Rifle as Home Defense?

[Cosmoline]

I can point-and-click with my Glock.
It's inglorious, unfantasyish, down right plain jane. But it works.

Only if you hit, and only if that hit damages something important enough to stop the attacker. Consider for a moment the amazing number of MISSES even trained professionals have in close quarters encounters using sidearms such as the Glock. Remember the James Cantwell shootout. Remember North Hollywood. Remember the Miami shootout. Remember the team of mounties who were shot down. Remember that poor deputy in Georgia who was ruthlessly shot down by the man with the carbine in his truck. Remember the partisan leader Mordechai Anielewicz, who found the pistol of almost no use in a real fight with the Germans. Rifles and carbines trump handguns, so wouldn't you rather have one? Esp. if your intruder is so armed.

My choice doesn't come from fantasty land. It comes from the real life realization of how fricking hard it is even with training to hit moving things late at night with the short gun. Or even in broad daylight for that matter. The rifle gives you far greater accuracy and a much more devestating hit. I wouldn't poo-poo a properly loaded shotgun or carbine, either. But to select the handgun as your primary choice for defense outside of a CCW situation seems ill advised and unrealistic.

 

[REOIV]

Here's a question for you, how often do you practice with your handgun where you're arms are bent etc? Let alone shooting from the hip etc?

Most people shoot with their handguns straight armed, if they are going to aim them.

So that said unless you've practiced shooting without aiming, from your hip or chest level and without a braced arm to absorb the impact I'd say using a gun for home defense becomes actually much more difficult than using a folding stock AK, shotgun or AR 15 carbine. Those guns are easy to bring up quickly, accept a front end pistol grip and hold/fire as many or more rounds than most handguns.

Hell with a drum the Saiga 12 will hold 20 rounds and accepts a folding stock. All told you could have a stock S12 with a drum for $600 or less. Convert it with $200 worth of parts and now you have a folding stock AK/shotgun monster.

$600 is less than the price of an decent AR15, less than most decent handguns, the same price as a decent AK. It is just by far, hands down one of the best CQ anti-personnel weapons ever.

Especially with the mag well adapter coming out that lets it feed mags like an AR.

Go with a rifle or shotgun if you have it, before you go for a handgun.

 

[simpleguy]

I would love to have an AR or my shotgun for self defense, maybe an AK, but until the kids get older(1yr and 7.5), my primary responder it will be my carry gun. I always know where it is and it's always ready.

 

[Commander Guineapig]

like I said...I live in an apartment.
My shortest gun is my closest gun, can be made ready the fastest,
and holds the most ammo. I think in terms of MY place, not someone else's.
Yes, maybe my 9mm will still go through a wall...but not as many as
a rifle cartridge. (and if those top tier fellows in that Force-on-Force class
were missing, then that means I definitely will be, so I'd better not use
a rifle caliber to punch holes in the wall).
And in my apartment, the LAST thing I would want is a
long gun. I cannot imagine navigating my bathroom-hallway area with
an AR. It is not something I would want to do. Talk about getting stuck
in a bottle neck where you cannot bring your muzzle to bear on target...
that's my situation. My longest shot from front door to back is 30-35 feet.
It's also the shot I would be least likely to make, so every other conceivable
shot it 20-25 feet tops.
As for a physical weapon, if anyone bigger then me gets within arms reach,
I am hosed. Whether long gun or short, they will take it from me or knock
me cold trying. Being scrawny means I have lost ever physical confrontation
I have been in. So I would do everything in my power to keep from getting
in a situation where I am the loser by default.
I wrote what I wrote from the view point of where I live.
A rifle caliber seems like a bad choice for me with 25 people in every direction
living within mere feet of my place.
It's my opinion, it's my only option right now, it's what I would use.
I sure as heck ain't taking my Marlin 100 into the living room to see what
went bump...
Sorry if I offended anyone. My place is mine to protect.
I sleep at night with my Glock nearby and I don't worry about it.

GP

 

[NeenachGuy]

We live on a big property in the high desert; we know when someone is approaching the house from about a mile away. The rifle gives me better range than a handgun, and I think the rifle does better at keeping people out of the house (and the property) than a handgun would do.

 

[roscoe]

None of you folks seem to have children. If there is a prowler, you are likely to have to carry them while opening doors, turning off or on lights, etc. You can do a lot with one arm while still defending yourself adequately with a handgun. I don't see how you can do any of that while holding a long gun ready to fire.

Once you have the family together, fine, break out the artillery, but there is a place for handguns in the household armory.

 

[Soybomb]

Yes, maybe my 9mm will still go through a wall...but not as many as
a rifle cartridge.

Have you read any of the excellent links referenced earlier in this thread? Thats just plain wrong.

 

[qajaq59]

It's easier to point a shotgun in the dark then it is to aim a rifle or hand gun. Plus I'd be less likely to kill my neighbor a block away.

 

[Zach S]

I dont know what you use in your shotgun, but the Federal H132 00 (9 pellet, low recoil, 00buck) that I use in my shotgun gives me an eight to ten inch spread at 25 yards. At room distances I can cover the pattern with my fist.

I have to aim my scattergun just like I do my carbine.

 

[P95loser]

None of you folks seem to have children. If there is a prowler, you are likely to have to carry them while opening doors, turning off or on lights, etc. You can do a lot with one arm while still defending yourself adequately with a handgun. I don't see how you can do any of that while holding a long gun ready to fire.

I agree with you. I understand everyone's situation is different, but I am in a situation where I don't feel comfortable leaving a long gun out even if it is stashed under the bed or something. I can lock up my pistol in my drawer safe to keep children out.

If by chance the whole family is together in our room, yeah sure I would probably break out the 12 guage from the safe to stand my ground with, but the simple truth is I have practiced more with handguns and feel much more comfortable with them.

 

[Shawnee]

Hi Zach...

If you haven't already tried #3 buck in your gun I suggest you do so sometime. You may decide it's a better "repel boarders" load than the hallowed "00 buck".

Hi P95...

Along with your point...one may not be carrying the baby but one might very well want a hand free to use the phone, turn on lights or shut/lock doors etc.

 

[TexasRifleman]

None of you folks seem to have children. If there is a prowler, you are likely to have to carry them while opening doors, turning off or on lights, etc.

If your home security plan includes clearing the house while carrying a child I think you need a new plan.

 

[P95loser]

If your home security plan includes clearing the house while carrying a child I think you need a new plan.

He never said he was clearing a house, you just inferred that. What if he was trying to escape the house with the child.

If your home security plan doesn't include the ability to adapt and improvise, I think you need a new plan.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

First, I think everybody would be a lot better off reading only what was in the post and not what they think was being said. There is some inference on both sides here.

For example, nobody has said that using a handgun for home defense is always a bad idea. The general point has been IF you have the choice to use a long gun (given proper training and ammunition), use it. Obviously, there are times that isn't an option for whatever reason. In that case, you go to war with what you have.

Yes, maybe my 9mm will still go through a wall...but not as many as a rifle cartridge. (and if those top tier fellows in that Force-on-Force class were missing, then that means I definitely will be, so I'd better not use a rifle caliber to punch holes in the wall).

So your rationale is that if very experienced pistol shooters miss a lot with pistols in high stress situations; you had better not use an inherently more accurate platform like a rifle or shotgun, because you may miss with that as well being less experienced? It would be better to stick with a platform you KNOW you will miss more often with because you are under the erroneous belief that the 9mm will present less of a threat than say a 110gr AMAX .308 or a 55gr TAP in .223?

That 9mm defensive ammo will be more likely to cause a lethal injury after penetrating the wall than many kinds of rifle ammo. Seriously, check out some of the links in the Rifle Forum Reading. They are there for a reason.

I wrote what I wrote from the view point of where I live.
A rifle caliber seems like a bad choice for me with 25 people in every direction living within mere feet of my place.

Yes; but one of the reasons it seems like a bad idea is because you aren't basing your choices on solid information. Seriously, Colorado has some excellent training resources like Valhalla and some great ranges with active shooting communities. You should really take advantage of those and get some formal training. You might still decide a pistol is your best bet after that given all the circumstances; but at least you'll be making a better informed decision.

 

[roscoe]

He never said he was clearing a house, you just inferred that. What if he was trying to escape the house with the child.

If your home security plan doesn't include the ability to adapt and improvise, I think you need a new plan.

Umm - yeah. Clearing a house with a kid in my arm? What did I write that could possibly have led you to infer that I advocated that? I don't even think you should attempt to clear a house with an AR unless you are working as a team.

I am talking about consolidating the family in a defensible bedroom, or scramming altogether. If you can do that, which generally would involve hauling sleepy toddlers, while carrying an AR in a way that can be accurately fired, then you are on well-muscled dude. With a decent fighting handgun, it is essentially no problem.

Protecting the family is more complicated than just shooting bad guys, although that is all most people like to talk about.

 

[TexasRifleman]

What did I write that could possibly have led you to infer that I advocated that?

If you are moving through your home and have reason to be armed, and believe there is possibly someone in the home with you that shouldn't be there then you are clearing your home. You may only be clearing to the door, but you have to clear each area you enter.

You gonna just run into the living room with no idea what's in there? No, you are going to want to clear that area first.

So, you said your plan includes clearing your home with a child in your arms. It sounds like a real bad idea.

Consider going out a window or some alternative to having to possibly fight your way to an exit carrying a kid.

 

[Commander Guineapig]

Yes; but one of the reasons it seems like a bad idea is because you aren't basing your choices on solid information. Seriously, Colorado has some excellent training resources like Valhalla and some great ranges with active shooting communities. You should really take advantage of those and get some formal training. You might still decide a pistol is your best bet after that given all the circumstances; but at least you'll be making a better informed decision.

gosh what I wouldn't give for some training at Gunsite or some other institution. Given the fact that I shoot a Glock and really HAVE no other
option in terms of a rifle or shotty, this should give you some idea of how
much I don't make a year. My choices are: single shot .22, single shot full length 20 gauge, Glock 19. (I'd feel really silly with a long shotgun loaded with number 7 birdshot in hand sneaking boxer-clad thru my 700 sq ft apartment...)
This makes arguing over whether or not I should use a rifle null and void.
I simply don't own a rifle (yet), that I would grab at 4 am to go wallop
someone trying to steal my guineapigs.
My choices are: single shot .22, single shot full length 20 gauge,
Glock 19.
I would rather not spat back and forth over this, and for that reason
I zapped my original post.

GP

 

[SSN Vet]

bump in the night.....

.357 revolver manning "my spot" near the top of the stairs..... not going to clear the house....but woe to any one who decides to come up to where the people are.

armed gang outside shouting "send out your daughters or we'll burn the house down"....

I'll take all the horsepower I can get.

Consider going out a window or some alternative to having to possibly fight your way to an exit carrying a kid.

As far as I'm concerned, we're staying put and it's the unwanted "guests" that are leaving.....thank the Lord I live in a state that protects my right to protect my family and doesn't require us to abandon ship.

 

[roscoe]

If you are moving through your home and have reason to be armed, and believe there is possibly someone in the home with you that shouldn't be there then you are clearing your home. You may only be clearing to the door, but you have to clear each area you enter.

You gonna just run into the living room with no idea what's in there? No, you are going to want to clear that area first.

So, you said your plan includes clearing your home with a child in your arms. It sounds like a real bad idea.

Consider going out a window or some alternative to having to possibly fight your way to an exit carrying a kid

None of that really makes sense. Are you saying it is better to try to carry young one with a long gun? How does that work? Or do you plan on clearing the house by yourself rather than collecting the family in a defensible location and awaiting reinforcements? It sounds like you are ready to take on an unknown number of assailants just because you have a longarm. That does not sound like a sound plan to me.

I am advocating the absolutely minimum amount of movement necessary to gather the family in a single defensible location (where longarms are available), and that necessarily entails carrying toddlers. Carrying toddlers means either slinging a long arm (or trying to operate it one handed), or using a handgun.

You also seem to act as if you have knowledge of the layout of my house. Stepping across the 4 feet of hallway to get in the kids room is hardly 'clearing' the house. And, yes, I don't advocate running willy-nilly without looking, but I don't think that the four feet of 'clearing' necessitates a long gun at the expense of being able to carry the kids.

This sounds like a 'hammer-nail' problem.

 

[davepool]

Mossberg 500 with 8 rounds of 00 buck magnums; most likely late , my early warning system is going off(very large dog) i just got abruptly awoken,hard to miss with shot gun,if more needed wife backs up with Kel-Tec PLR-16 and 30 rounds of frangible ammo

 

[esmith]

but you also have over-penetration with 223

This is depending on the load you are using. If you throw in a high expanding bullet it will make a fantastic HD weapon. The only thing is there isn't too much stopping power, plus yielding a long gun in a house isn't always the best thing.

I picked semi autoloader because its designed for close range. However i would want to have whatever pistol in 45 acp. Gives good stopping power.

 

[blackhawk2000]

Not this again



A long gun is always superior to a handgun. Retention is greater with a long gun. Accuracy is better with a long gun. Wound capability is greater with a long gun, provided you aren't comparing a .454 Casull revolver to a 10-22. These reasons among others make the long gun far superior to a handgun. I can not even fathom that there are people out there who still don't know this.


Now for some reasons why the rifle is better than a shotgun for home defense. The rifle usually has a higher ammo capacity than a shotgun. Usually a much, much higher ammo capacity. Rifles are usually quicker to reload than a shotgun. Rifles usually recoil less than a shotgun. Rifle rounds like .223 are less likely to exit the BG's body and do collateral damage unlike slugs or buck.

Now the reason I say usually on these answers is because if I didn't some clown would just come back with this:

My bolt gun holds less than my .12 G "riot" gun. I can load my Saigai 12 quicker than I can load my bolt gun. My .700 Nitro Express recoils more than my .410 SG.

Now if you will excuse me I have to go wipe myself. I just got back from the range and my pants are very soiled from all the Cha-Chunks I've been hearing from the trap range.

 

[esmith]

A long gun is always superior to a handgun

Yeah except when you are hitting walls and doorways with your rifle while running around your house frantically looking for your children. Meanwhile there are 2+ BGs rooting through your house armed. You can't always know how you are going to act during something until it actually happens.

Now ballistically, what you are saying, makes sense. But its not always the capabilities of a rifle or cartridge that will prove its better for a specific purpose.

 

[blackhawk2000]

Yeah except when you are hitting walls and doorways with your rifle while running around your house frantically looking for your children. Meanwhile there are 2+ BGs rooting through your house armed.

Take a fighting rifle class, and learn how to navigate tight quarters, among other things. You owe it your Wife and kids.

 

[esmith]

Take a fighting rifle class, and learn how to navigate tight quarters, among other things. You owe it your Wife and kids.

Im not married nor have kids, I was speaking hypothetically. However, when i do, im going to use a pistol until i take a fighting rifle class. Which by the way, are uncommon in my area.