Restrictive States-How do you keep from losing your mind??

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But let's talk about guns. I'm glad I'm not in Chicago, or NJ, or Maryland, but California is bad enough. Bad enough to finally open my eyes.

I couldn't agree with you more. I've found myself in a similar situation. I read every CA firearm law on the books. (ouch, there are many...)

If not a lawyer, it has made me far more astute to the legal process and language. I am considering some law school, though I likely will never take the Bar (own several buisnesses already, I just want to be better armed than the next guys.)


I woke the hell up when I found out we couldn't own AR-15s, so I bought a bunch of other guns that perform the same functions and then some.

I'm now saving up for some .50cals. Going to start with a (PRK legal, perplexingly) belt-fed semi-auto Browning M2HB :D :D :D :D :D


This Californian too, is making a stand. I WILL have my CCW soon, and I am going to one day soon have NFA items.

None of it is easy in CA, but much is possible.
 
Part of the reason that California is so bad is that many pro-gunners have moved out of this state to avoid having their freedom infringed upon - hence, they no longer vote in this state, let alone write their former representatives. The direct result is the draconian set of laws that are in effect in this state today.

I, for one, will be keeping the fight right here in California, and I have lessened respect for those who run away to other states, leaving us more vulnerable to the whims of those who would disarm us.
 
stv, Antherd, Anti-bubba,

I salute you for your decision to stay in this god-awful state, fighting for 2nd amendment rights. I had no intention of leaving, myself. Until I found out I had child on the way. I can not subject my daughter to the laws of this state. I want her to grow up free. Therefore, I am moving my family to Oregon, where the laws are better. I will help the cause in Oregon by working for the further advancement of our rights.
I understand what stv is saying about remaining in CA and fighting. It's what I have done for years. But I won't raise my daughter in slavery. The turning point for me was when I started thinking, and realized that by simply picking my daughter up from school here, I would be commiting a felony, since I go nowhere without a Leatherman.
I'm tired of my native country. I'm immigrating to the USA so my daughter can have a better life. That's how I see it. Last year, CA was ranked 44th in education. OR was 32nd. Not the best, but it's an improvement.
For those who choose to stay here, I have the utmost respect. Maybe CA isn't without hope. Maybe we won't lose the state to Mexico within ten years.
I'm not sure where I was going with this, so I'll shut up now.
 
I used to live in the PRNJ. I moved for reasons having nothing to do with guns, but I'd never go back because of guns. I now have a CHL, and can buy whatever I want to (well, at least what the federal overlords will allow us to buy). There are ranges everywhere, and a gun show every month. Compared to the PRNJ, TX is a paradise of freedom.

While in the PRNJ, I did what El Tejon did - peaceful resistance. I went to many gun shows in PA (and loved the sign on Route 78 as you entered the state which said, "America starts here") and purchased many things that were, oh, just a bit shy of being approved by the fascists back home. I distinctly and fondly remember crossing the Delaware Memorial Bridge on the way to Texas and, upon crossing the border, turning to my wife and telling her, "now you won't have to bail me out of jail." I had about 200 years worth of prison time about 3 feet from me, in the form of stamped-metal boxes with internal springs (i.e. magazines). I don't even want to think about how much time I'd have gotten for all of the hollowpoints I had (several hundred), and I'm sure that the .30-06 AP in the car wouldn't have helped my case.

Yeah, maybe I was stupid, but I was really ticked off that because of a stroke of Flim Flam Florio's pen I was suddenly a menace to society, whereas a few months or years before I wasn't and, of course, no one else in the US was at the time. I felt oppressed - Hell, I was! - and this was my way of flipping Florio and his corrupt, fascist cronies the bird.

I disagree a bit with those that say that leaving an anti-gun state is some form of cowardice or not supportive of gun rights, though I can sympathize with their view. The way I look at it, most gun owners are law-abiding, responsible and productive citizens. When a state loses you, it drops a notch in the quality of life, it loses tax revenue, and a pro-gun state derives the benefit of your presence and tax revenue. Over time, it will become obvious that the pro-gun states are better and more prosperous places to live, in contrast to the bankrupt Hellholes that anti-gun states have become. Sooner or later this fact will sink in, as will the connection.

I continue the fight by calling, writing to and emailing my reps on the federal and state levels whenever gun legislation comes up. I regularly argue in favor of gun rights and against the destroyers of liberty with friends and family (mostly the latter - I have few anti-liberty and anti-gun friends, because I can't stomach the idiots), and love to shock the **** out of them by letting them know that I actually own a GUN.:what: More shocking, I even tell some that I've got "a couple" or "a few" and that I actually go SHOOTING on occasion. :what: I REALLY do enjoy it :evil: and it has the benefit of showing these morons that gun owners are not the in-bred, drunken, irresponsible red-necks of the anti-gun stereotype. I also casually inform them that I will NOT, under any circumstances, allow my guns to be taken away. I have to believe that if enough people know that gun owners are both normal, law-abiding citizens and uncompromising on their rights, that we'll ultimately be left alone. I also boycott anti-gun businesses and celebrities whenever I get the chance (which is all too often, given their large numbers) - why feed the alligator. Of course, that's not enough - we need to change our legislatures (including the national one) and change the laws, but I try to do my part.
 
One day, the politicos in CA have to build a wall to prevent their "citizens" from fleeing the state, as good as the communist regime in Eastern Germany did in 1961.

Keep an eye on it and move out as long as it is still possible.

(Just a piece of fiction, no? :uhoh: )
 
For me, the three most annoying things about being in NJ is the social stigma (freak out at the mention, much less the sight, of a gun), the high prices and limited selection, and the defacto 30-day waiting period to buy a handgun (30 days to get a handgun purchase permit that lasts only 90 days... in theory it can be less time, but for me it has taken 30 or more.

Mail order and buying things in PA that aren't NJ endorsed....
 
One way it has affected me personally is in the bank account. Over the years I have spent a considerable amount of money trying to get pro-RKBA types elected or re-elected.

I think I donated about $1,000 to elect Governor Ehrlich. Unfortunately, the Govenor has not done much in return except to promise to veto the hideous "assault weapon" Bills in the State Senate and House, which were defeated. I think the veto threat had a lot to do with the Bills defeat. That is actually good enough for me at the moment.

I have also contributed to US Congressman Roscoe Bartlett, even though he does represent my District. Also contributed hundreds of dollars to State Senator Pipkin, who is trying to unseat anti-RKBA US Senator Babs Mikulski.

I also contribute to pro-RKBA State Senator Mooney, who does not represent my District.

I also contribute heavily to the pro-RKBA newsletter "Tripwire". The list goes on. I am not a rich person, but I am pretty well off.

And I write letters to the Editor of newspapers, one of which actually got printed in the Washington Times.

I also do my share of communicating with our State an National reps, must of which to no avail. I am lucky if I get a reply.
 
Nothing personal to our California members, but in my area we seem to be getting a lot of move-ins from California, but they aren't the kind we want.
They move into Utah for our quality of life, then complain about our laws and culture. It's like they want to ruin the very lifestyle they moved here for.

We're sick of it!!!! If you don't like it, then get your liberal butt the hell out!!!!

:banghead:
 
Ben, what is happening in Utah is probably what happened in Maryland to an extent starting decades ago. Many out-of-staters moved to the State, a lot from NYC and New England, especially Mass. A number of them, all liberals, ended up in government, including the US Congress.
 
How do I stand it?

Zen Extension, also useful for surviving torture.

"I can stand this for exactly one more moment.
I can stand this for exactly one more moment."

I'm 7 days and counting from closing on Freedom House, and so my sentence in this asylum is nearly done.

I can stand this for exactly one more moment.

Obviously, I'm not in agreement with the various "stand and fight" sentiments expressed here, and I'm not going to apologize.

In fact, I will NEVER APOLOGIZE for any peaceable choice I make that maximizes my own freedom, and that of my family and friends.

I REFUSE to dignify such places with my presence, I WILL NOT enrich their coffers with my taxes, nor will I bend to their perverse will.

I will not be complicit in my own oppression.

While I have concluded that my own interests coincide with the notion of fighting from ground that is capable of being successfully defended, I will also not cast any aspersions on those who do choose to stay and fight under such perilous circumstances. It is not for me to make their choices for them.

IMO, New Jersey is for the foreseeable future, a lost cause.

This was not a conclusion I came to callously, but with great deliberation:

http://geekwitha45.blogspot.com/2003_11_09_geekwitha45_archive.html#106853042517862539

This was an interaction between me and Kim DuToit on the same topic:
http://www.kimdutoit.com/dr/weblog.php?id=P2249
 
moa,

You're dead-on about the influx of northern liberalism corrupting our State, (the same thing is happening in Northern Virginia) and one of the worst of the modern-day carpetbaggers was Kathleen Kennedy-Townsend. Remember how sure her followers were that she'd be elected (with a 3-1 Democratic advantage I'm sure they practically counted on it), and how she passionately called for more gun control laws during her campaign? They were all set to turn Maryland into a "mini-me" version of Massachusetts, complete with a Kennedy at the helm. :barf:

Draconian doesn't even begin to describe the character of an administration she would have presided over, had she won. From what I heard Montgomery County chief executive Doug Duncan was already jockeying for a position in her cabinet - the man who made his name trying to enact a ban on smoking in your own home (that's right folks, in your home) as well as running down unlicensened street vendors (hot dog lunch carts, flower girls, etc.), harrassing massage parlor operators, and, if memory serves, proposing numerous gun laws including a county-wide handgun ban which surprisingly was rejected by the most politically correct county in the state bar none. (I do remember the ban being defeated in one city, and believe he was the author, but don't qoute me on that)

By the way moa, what general area do you hail from?
 
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In my opinion, this goes alot farther than the 2nd ammendment. All this boils down to lack of personal responsibility for ones own actions, yes?

Some don't want this responsibility, and others want the government to handle that segments responsibility for them?

That's my opinion in a nutshell anyway. Or am I way out in left field here?

One45Auto, I was born, rasied in, and live in the same town in Utah valley.
 
If you don't like it, then get your liberal butt the hell out!!!!

I love it! Except around here, you have to change "liberal" with "conservative", or even "American".

BTW, how is it that the liberals can move into a perfectly good conservative climate and change things around? Don't you overwhelmingly outnumber them in the polls?
 
Yes, we outnumber them, and so far are holding our own, but it's turning into a fight. They like to play the "oppresed minority" and "religion can't run the government" cards quite heavily.

For instance, we have this idiot woman from Sandy City in our state legislature that has tried to get a seatbelt offense turned into a primary(as in get pulled over & ticketed) instead of secondary level one for six sessions in a row!! Every time it has been killed sighting personal choice reasons.
The news is telling us we are still in a drought situation, so be ready to let your lawn brown slightly this summer. (Screw that, quit promising developers more water than the dessert can supply you :cuss: idiots!!!)

But so far on the gun issues, we've kept them at bay.

Remember: In Clintons second run he finished behind independent Bo Gritz in Utah:D .
 
Ben, what is happening in Utah is probably what happened in Maryland to an extent starting decades ago. Many out-of-staters moved to the State, a lot from NYC and New England, especially Mass. A number of them, all liberals, ended up in government, including the US Congress.
You couldn't be more right. Between the lower costs of living and real estate prices than NY (but not being that far away) drawing NYers, and jobs with the gov't and gov't contractors drawing everyone else, it is rare to come across a MD native. I've regularly had people (originally from out of town) ask me where I am from because they can't place my accent (I'm from here- it's a non-Baltimorian, central MD accent!):what: , and it is a real event when I run across someone else who was born here (me- Sinai hospital on Pimlico Rd. in Baltimore MD, July 1970).
 
It's kind of funny: When you have a new family move into the ward, you have them stand up in church and kind of introduce themselves. Every time they announce they are from California, you can feel the attitude change in the room.

Usually they do too, and when they ask why later, it turns into a pretty good(always civil and respectful) discussion.
 
Chaim, I have experienced the same thing. Even going back to the 1970s, I rarely ran into a native Marylander if I inquired, and I am one.

Same thing about the accent. People cannot figure it out and have to ask. Not often, but a few times.

Getting so now-a-days, it is becoming harder to find a native (and I don't mean American Indians) American. Currently one out of five people in America were born someplace else.
 
You know, I forgot to get to my point-

Residents of free states, don't let what happened to MD (and CA- they weren't always the way they are) happen to you. When the out-of-staters come in who want to make massive changes do not get complacent. Sure, right now you outnumber them and they aren't that great a political threat. But what happens in 10 yrs, 15, 20 when more move in and they also influence yours and your neighbors children and even make some of the "natives" more anti-gun? Fight those who want changes politically, don't rest on your current advantage. Befriend those "outsiders" who can be influenced. Educate everyone you can to do the same. If you aren't careful you may end up just like us (esp. states that border states like mine- any bordering CA are especially in danger, and VA, WV, DE and PA better look out for MD, NJ, and NY refugees and N. NE watch for MA and NY people who don't quite fit their new state).
 
Amen, Chaim.

Also, many of these newbies have a tendency to be politically active and may start running for office right away. And, they end up dominating the the local political parties.

Be vigilant and not compacent or 10, 15, 20 years from now Utah will look like California.
 
Chaim, moa that's exactly what I do!!! Glad to see others are sticking to there guns as well.
 
I always find these threads on moving to a gun friendly state funny, albeit sad...."Get out of there" "Come live here"....enough already...I live in California and if I couldn't carry a gun I would still stay here...people who move based on a state's CCW laws makes me wonder what else they have going on in their little lives..do jobs, kids, schools, relatives, and any other number of variables play any part in the equation of your quality of life? It makes me picture a lone cabin with some poor slob sitting on the porch holding his gun while ranting, "mine, mine, all mine"...sorry, but this one of those standard highroad threads that really gets old...and I don't like people telling me to move....stv is right, you need to stay and change things if you don't like them, not run away...that is constitutional...
 
Not everyone has the same things holding them here. For me, life would be harder if I stick around because of financial reasons. The guns are just a bonus on top of a monster of a list of reasons why I want to leave Los Angeles.
 
Serpico, you have a valid point. But consider the situation Maryland. If you get as an adult any cheesy misdemeanor, or otherwise, conviction of a crime of violence you are barred from owning a firearm forever.

And if you have a conviction of a crime of violence as a juvenile, you have to wait until you are 30 years old to be able to possess a firearm, assuming you had not other convictions.

This kind of law can put a person in a dicey situation. Maybe one rinky-dink bar fight, and you may be disabled for life from possessing a firearm.
 
While I respect those with children (and just plain other people) making their own decisions given their own circumstances, I keep the following in my head to keep me motivated.

If I run, I will only die tired.

I will keep finding loopholes, I will keep MAKING loopholes, and I will keep enjoying my guns and freedom that I FIGHT for, in one of the most beautiful areas in the world that has become my home.

I'm a single white male, with a rifle, in California. How about that?
 
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