Retired WI Farmer Hitler Memorial

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"The major difference between the Warsaw Ghetto and Waco was scale. The perpetrators largely resembled each other."

Not so. In fact, it's not even close. Nice try on a sound bite with spin though, but you won't convince anyone who knows even the bare facts of the real history.
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Actually, both conceptually and practically, they're eerily similar.

1. They're two groups of racists in black uniforms and coal scuttle helmets, armed with German submachineguns.

2. Their victims were chosen on the basis of race, ethnicity, etc. Do a Google search on "Good Old Boy's Roundup" to see what the BATF(E) is all about. Find yourself a group picture of the Branch Davidians. Then ask yourself why they were chosen.

3. They both wet themselves and initially ran screaming like schoolgirls when their intended victims unexpectedly fought back.
 
Deanimator, my thought was that if the guy is a criminal and it is proven so, then you have every right to be angry and demand the court of law and possibly expel the guy. But as long as he can't be proven a criminal and advocate of violence, then you cannot judge the guy for just what he says, and especially if you don't like his words, there isn't a thing like thought-crime or future-crime. It is similar to that - you don't like what gibberish the antis put up to, so you would surely like to see most of them (the leaders especially, like Brady's) deported to far-east. I certainly would like to see the "traitors of homeland" (our polichickens, who try to gag people, lessen their possibilities to defend themselves, feed their families etc) to be sent there, but I can only think that, I cannot make it an official policy.

Point is, let the man be, let him speak up and oppose his arguments with arguments of yours, cold and reasonable (also, truth is usually hard and cold and it hurts from times to times, try not to make a mistake by mixing up real truth with the facts you want to be truth). If his arguments are thrown over as false and illogical then he can't be taken seriously, if you put away people just because they're a little loose on mind, then remember - nazis also put mentally ill people to camps. With these actions you would put yourself to the same level with people you so hardly condemn. Act smarter, falsify his reasonings and he's done for.

Justin, most germans didn't deal with stuffings anyway, only some fellows, who were judged anyway, but revisionist history is a little critical in the whole issue, claiming most victims to be dead rather because of starvation and diseases, than real gassing up. I've heard that the Zyclon B was a pesticide and wasn't very suitable to gassing animal organisms, including human. Wonder how much truth is in it. Fact it is that the jewish views on history are enforced, others are mostly supressed. For example, one guy here was convicted for writing "jews to oven" in public forum, but people who say "mass-murder all estonians", "burn them all" (estonians) are free to exercise their freedom of speech. That one-sidedness makes me a little supecting that the financially advantageous legend is served as actual truth.
 
as much as I find the whole nazi ideal and the hitler solution offensive, I would be inclined to let the idiot have his memorial. to not do so would mean we would have to ban every single thing here that other folks find offensive as well.

personally, I dont want the man breathing the same air but thats besides the point.I hate nazi's and commies as well...but censorship is the issue.if he wants his memorial to a madman,so be it as long as it isnt something people have to see.(i.e. banner by the roadside)

if he is in fact a warcriminal, he should be kicked out and not be allowed to hide like the vermin rats the whole nazi solution was..
 
Deanimator&Cosmoline, stick your head in a bucket of cold water and cool down. IF I would enforce same policy you here advocate, then every american soldier of that period should be hanged - they're raison d'etre was to kill every single german and japanese alive, exactly what you're saying.
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So GI's were the moral equivalent of SS men :D :D It's lucky for you they weren't, since we would have atomized E. Europe and the USSR in the late 1940's if we had been. It amazes me how quickly Europeons forget their own past, and revise history to make the bad guys good and the good guys bad.

Anyway, are you saying we don't have a right to exclude SS men from US citizenship? That's absurd. I'm sure Estonia has far more restrictive immigration policies than we do.

we have had these for centuries and many times.
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That doesn't make you much of authority on right & wrong. It's like a fifth generation dry drunk lecturing me about the evils of my nightly IPA.
 
Cosmoline, are you claiming me to be a drunkard? That is a bad juju, men are killed for lesser things :uhoh:
That doesn't make you much of authority on right & wrong. It's like a fifth generation dry drunk lecturing me about the evils of my nightly IPA.
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Also, does that mean that I must bow to your great wisdom& knowledge of right and wrong?
We have not forgotten our pasts (all the naggings, fights, massacres, betrayals), but you seem to forget the truth and make the lack of it up with wants. But let it be. My point was that the US army in Europe had only one purpose - to crush Germany and during the crushing kill as many germans as possible. They didn't go to Europe to picnic and have a blast, did they? This is exactly, what the german army was by your saying - kill every single gypsy, jew, mentally ill etc- , or any other army. If you condemn one, condemn the others as well, or it is hippocracy. This whole deal has gone to blind-bashing nazis and germans as well, especially equalling them, saying out whatever comes to mouth without thinking. This is hippocracy, ignorant and unprofessional behaviour and shall not be tolerated.
IMHO the venerable nazi-suspect is the least of your problems that must be attended, here too publicity hunts nazi symbolics and act, but other problems are let freely to roam around, and far more serious problems. This guy is also a pseudoproblem, something to drive your attention to, to keep other more serious things under cover.
 
Yeah, but last time I checked, American ideals in WWII didn't involve stuffing Jews into ovens.
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No but American ideals did involve stuffing lots of Japanese who WERE US citizens into detainment camps (and yes there is definitely a difference of degree between the two acts but the thought is the same and if truth be known I'd bet there were a whole lot of Americans living on the west coast during the war that would have gladly stuffed Japanese into ovens - they sure had no problem stuffing their property into their pockets and bank accounts). Add to that the regular fire bombings of Tokyo who's only purpose was to break the will of the Japanese civilian by burning to death 100's of thousands of them and some might argue that there is little difference between our treatment of the Japanese and the German's treatment of those they considered undesirables - it's all a matter of degree and intent. On both sides the intent was to eliminate a threat - real or perceived - to the nation.

In war bad things happen - some on purpose and for legitimate reasons (I suppose though that the winner in any war gets to define legitimate - which is a big part of why this discussion is even occuring). Some bad things happen in order to stir the pot and serve up the emotion needed to generate the hatred required to get otherwise sane people to do silly things like attack machine gun nests or give up meat 2 days a week. Some bad things happen just to serve the evil ends of politicians.

No one is innocent in war. Nations, populations, individual persons - they all fight for their own reasons and those reasons seem like good reasons to those doing the fighting on all sides. Absent good reasons to fight - people won't!

Were the SS a bunch of brainwashed demons? By the standards of the allies most assuredly. By the standards of the German people I'd bet they were considered patriotic warriors serving the cause.

Is the guy in WI evil or just a whacko? Beats me - but by the standards of the United States of America, which most here profess to believe and many here have served to preserve it really doesn't matter - he has every right to raise a shrine to whom ever he wishes and to do so without restraint; the 1st Amendment says he does. To those who think differently - DEAL WITH IT or choke on the hypocrisy.

Don't like the shrine - then don't visit it. Another option might be to picket the site as an active exercise in free speech. Undoubtedly there are other options as well. One thing I am sure of though is that playing beaurocratic games (which the local pols are doing) to prevent the raising of the shrine in direct opposition to one of - if not the - prime rights held most dear by the people of the United States of America is not the answer to what some perceive as a problem.

Denying that Wisconsin farmer the right to raise his shrine by either thought or deed makes the deniers no better than those whom they profess to revile.

Wake up people. In a land of the free sometimes another's exercise of freedom may be offensive and we don't have a right not to be offended (though I imagine the PC crowd think different).
 
Deanimator, my thought was that if the guy is a criminal and it is proven so, then you have every right to be angry and demand the court of law and possibly expel the guy. But as long as he can't be proven a criminal and advocate of violence, then you cannot judge the guy for just what he says, and especially if you don't like his words, there isn't a thing like thought-crime or future-crime.
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He says he was an SS man. Did they ask him what he did prior to coming to the United States? Did he tell them the truth? Bet he didn't. That's grounds for deportation. Don't believe me? Ask John Demjanjuk.

I only need to judge him by what he IS.
 
Cosmoline, are you claiming me to be a drunkard?
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I'm comparing a European lecturing an American about the relative merits of serving the SS and serving the US army with a dry drunk lecturing me about how evil my glass of IPA is. The drunk has no credibility on the subject, and no room to talk. He's just trying to foist all of his personal misdeeds on a chemical compound, just as the Europeans blame all the horrible things they did to each other in the past 100 years on WAR. WAR is evil in their opinion, they're not evil. In other words, Hitler was not evil because of the murder of so many innocents, he was evil because he waged an illegal war. And anyone who fights a war is equal, with all of them deemed victims of combat no matter which side they fought on. In this world view, Hitler would have been fine and legitimate if he'd simply not invaded Poland and France.

But let it be. My point was that the US army in Europe had only one purpose - to crush Germany and during the crushing kill as many germans as possible.
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No, the purpose of the US military was to LIBERATE Europe, including Germany. If we'd been trying to slaughter every last Krautlander, why the devil do I still have to listen to so many of them quip and moan these days? We had MILLIONS of them, both unarmed civilians and POW's, under our guns. We could have slaughtered most of the population of Western Germany by simply feeding them into their own concentration camps.

he has every right to raise a shrine to whom ever he wishes and to do so without restraint; the 1st Amendment says he does. To those who think differently - DEAL WITH IT or choke on the hypocrisy.
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And if he lied about his military history on his immigration forms, we have every right to boot him out. And we should.
 
No but American ideals did involve stuffing lots of Japanese who WERE US citizens into detainment camps (and yes there is definitely a difference of degree between the two acts but the thought is the same and if truth be known I'd bet there were a whole lot of Americans living on the west coast during the war that would have gladly stuffed Japanese into ovens - they sure had no problem stuffing their property into their pockets and bank accounts)
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The Japanese internment was evil and stupid. To compare it to the MILDEST things the Germans and Japanese did is simply foolish.

What was the mortality rate of US POWs and civilian internees in the Pacific?

What was the mortality rate of Japanese-American internees in the US?
 
zee vay i seez it, vee are bekumink more like zee left zen vee care to admitz.


so the guy was a german soldier, so he feels Hitler wasnt all the blame for the wrongs that happened.......

why are "you" (as in the white liberal nancys) so appologetic to muslims for being profiled in America because they speak of "death to Americans" in thier mosks, because its thier free speach rights, yet condem an old man for doing the same in a extremely milder tone?


so what.......its his property, its his belief, and anyone who is offended need not attend or listen.

what this guys is doing is no more inflamitory than the belief of a "Chocolate City" that is open to the public yet still run by incompetents and criminals.


i dont care for either the black Hitlers belief in N.O. or the white ones in Wisc.

so i will simply stay away.:) to say it in a way that should appeal to the N.O. crowd, Zieg Hiel Cuz.
 
Were the SS a bunch of brainwashed demons? By the standards of the allies most assuredly. By the standards of the German people I'd bet they were considered patriotic warriors serving the cause.
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By the standards of NAMBLA, Father Geoghan was a kindly "mentor".

If you only judged by the criminal's standards, nobody would ever be guilty of anything.

If I hunted down and killed everyone who defended Nazis, you couldn't condemn for that because after all, that would be judging me by YOUR standards...
 
Yes, the internment of US citizens solely because of their ethnic background was a serious crime. But getting sent to Arkansas is not the same as getting sent to a death camp. It's also worth remembering that not all of the internees were kept illegally. It is standard practice to intern foreign nationals from nations you are at war with. So when hostilities began Germans in India were rounded up, as were Brits in Italy. We had every right to detain Japanese nationals, and every right to keep an eye on US citizens of German and Japanese extraction or with political ties to those nations. What the government didn't have a right to do is preemptively detain all people who happened to have Japanese blood.
 
Yeah, but last time I checked, American ideals in WWII didn't involve stuffing Jews into ovens.
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There were plenty of Jews among the 2.5 million Russians (including 90,000 Italian civilians with no connection to WWII) that were rounded up by American GIs and sent to die in Siberia.

If you study "our side's" atrocities and try to figure out how to keep "our" politicians under control in the future, then you are different from those who put up monuments to Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Roosevelt, Pol Pot, Amin, Nyerere, etc. Otherwise you're just wearing a different color jersey.
 
Just a thought, but regardless of his original truthfullness on his imigration forms, wouldn't the blanket amnesty which was declared a decade or so back grant him citizenship legitimately? Assuming he spent the required time in the US and did not return to his home country.
 
"Actually, both conceptually and practically, they're eerily similar.

1. They're two groups of racists in black uniforms and coal scuttle helmets, armed with German submachineguns.

2. Their victims were chosen on the basis of race, ethnicity, etc. Do a Google search on "Good Old Boy's Roundup" to see what the BATF(E) is all about. Find yourself a group picture of the Branch Davidians. Then ask yourself why they were chosen.

3. They both wet themselves and initially ran screaming like schoolgirls when their intended victims unexpectedly fought back."
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1. Racists?
2. Chosen on the basis of race, ethnicity, etc. ??
3. Ran like schoolgirls?

If you don't have any FACTS to back up your assertions, just say so. There's no need to make up stuff.

John
 
what this guys is doing is no more inflamitory than the belief of a "Chocolate City" that is open to the public yet still run by incompetents and criminals.
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Did I mention that I loathe Ray "I've killed more Black people than the Klan" Nagin too?
 
1. Racists?
2. Chosen on the basis of race, ethnicity, etc. ??
3. Ran like schoolgirls?

If you don't have any FACTS to back up your assertions, just say so. There's no need to make up stuff.
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You didn't do that Google search, did you?

The turned tail and ran when faced by starving Jews with a few handguns.

The BATF turned tail and ran WITH THEIR HANDS IN THE AIR when the Branch Davidians shot back. "Time" and "Newsweek" ran the pictures.
 
As for people's "ideals", NAMBLA has ideals too. Their right to do so aside, do you ENCOURAGE them to advocate those ideals?
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Well, I do.

I like it when crazy people, idiots, and general undesirables self-identify themselves, and make the lunacy of their ideals public for all to see.

Tell me this. Lets say you have a neighbor, lives right next door to you and your kids. The man is a pedophile. Would you rather:

A) The man kept his desires secret, was really nice to you and your kids, and even had a nice little swimming pool in back that he lets the neighborhood children use.

or

B) Rabidly advertises his status as a NAMBLA member and constantly fights for "his rights" while sitting all by himself in his kiddie pool.

The sharpest edge to freedom of speach is that not only does it allow people to speak their minds, but it gives the rest of us the chance to hear their words and come to our own estimations of the speaker.
 
Just a thought, but regardless of his original truthfullness on his imigration forms, wouldn't the blanket amnesty which was declared a decade or so back grant him citizenship legitimately? Assuming he spent the required time in the US and did not return to his home country
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What blanket amnesty, friend? Seems as if this would have prevented the deportation of John Demjanjuk for being a concentration camp guard if it were a fact. He was deported.
 
I'd be kind a inclined to let him alone. He is entitled to his opinion and to express it openly, peacefully.

Nothing is better for mildew than freash air & sunshine, but I would find it interesting to see who/what actually shows up at his place.

Might it be some WW-II vets with a rope and some gasoline? The JDL? Skinhead/neo-NAZI's? Or the merely curious and tasteless? Welcome to America, where no one ever went broke under-estimating the taste of the American publik.:rolleyes:

One could only hope it just dies from lack of interest:evil:
 
Tell me this. Lets say you have a neighbor, lives right next door to you and your kids. The man is a pedophile. Would you rather:
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I want his identity known so that people can protect their kids.

His advocating RAPE, only potentially incites rapists. He might have the legal right to do so. That doesn't make it GOOD.
 
Might it be some WW-II vets with a rope and some gasoline? The JDL? Skinhead/neo-NAZI's? Or the merely curious and tasteless? Welcome to America, where no one ever went broke under-estimating the taste of the American publik.
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Funny you should mention the first line.

Something very similar happened to the perpetrator of the Malmedy massacre... at his farm... IN FRANCE!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joachim_Peiper

Just when you think you hate the French 100%, a few of them go and ruin the whole thing... ;)
 
He thinks Hitler is a OK dude... there are others who think that Satan is an OK dude and have temples and worship him.

Others worship BinLaden and kill in HIS name.

Don't go to his shrine.... how is that so hard to do?
 
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