Richland (WA) Medical Marijuana Patient Denied Concealed Pistol License

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The problem is, the federal law which prohibits firearm possession doesn't distinguish between current or past use.* Just trying it once to see if it worked, (which is freely and voluntarily admitted in your example) is enough to disqualify and make firearms possession a federal felony.
No, this statement is false(EDIT--which upon further review, I see you now realize LOL). In my youth, I received a misdemeanor marijuana possession charge. Its still on my record, and I have passed several NCIS checks without incidence, as have many others I know in the same situation. I was actually worried about this myself, but was told that it would actually take two such arrests within a period of five years to be flagged as a prohibited person due to unlawful drug use. Any other drug charge, at least in my state, is a felony, and upon conviction, you become a prohibited person. "Just trying" marijuana once, or even getting a misdemeanor conviction, DOES NOT necessarily mean you are a prohibited person under federal law.
 
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MTMilitiaman said:
Regular use of marijuana, even recreationally, does not disqualify someone from responsibly owning and employing a firearm any more than drinking a six pack after work.

Federal Law says it does and until they say otherwise, following your advice/opinion could prove to be a huge mistake.
 
MTMilitaryman...

It means just what it says. Use illegal (or controled substance) drugs of any kind...No firearm...!!

ByTheWay...Somewhere I heard(read) that marijuana users were not violent. Then explain to me howcome I almost lost my head during a routine tour of the base parolee barracks to a coyote trap set at head high when I was a Master-at-arms at Sand Point Naval Station, Seattle. The barracks always stank of marijuana laced strawberry incense.
 
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RetiredUSNChief said:
...But when I read through the statute, I saw the other stipulation about criminal conviction that wasn't covered in your post. So I googled that as well, for the second link...
I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Chapter 44 of Title 18 of the United States Code, beginning with Section 921 (18 USC 921, et seq) sets out some of the federal criminal statutes relating to firearms. Section 922 of Title 18 of the United States Code (18 USC 922) is a statute. It sets out an whole lot of different illegal acts in connection with guns.

Paragraph (g) of 18 USC 922 sets out conditions which will disqualify a person from lawfully possessing a gun or ammunition. One such disqualifying condition is set out in subparagraph (3), i. e., being someone:
(3) who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));
Another separate, and distinct disqualifying condition is set out in subparagraph (1), i. e., being someone:
(1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
Another separate, and distinct disqualifying condition is set out in subparagraph (2), i. e., being someone:
(2) who is a fugitive from justice;
Another separate, and distinct disqualifying condition is set out in subparagraph (7), i. e., being someone:
(7) who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his citizenship;
There are others, and each numbered subparagraph ((1), (2), (3), (4), (5), (6), (7) and (8)) of paragraph (g) of 18 USC 922 describes a separate and distinct disqualifying condition. Each has nothing to do with the others.

Then Chapter II of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations (27 CFR Chapt. II) sets out regulations adopted pursuant to the formal rule making process by the ATF. Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations (27 CFR 478.11) sets out various definitions adopted through the formal rule making process by ATF and applying to 18 USC 921, et seq. One such definition is the one I quoted in post 25 defining what is meant by the phrase, "unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance" as used in 18 USC 922(g)(3), and that definition is:
Unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance. A person who uses a controlled substance and has lost the power of self-control with reference to the use of controlled substance; and any person who is a current user of a controlled substance in a manner other than as prescribed by a licensed physician. Such use is not limited to the use of drugs on a particular day, or within a matter of days or weeks before, but rather that the unlawful use has occurred recently enough to indicate that the individual is actively engaged in such conduct. A person may be an unlawful current user of a controlled substance even though the substance is not being used at the precise time the person seeks to acquire a firearm or receives or possesses a firearm. An inference of current use may be drawn from evidence of a recent use or possession of a controlled substance or a pattern of use or possession that reasonably covers the present time, e.g., a conviction for use or possession of a controlled substance within the past year; multiple arrests for such offenses within the past 5 years if the most recent arrest occurred within the past year; or persons found through a drug test to use a controlled substance unlawfully, provided that the test was administered within the past year. For a current or former member of the Armed Forces, an inference of current use may be drawn from recent disciplinary or other administrative action based on confirmed drug use, e.g., court-martial conviction, nonjudicial punishment, or an administrative discharge based on drug use or drug rehabilitation failure.

If a grand jury decides that probable cause exists to believe a person in possession of a gun or ammunition is a user of marijuana fitting that definition, the grand jury can indict that person for violating 18 USC 922(g)(3). That person will then be subject to arrest and will be tried for that crime. If his jury concludes that the prosecution has proven beyond a reasonable doubt facts causing that person to fit that definition, the jury will convict him of that crime.

As I noted in post 25, a federal court of appeal had occasion to look at a jury's application of that definition in a trial in which the defendant was charged with violating 18 USC 922(g)(3). In affirming the conviction, that court of appeal said (U.S. v. Burchard, 580 F.3d 341 (6th Cir., 2009), at 355):
...the regular use of a controlled substance either close in time to or contemporaneous with the period of time he possessed the firearm...
would support conviction under 18 USC 922(g)(3).

Note that a past conviction for drug possession or use is not necessary to support a conviction for being an unlawful user of a controlled substance in possession of a gun or ammunition. However, a recent conviction could be a factor in deciding whether or not a person fit the definition.

A past felony conviction for drug use or possession, whether a state or federal conviction, even if in the distant past and even if the person hasn't used drugs for many years will cause that person to still be disqualified from lawfully possessing a gun or ammunition under 18 USC 922(g)(1).
 
Somewhere I heard(read) that marijuana users were not violent. Then explain to me howcome I almost lost my head during a routine tour of the base parolee barracks to a coyote trap set at head high when I was a Master-at-arms at Sand Point Naval Station, Seattle. The barracks always stank of marijuana laced strawberry incense.

Well, yeah...what more conclusive evidence could one POSSIBLY need? :banghead:
 
Anyone using marijuana should be denied a gun permit of any kind.

Agree. Even more importantly, people using alcohol should be denied a gun permit. I mean, the dope smokers a docile and forgetful, but the drinkers are 6 foot tall, bulletproof with big mouths and bad judgement calls. Due to severity, we should probably work the alcohol angle first, wouldn''t you agree ?
 
How would this pertain to other controlled substances with firearm use or ownership like oxycodone, or benzodiazepines

Only if someone is using them without a prescription would they be omitted by 4473, as that would be illicit use. Prescribed use is licit use. Now, if someone is addicted to their prescribed meds (NOT the same as dependent), then that qualifies as a prohibited possessor as well. An addict is someone that continues to use despite the continual negative impact on their life.

Now, if you're dependent on your meds, as all chronic opiate and benzodiazepine users are, you are fine. As long as you are alert and not exhibiting dangerous side effects.

The marijuana restriction makes legal sense because of federal prohibition , but makes very little commons sense because marijuana users tend to be slow, docile and abstaining from confrontation. There is no psychotic break with marijuana like their could be with other drugs (IE horrible stuff like Adderall, which we pump our kids full of (amphetamine salts))

And of course, the real scourge, alcohol. by FAR AND WIDE the most dangerous drug to mix with guns. except for maybe disassociatives where the individual has no clue where reality begins and ends.

Now, to get back OT; it's inevitable that marijuana will be de-criminalized, so it will make sense to start reconciling our laws now. It does have powerful medicinal properties for some, and that should not mean they aren't alllowed to defend their families or selves. Though you would think that's the case by listening to some knuckleheads that get their drug data from the news and the government.
 
Sonick808...I live in Missouri. Here we can enter a bar and have a beer or two and carry CCW as long as we act like adults. I have yet to see a person high on marijuana act like an adult. Also when you have a drink most of the time you have no plans to get drunk (at least I don't). The whole idea of having a toke is just that, to get high.

ByTheWay...I am not 6 ft tall and bullet proof. Only 5' 7" and soft skinned. You??
 
I think one of the big differences between alcohol and marijuana is that with alcohol there is a test (blood test) that just how much is in your system and the limits can be legislated. AFAIK currently there is no such test for marijuana. It’s either negative or positive and I understand that the test for MJ usage will cause a positive for up to a month after use.
Field sobriety tests will show impairment and make a user subject to arrest in either case, but it takes breathalyzer or blood test to obtain a conviction with booze. Until there is something similar for marijuana what kind of enforcement would you suggest? Conviction on field tests? Any decent lawyer could beat that in court.
 
Until there is something similar for marijuana what kind of enforcement would you suggest?

Rule Number 1: Don't enact unenforceable laws.

Just what law are you looking to enforce? Something to do with specific substances or a more general ban on carrying firearms when judgement is impaired? Some people do not need any outside assistance to demonstrate impaired judgement. What kind of test do we use for them?
 
Marijuana opinions are off topic for THR. As long as it is against the law, it is what it is. No sense worrying or arguing about it.
 
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