Federal law in 1986.

 

[sumpnz]

I'd have to get verification of that. I'm not sure of the state laws involved at the time, but when I bought a Turk Mauser for my FIL in ca 2000 I was in AZ, but was a resident of OR. The dealer (while I was standing in his shop) made me ship the rifle to a dealer in OR. Maybe there were OR laws that required that. Maybe there was just ignorance on the part of the dealer. But everything I've heard is that long guns still can only be delivered to residents within the state of the FFL or a bordering state.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I'd have to get verification of that

I provided you the verification. You chose not to read it.

The August, 2004 newsletter to FFLs provides clarification regarding out of state sales by FFLs:
http://www.atf.gov/publications/news...er-2004-08.pdf

 

[sumpnz]

Get the burr out of your britches. I'm trying to do several things at once here and didn't notice that part of your post.

 

[NavyLCDR]

You are the one who came on here posting that illegal acts were legal and that legal acts were illegal. If you are doing more than one thing at a time, maybe this should not be one of them.

 

[sumpnz]

Nevermind. I'm done here.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Nevermind. I'm done here.

One of the dangers of the Legal forum is that some people, even though they shouldn't, take the advice here and run with it.

It's best to provide links to actual statutes when posting here, for that reason. Wouldn't want someone to get themselves into trouble.

I know it's crazy to take legal advice from the Internet and from people who are not lawyers, but people do it all the time.

So, when someone starts a thread like this it's usually best to verify the actual statute and post a link to the law directly rather than than post guesses and send someone down a wrong path.