Buckeye63
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I do like that Ruger in his video !!!
Rings Around My Chamber
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I do like that Ruger in his video !!!
AustinTX
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Steel with only carbon scoring is not dirty — the carbon scoring is a burn discoloration within the metal. It is not possible to remove carbon scoring from a cylinder without removing the very thin layer of discolored steel itself. Removing metal via polishing may satisfy some kind of personal compulsion, but it's not cleaning anything. It's just removing metal (or the bluing).
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sparkyv
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Carbon residue comes off relatively easily with a nylon brush and solvent and if you run your fingernail (or something similar) over the area, you can feel that there's a buildup there that needs to be removed.
Carbon scoring is a stain on/in the metal. It's not a buildup, it's a discoloration of the metal. You can't feel that there's anything there when you run your fingernail across the area and you need either a long soak in a really good solvent or some kind or abrasive to remove it.
When I clean a revolver, I remove all the carbon residue. It's easy to tell when it's gone because any buildup/fouling is no longer present. I don't remove carbon scoring anymore. I guess I would if I wanted a gun to look especially nice for a picture or if I were getting it ready to sell.
Since it's not a buildup and doesn't rub off on things, there's no negative to leaving it in place. It's not like carbon residue which can rub off on things, or could build up enough to cause function issues.
Carbon scoring is a stain on/in the metal. It's not a buildup, it's a discoloration of the metal. You can't feel that there's anything there when you run your fingernail across the area and you need either a long soak in a really good solvent or some kind or abrasive to remove it.
When I clean a revolver, I remove all the carbon residue. It's easy to tell when it's gone because any buildup/fouling is no longer present. I don't remove carbon scoring anymore. I guess I would if I wanted a gun to look especially nice for a picture or if I were getting it ready to sell.
Since it's not a buildup and doesn't rub off on things, there's no negative to leaving it in place. It's not like carbon residue which can rub off on things, or could build up enough to cause function issues.
fxvr5
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I don't get how a 'discoloration of the metal' can be removed by solvent. The discoloration can be removed by abrasive if it's a surface discoloration since you're removing metal, but how does a solvent 'change the color' of metal. Don't solvents 'dissolve' stuff stuck to metal?
I've never had it completely removed by solvent alone, but I have been able to remove it by soaking it in solvent and the doing a significant amount of brushing with a metal brush. Brushing alone won't take it off, soaking alone won't take it off, but if you combine the two you can remove it if you're really set on doing so.
Could be I'm brushing off a tiny layer of the metal (and it's really more of an abrasive technique), or maybe the "stain" is really very tiny bits of carbon embedded down into the fine grain of the metal and the solvent and brushing finally dislodges it.
Carbon residue. Builds up anywhere powder fouling is present. Maybe soft or hard. Can be felt as a buildup on the surface of the metal. Can be removed relatively easily in most cases, but even when it's very hard, a solvent and a nylon brush will still take it off.
Carbon scoring. Only present where the powder gases impinge directly. So on the forcing cone, presumably inside the barrel, and on the cylinder face right around the chambers. Can not be felt as a buildup on the surface of the metal. Can not be removed with a nylon brush and solvent. Requires abrasive techniques, or a lot of brushing with a metal brush combined with a solvent soak.
If you have access to some test equipment, maybe a good microscope, or perhaps some chemical analysis tools, maybe you can figure out what carbon scoring is exactly. I'd be interested to know the details. But if you just want to know the difference between carbon residue and carbon scoring and don't like the descriptions you're getting here, you can just get a stainless steel revolver, go shoot it, and clean it, and then you will see very obviously the difference between the two things. The first time I cleaned a revolver (actually it was the first time I cleaned a firearm at all since it was my first firearm) it was immediately obvious to me that there was something very different going on around the front of chambers that was nothing like the rest of the carbon fouling on the gun. Didn't find out it had a name until years later.
If you have cleaned a revolver, then you already know the two are different.
Could be I'm brushing off a tiny layer of the metal (and it's really more of an abrasive technique), or maybe the "stain" is really very tiny bits of carbon embedded down into the fine grain of the metal and the solvent and brushing finally dislodges it.
Carbon residue. Builds up anywhere powder fouling is present. Maybe soft or hard. Can be felt as a buildup on the surface of the metal. Can be removed relatively easily in most cases, but even when it's very hard, a solvent and a nylon brush will still take it off.
Carbon scoring. Only present where the powder gases impinge directly. So on the forcing cone, presumably inside the barrel, and on the cylinder face right around the chambers. Can not be felt as a buildup on the surface of the metal. Can not be removed with a nylon brush and solvent. Requires abrasive techniques, or a lot of brushing with a metal brush combined with a solvent soak.
If you have access to some test equipment, maybe a good microscope, or perhaps some chemical analysis tools, maybe you can figure out what carbon scoring is exactly. I'd be interested to know the details. But if you just want to know the difference between carbon residue and carbon scoring and don't like the descriptions you're getting here, you can just get a stainless steel revolver, go shoot it, and clean it, and then you will see very obviously the difference between the two things. The first time I cleaned a revolver (actually it was the first time I cleaned a firearm at all since it was my first firearm) it was immediately obvious to me that there was something very different going on around the front of chambers that was nothing like the rest of the carbon fouling on the gun. Didn't find out it had a name until years later.
If you have cleaned a revolver, then you already know the two are different.
fxvr5
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Stainless revolvers are about the only revolvers I shoot. Sure, black crud gets baked on in some places.
I've been able to remove all dark crap from them without an abrasive. I soak the cylinders in Bore Tech C4 Carbon Remover solvent overnight and all the black stuff rubs off with a towel. No scrubbing involved. And that's after lots of rounds of 38 Special, 357 Magnum, and 32 caliber including 327 Federal. A couple hours of soaking is not enough to soften all the crud, but an overnight, or more, soak does the trick. Other solvents might do the same, but I think I tried M-Pro 7 and it didn't work as well.
Are you saying that you can't tell the difference between carbon scoring and typical fouling?
Good to know. I've never tried Bore Tech C4 Carbon remover, and I don't typically soak assemblies unless I'm ok with the solvent in question remaining in the assembly, or unless I know for certain I can get all of the solvent out of the assembly (or know that it will completely evaporate). Still, I'll have to see if I can find some--sounds like good stuff.
Of course, all normal fouling comes off with pretty much any decent solvent and without having to soak overnight, so clearly there's some difference between normal fouling and what is commonly called carbon scoring. Right?
fxvr5
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The Bore Tech C4 Carbon Remover appears to be safe for extended soak periods with my stainless steel guns, S&W, Ruger, Colt. However, they say on their website to limit use and time (to minutes) with nickel plating as it might cause discoloration, IIRC. I don't know how it interacts with bluing or other finishes.
fxvr5
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We're just using different terms. I call it 'baked on'. Since it can be removed, it does not fit what I would call metal discoloration.
Scoring, to me, means something has been removed. In this context I prefer calling it gas/flame cutting/erosion since it is the hot high pressure gasses that are eating away the metal.
Driftwood Johnson
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Howdy
My standard answer to this is that clearly you don't own enough revolvers. Once you have enough revolvers, you will stop being aggravated by carbon rings on the front face of the cylinder.
Yes, the rings are there with a blued revolver too, they are just not as noticeable against the blue finish.
I stopped obsessing about carbon rings on the front surface of a revolver a long time ago. Just not worth getting worked up over, they will return every time you shoot the revolver, and they are always more hassle to remove than the normal carbon that gets deposited when firing a revolver.
Or, you could try shooting Black Powder. I know that is not a consideration, but for some reason, perhaps because Black Powder burns hotter, there are never any carbon rings on the front surface of the cylinder after shooting rounds loaded with Black Powder. Never any leading in the chambers or bore either.
Anyway, buy a few more revolvers, or a lot more, and eventually the carbon rings will not aggravate you any more.
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tws3b2
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Well, l guess I'm gonna have to go out and buy me another revolver or two. My wife is going to jump up and down But if I gotta I gotta.
mcb
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The rings gives it character and your revolver clearly needs more character, ie shot more.
bdickens
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Another solution is to have a nicely worn and beat-up revolver like mine and cosmetics will never be an issue at all....
PapaLePewPew
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My issue with dunking assemblies is trying to insure that all the solvent is removed afterwards, being satisfied that it can remain indefinitely without causing any issues, or being sure it will evaporate completely. I will dunk a semi-auto barrel overnight sometimes to soften fouling, or maybe other individual parts, but I don’t do that with assemblies. Actually I hardly do it at all any more—I couldn’t tell it was buying me any significant reduction in time or effort for cleaning. But the point is, I don’t ever put solvent somewhere that I can’t easily get it back out of so I don't soak assemblies I don't want to take apart.
I could completely disassemble the cylinder assembly (remove the ejector star etc.) and then dunk it, but I’m not going to break down the cylinder assembly even occasionally for cleaning. It’s just not necessary. In fact, it’s not even really necessary to remove the cylinder assembly from a revolver to clean it properly, and often I don’t.
But it’s not just “baked on”. Maybe “baked in” would describe it--I don't know. Even under significant magnification no buildup is visible. No buildup can be felt, even using a fine point to try to catch it with a light touch. It’s not “on” the surface in the same way that fouling that brushes off with normal effort is. That’s why it takes a different approach to remove it. That’s why every few weeks someone asks about how to remove it.
I don’t think that anything has been removed in carbon scoring. I’ve never been able to see any cutting/scoring/erosion, even under magnification and I can’t feel any pits or roughness that would suggest material is being lost. I don’t know how it got the name ‘carbon scoring’, and I don’t endorse its dissected meaning—I just find it useful as a term that discriminates between normal fouling and the burn marks that form on the front of a revolver cylinder around the chambers.
DocRock
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fxvr5
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You can call it whatever you want. Same for me.
I'm not sure why this is becoming a point of argument. As I've said, the baked on stuff is easily and completely removed with a long soak. Readers can do whatever they want. Remove the baked on stuff, or not. It's their gun, they can do whatever they want. Same for me.
DocRock
member
This covers a lot of ground. There are a lot of challenges, issues, aggravations, peeves, and consternation that can be mastered and eliminated by the purchase and shooting of more.revolvers. That's Cowboy Yoda stuff right there.
Sorry, when you asked initially what the difference was, I should have provided this answer instead:
Nobody asks how to remove normal carbon fouling because it won't come off with normal cleaning methods (e.g. using a nylon brush and solvent). However the question comes up frequently with respect to carbon scoring.
Nobody recommends a Lead Away cloth or some other abrasive method to remove normal carbon fouling from a gun. Yet this is a common recommendation for removing carbon scoring.
Nobody suggests that it is necessary to soak gun parts overnight to remove normal carbon fouling. This was one suggestion on this post for removing carbon scoring.
Nobody suggests that MPro7 isn't very good for removing normal carbon fouling. MPro7 is really good for removing normal carbon fouling but it has been claimed that it doesn't work so well on carbon scoring--even after an overnight soak.
Everyone agrees that removing normal carbon fouling is a good thing. Enough carbon fouling can cause function problems, and besides it comes off on things and makes a mess.
Everyone agrees (some admittedly with some apparent reluctance) that removing carbon scoring provides no functional benefit. In fact, it is often pointed out that the removal methods required to do a thorough job are not exactly ideal treatment for a firearm. Not horribly destructive, or anything like that, but it's really not desirable to be soaking assemblies in solvent for long periods (yes it's safe for some guns and some solvents, but there are certainly some real opportunities for problems cropping up) nor is it a really great idea to be using abrasives as a regular firearm cleaning method.
Those are the differences.
fxvr5
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tws3b2
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Calm down guys don't get excited. I put a little hopps on it, let it set awhile and went at it with a brass brush. Some of it came off. I'm good with it now. I'm going to take Driftwoods advice to get more revolvers. Now, can someone give me any advice on how to keep your old lady from jumping up and down on your head every time you bring home a new gun?
bdickens
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Open and honest communication.
Don't spend money you don't have on it.
Open and honest communication.
Each of you get to have your own stash of money to do with as you will.
Open and honest communication.
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