revo or auto for woods carry in winter?

[CraigC]

i'm merely asking of other's experiences.

And arguing with the answers.

there just aren't any absolutes as you would have people believe.

Hogwash. Pure and simple. Any good revolver will shoot into 2" at 25yds. With preferred loads, many will halve that. It is the exceptional service auto that will do 2" at 25yds, with most in the 3" range. If you had ever benched and handloaded for a handgun in your life, you would know this.

Another absolute, most service auto cartridges are unsuitable for woods use. Like I said, unless you just want to have something on your hip. In which case a good .22 will do just as well. The 10mm comes closest but suffers from poor bullet selection and again, few guns that chamber it that are good for anything more than self defense.

However, I must defer to your superior wisdom and intellect. Tell us some more stories from your extensive experience, since you've had your GP for 9months and a Single Six for 20months.

 

[proven]

unsuitable for woods use in what regard exactly? "woods use" covers a lot of ground and hasn't been clearly defined except in your own mind.

in your thick headed approach, yoyu fail to understand that woods carry could mean protection against two legged predators. .22 will most certainly not "do just as well". but continue to educate us oh great one.

wow. you can search through posts to quote how long i've had two of my revolvers....bravo, sir, bravo. and you speak of others being juvenile.

 

[CraigC]

You asked for opinions, I gave mine. It's worth at least what you paid for it. I'm not gonna sit here and argue point by point with someone so obviously under-educated on the subject yet closed-minded. If you have a problem with my opinion, which is actually based on knowledge & experience, don't ask for it.

 

[Snag]

i'm interested in what you carry while spending time in the woods during winter. i've always thought of my 3" gp100 as the right tool for that role. recently i've read a couple accounts of revolvers freezing up solid and that at least a few guys in alaska prefer autos in winter due to less areas to fill up with snow and freeze

In the woods, winter or summer, I carry a revolver. I do believe that a revolver is more reliable than an auto and in the woods I want more power over round count so that usually means a revolver.

For something to freeze up solid in the winter is gonna need to get wet somehow first, and then be held out in the open. I'd be curious to learn the order of events that took place for the guys in Alaska to freeze up a revolver solid.

 

[proven]

craigc, thanks for your opinion, not fact, opinion. i too, will not argue with someone who clearly thinks his is the last and only word on a subject. sounds as though we're good to go.

snag thanks chiming in. and yes power over round count can be a good thing. buck460vxr talked of his 1911 freezing up during a hunt in post #37. most of what i've heard of guys in alaska choosing autos didn't go into great detail as to why other than that they beleived them to be better suited to the conditions.

 

[MCgunner]

I have found few autos, center fire autos, that will shoot as accurately as a revolver. Here's one that almost gets there and it's a keeper. I've never carried it afield, though, and don't hunt with it. I could, I guess, but I trust magnum power on game over the old .45ACP's reputation in war or Jeff Cooper's articles in magazines.

 

[PabloJ]

G20, G20, G20. Wee, wee.

 

[TestPilot]

...For something to freeze up solid in the winter is gonna need to get wet somehow first, and then be held out in the open. I'd be curious to learn the order of events that took place for the guys in Alaska to freeze up a revolver solid.
...

There are plenty of ways for any object to get wet then be exposed to sub-freezing temperature. Temperature change by time of day, temperature change by indoor and outdoor trantision. Temperature change by a person with body heat, etc., etc.,etc.

If there's a transition between sub-freezing and above melting point temperatures for any reason, icing can occur with any type of H2O around either in vapor, liquid, or snow form.

The degree of icing that can make a revolver inoperable may not be a common occurance, but it can happen.

 

[MCgunner]

Ever thought of carrying the gun under your coat in a shoulder holster? Seems like it'd stay warmer that way. I don't know, though, being as it rarely freezes down here. I mean, if a big bear charges you, it'd be harder to get at, but hell, you'll probably get ate with our without the gun. But, then, don't bears hibernate in the winter? Are you worried about bear attack mid winter? Seems the safest time of year to be out and about, to me. I know, after teal season's over in November when duck season starts, I don't worry about gators anymore. They hole up. Same thing for snakes when archery season is over and gun season starts. Don't have bears, but seems like I remember Yogi and Bobo waking up in spring looking for pickanik baskets.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

There are plenty of ways for any object to get wet then be exposed to sub-freezing temperature. Temperature change by time of day, temperature change by indoor and outdoor trantision. Temperature change by a person with body heat, etc., etc.,etc.

If there's a transition between sub-freezing and above melting point temperatures for any reason, icing can occur with any type of H2O around either in vapor, liquid, or snow form.

The degree of icing that can make a revolver inoperable may not be a common occurance, but it can happen.

As an illustration of this, I was hunting in Colorado a few years back with Bigfoot Wallace, my custom '03 Springfield in .35 Brown-Whelen.

This rifle has an enclosed trigger. During a misting rain, with temperatures falling rapidly, it froze up -- fortunately, I found it out when I went to release the firing pin after unloading at the end of the day.

So yes -- there are many circumstances under which moisture can condense inside a weapon and render it either inoperable, or subject to rusting.

 

[TestPilot]

... But how could someone possibly shoot a firearm better than one with superior sights, a superior trigger and superior accuracy???

I find no evidence to support that revolvers have better sights than self-loaders for the sole reason that they are revolvers. Either of them can be fitte with variety of after market sights, and doved tailed sight on self loaders can be even more easier to do that in that regard.

You also make a false blanket statement that revolvers have superior trigger. S&W M&P 40's trigger pull is about 6.5 lbs. Most revolvers have DA pull around 10 lbs or over. Many self-loaders comes with a trigger resistance less than that from the factory. P226 DAK would have a smooth 6.5 lbs pull out of the box. You'd need a gun smith work if you want that from a common revolver. Of course you can cock the hammer and fire in SA mode, but that won't be practical when firing the first shot from a holster or firing multiple string of shots when in a gun fight. Even then, self-loaders have a DA/SA option that allows you to fire all subsequent shots in SA mode without manual cocking.

Also, most self loading pistols are set up in a way that the wrist iis generally straighter with the trigger finger pulling the trigger straight backward, rather than wrist cranked downward with the trigger finger trying to pull the trigger to the rear while the trigger finger is curling upward and to the rear instead of just rear. Significant portion of people may prefer ergonimics of self-loaders over revolers for this kind of reasons.

So, there are plenty of reasons why a person can shoot a self-loader better than a revolver, even if certain self-loader would have a 3 inch group at 25m compared to some revolvers doing 2 inch groups at the same distance.

 

[TestPilot]

...Ever thought of carrying the gun under your coat in a shoulder holster?...

From a concealed status, I find shoulder holsters to be the easiest to reach a full size firearm compared to draw from belt holsters when I am wearing a heavy parka.

This may be important because you may not be able to open carry. The easiest draw would be pocket drawing a pistol from the parka's outer pocket, but then you're limited to small pistols whether if it's a revolver or self-loader.

 

[jbauch357]

Rolling around in the sand dunes coyote hunting I gunked up my SP101 so bad it would barely operate. After that experience I decided to go for something with less gaps open to foreign objects, and got myself a G29. Double (or triple depending on the magazine) the capacity, longer barrel, longer line of sight, comparable power, still shooting hard cast bullets, and doesn't have any issues taking a sand bath.

 

[Snag]

I was hunting in Colorado a few years back with Bigfoot Wallace, my custom '03 Springfield in .35 Brown-Whelen.

I thought we were talking about revolvers and semi-auto pistols.

The degree of icing that can make a revolver inoperable may not be a common occurance, but it can happen.

Totally agree. I think you would need temps in the teens or lower and pretty much dunk the thing in the river.

 

[TestPilot]

I thought we were talking about revolvers and semi-auto pistols.

Laws of physics don't change between pistols and rifles.

 

[MCgunner]

Whatever. You guys carry your Glocks. I don't even like Glocks for self defense. I don't like the safety, or lack there of, of the "bang switch" and I don't like the polygonal rifling which I don't think you're supposed to fire cast bullets through. Personally, I prefer SA's XDs in that type of gun. The new XDS has been calling me...

You also make a false blanket statement that revolvers have superior trigger. S&W M&P 40's trigger pull is about 6.5 lbs. Most revolvers have DA pull around 10 lbs or over. Many self-loaders comes with a trigger resistance less than that from the factory. P226 DAK would have a smooth 6.5 lbs pull out of the box. You'd need a gun smith work if you want that from a common revolver. Of course you can cock the hammer and fire in SA mode, but that won't be practical when firing the first shot from a holster or firing multiple string of shots when in a gun fight. Even then, self-loaders have a DA/SA option that allows you to fire all subsequent shots in SA mode without manual cocking.

I never fire a shot at game DA, assuming I'm hunting with a DA. I hunt mostly with a Blackhawk or a Contender, neither of which HAS a DA mode. I love my thumb busters, ultimate strength in a revolver, fewer hinges and such. I think of the Blackhawks as poor man's Freedom Arms. Not up to the FA for quality, strength, line bored accuracy, but hey, good enough for white trash.

I don't even worry about the DA on an outdoor carry. Beside, I shoot DA very well, anyway, been shooting DA guns since I was in high school a long, long time ago. I bought my first center fire auto in the mid 80s, a 1911, didn't like it, moved on. I have a couple of Ruger P guns now that are okay, the P90 is a bit better than okay, and I have a P64, a Kel Tec P11 (I like the trigger even if you don't) and this and that, but I'd still rather carry my medium frame .357 magnum hiking.

 

[lloveless]

When I was in Alaska, I carried my Redhawk in a shoulder holster which was more of a comfort issue for me. Belt carry 8 hrs a day caused back pain. Either way it was under my Parka. I did fall up to my neck in a snow drift I was traversing. No problem with the gun. I saw one person riding a ATV on the tundra with a Glock. Everyone else carried revolvers. This was above the artic circle in kotzebue.
ll

 

[coolluke01]

Besides carrying in a shoulder holster or covered holster close to the body, what can be done to keep a firearm from freezing.

I've had a shotgun freeze up when duck hunting. It wasn't raining and it never got dunked. It seemed like the moisture that was present in it from the house froze when I went outside.

Anyone try WD40? Thats supposed to displace moisture and not allow ice to form. I use in on the snowboard bindings. They are non conventional clickers. It works very well for that.

I've also been thinking about installing shims on my GP100. By keeping the hammer and trigger away from the frame I would think that would help reliability in cold weather.

I have a very hard time believing that a revolver is that much more inherently accurate. And this talk about the G20 not being adequate for woods use because of the accuracy is foolishness. 2" groups at 25 yards? How can this not be done with a good simi from a bench?

 

[Snag]

I thought we were talking about revolvers and semi-auto pistols.

Laws of physics don't change between pistols and rifles.

You can't really stick a rifle or a shotgun under your coat.

 

[CraigC]

I find no evidence to support that revolvers have better sights than self-loaders for the sole reason that they are revolvers.

Service autos typically have very coarse sights made for combat, not target sights for fine work. For a good outdoor gun, you need adjustable sights. Not "close enough" combat sights. If you don't see the difference, I can't help you.

You also make a false blanket statement that revolvers have superior trigger.

This is a blanket statement that is absolutely 100% true. We're not talking about gunfights, though you confirm my suspicion about self defense enthusiasts and indoor ranges. We're talking about a sidearm for the woods. That may be called upon to make a precise shot at 50yds or more. DA and striker-fired heavy triggers need not apply. Here's where that 2-3lb crisp, single action trigger pays for itself.

Significant portion of people may prefer ergonomics of self-loaders over revolvers for this kind of reasons.

All of which has more to do with familiarity and grip choice than anything else.

I have a very hard time believing that a revolver is that much more inherently accurate.

How many have you bench tested? Any??? You want a service auto that shoots as well as a $500 revolver, it'll cost you $2000 and it needs to come from Ed Brown, Les Baer, Bill Wilson, Clark Custom or the like.


As usual, our biggest issue in this thread is perspective. Clearly, some folks have none.

 

[TestPilot]

...Service autos typically have very coarse sights made for combat,
not target sights for fine work.
...

So do service revolvers. Self-loaders can be equipped with target sights just as much as a revolver.

This is a blanket statement that is absolutely 100% true.

I guess this kind of statement expose you for what you are.

We're not talking about gunfights, though you confirm my suspicion about self defense enthusiasts and indoor ranges. We're talking about a sidearm for the woods.

Exactly where did OP indicate self defense is not an intended purpose for the carry? And, for my entertainment purpose, what do you suspect about self defense enthosiast and indoor ranges? If OP wanted to discuss hunting guns, he would have specified it. Is hunting the only purpose of a gun in the woods?

All of which has more to do with familiarity and grip choice than anything else.

If you're claiming anyone can be equally effective with any type pistol with various ergonimical characteristics given the same amount of time to familiarize, it's simply false.

 

[CraigC]

NO Reloaded Ammo is to be fired in your Glock--If so the Glock warranty is VOID.

Really, because all THREE DOZEN of mine have nice target sights.

I guess this kind of statement expose you for what you are.

And what would that be? Smells like a personal attack to me.

Personal comments aside, what service auto has a 2-3lb single action trigger???

Exactly where did OP indicate self defense is not an intended purpose for the carry?

Uh, in the thread title.

I just shot at an out door range at targets at 35~50 yards with a Glock today, but just for my entertainment purpose

I'm proud of you. Now do it all the time, using incrementally smaller targets for the next 20yrs.

what do you suspect about self defense enthusiast and indoor ranges?

That they only shoot at 35-50yds occasionally and only "for entertainment purposes".


Still waiting for an answer to this question:

How many have you bench tested? Any???

 

[proven]

once again....

craigc, why don't you make your own thread? i never stated what one is carrying in the woods for, i simply stated carrying in the woods. people do that for many reasons, one of which is self defense. you seem to have you own twisted notion of what i started this thread about.

as has shown in other threads, people contest your line of thought that only revolvers are woods worthy (for reasons that you can't back up i might add) and you get bent out of shape. move on. and save us all the "i'm more expereinced than you"....it's boring. i stated earlier that there isn't a right or wrong answer, just what one prefers and why.

why not answer how much time and where you've spent in the backwoods during sub-zero temps, considering that is what this thread is all about. you aren't really contributing much to this thread at this point, other than being petty.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

Enough.

Carry whatever the hell you want. If you can't sort it out after 4 pages, you're not going ot figure it out in 4 more.