Crud Ring (38spc in 357mag) - How Damaging To Keep Clean?

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reppans

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So I got my first revolver, a 4" SW686, and just love to shooting this thing, but I didn't do my research on what it takes to clean a revolver, especially the crud ring left in the cylinder from shooting the shorter 38spc out of a 357mag. In hindsight, I wish I bought a 38 special since I expect 90%+ of my shooting to be cheaper 38 target loads. Although I like the versatility of being able shoot magnums, it's not worth the hassle of cleaning for me.... I hate gun cleaning.

I've searched the forums and see there are some recommended methods such as:

- Hand Cleaning with Patches and Brushes - Forget it....

- 40 or 45cal Brush on a Drill - This works alright... I pre-soak the crud ring with either Ballistol or Hoppes #9 on a Q-tip for a few minutes before the brushing. Still, it takes quite a few passes to scrub away, and I still can't get it all.

- Lead Away Cloth - This stuff is strong... I got the small patches, which I wrap around an old 357 brush and then go to work with the drill. Works well, but I understand this stuff is effectively metal polish that takes a bit of the steel along with the baked on carbon ring. Removes bluing. Also melts away the burn marks on the face of cylinder.

- Scraping With Flared 357 Case - Haven't tried this one yet as it seems to have the greatest potential to scratch the cylinder, but I guess the theory is that brass is softer than steel. Still, reminds me of a hurricane picture I once saw - a splintered tree limb impaling a steel street sign post. Was thinking that, in addition to flaring the 357 case, I'd sharpen the edge with a dremel and punch out the primer and install a bolt/nut in the hole with which I could add some leverage to scrape one side or the other.

While each of the above methods seems to be incrementally less work, they equally appear to be incrementally rougher against the cylinder's steel chambers. Also, even the "milder" cleaning methods for the cylinder just seems to be more than offset by the abuse to the crane from having to scrub so long, and with so many passes.

How damaging to the gun do you guys think it is to keep this crud ring clean? Would it be advisable to clean after every range trip so the crude ring doesn't build up, or just let it build until it blocks 357 cases, and then give it a thorough cleaning? :confused:
 
I clean my revolvers after every range trip. By "clean", I don't mean a multi-hour rubbing session. By clean, I mean I run a brush thru each cylinder hole a few times, run a brush down the barrel, then mop 'em both with a patch. After that, I just wipe off the outside. My usual "cleaning" only takes about 5 minutes per gun. I've been shooting 38's out of revolvers for years. I've never had a ring build up.
 
I think your putting to much into it.
Never say I wish I would have.
I shoot a lot of 38's out of my 357.
It can make it a bit harder to chamber 357's after a lot of shooting of 38's.
But hardly enought to say I wish.
You made a great choice in a 686, I have a 586,mine is very custom.
Get in to reloading and you will not say I shoot these as they are cheaper.
Have fun, and buy some 357's.
 
I do the same thing as ColtPythonElite. It takes less than five minutes and you'll never have a problem again. Cleaning a gun after it is used is just part of the drill.
 
Cleaning is part of shooting.

Power tools for cleaning a cylinder sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
 
I'm surprised if you guys shooting lots of 38's out of a 357 can get buy with a 5 min clean up after a range session, and not get this crud ring build-up.... I'd be very happy with that.

I shot a box of 357s out of the gun and it looked just fine for a quick clean-up - nothing seems to stick on the ramp. It's just shooting the shorter 38s that have this stubborn carbon build-up against the cylinder walls. Unfortunately my local range does not allow magnum bullets on account of the backstop, and I don't hand load yet (another recommended method to avoid the crud ring is to hand load 38 equivalent powder in 357 cases).

Maybe I'm just being too anal about it :banghead:. Guess I may as well try the quick and "dirty" clean-up and see if the ring really does build/grow.
 
A piece of Chore Boy or O'Cedar brand copper wool wrapped around an old cleaning brush works just as good as a Lewis Lead Remover, IMO.





Edited....I had bore on my mind and wrote "Chore Bore" when it should have been "Boy"....FWIW, you can find it at Walgreens.
 
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ColtPythonElite said:
I clean my revolvers after every range trip. By "clean", I don't mean a multi-hour rubbing session. By clean, I mean I run a brush thru each cylinder hole a few times, run a brush down the barrel, then mop 'em both with a patch. After that, I just wipe off the outside. My usual "cleaning" only takes about 5 minutes per gun. I've been shooting 38's out of revolvers for years. I've never had a ring build up.
Click to expand...
This, although I do use a .40/10mm brush on the chambers. Just on a cleaning rod, not on a drill. The ring you see with your eyes may not be a crud ring. It may be the shoulder that a .357 casing headspaces on. Just check and see if a .357 will still chamber. If it does you are fine. In over twenty years of shooting, I have only seen one .357 that would not chamber a .357 after a basic cleaning. this was an old Colt Trooper that I had just purchased. After about 20 minutes of hand scrubbing with the .40 brush it was good to go. I suspect the previous owner shot only .38s and never did any cleaning. It won't be an issue if you don't let it build up. I like most shooters, shoot a lot more .38s than .357s.
 
I guess things would depend on how dirty those .38s happen to be, how many you fire, and how often you clean.

I'm a relative novice, but have found no crud ring builds up on my .357 if the cylinder is simply cleaned with a .40 cal brush by hand. I make sure to give my revolver a good cleaning after each range visit, but I'm hardly talking about staggering amounts of scrubbing needed.

For those who do have problems with this I'm curious: How many rounds do you fire between cleanings? I honestly don't know what's the norm on that. Do most of you clean after ever use as I do? Exactly how much cleaning I do depends on how dirty the ammo was and how many rounds fired, but it will get cleaned to some extent after every use. I'm sure 300 rounds is the absolute max I've put through any revolver in any session, and thus the most used before it got cleaned.

A lowly .40 brush provides a cylinder that shows no crud rings. There are clearly two rings, though they appear to just be discoloration in the steel from where .38 & .357 cases scorch the metal when they fire.
 
Unfortunately my local range does not allow magnum bullets on account of the backstop,
Click to expand...

Is this an indoor range? Is a "no mags" policy some oddity or are there a lot of ranges that have such restrictions?

I don't know anywhere near enough ranges to know what the norm actually is. The indoor range I use allows any handgun caliber up to .44 Mag, & allows .460 & .500 Mag so long as bullet weight is 350 grain or less. I guess any handgun masochists who feel the need for more pain than that will simply have to look elsewhere.

Does a "no mag" range allow somebody to fire things like a 9mm+P+ that could be packing more power than some .357s Mags fired from a snub nose revolver?
 
I use a drill when i get crud thats horribly built up. I just run a brush through with solvent on each chamber. I let it sit for 15, then I use the drill with a brush and clean the crud rings. It works great if youre careful. Ive also used a drill to clean a horribly leaded shotgun barrel. It took me 2 hours of using the drill to de lead it. If I hadnt, it probably wouldve taken 4 times that
 
I have a 686 4". I clean after every shoot. 5-10 minutes. I take a 44 brush for the cylinder, dipped in hoppes, then I use 44 patches. Never had a problem.

Ditto with my 1894CSS.

I doubt you need to clean after every shoot, but it avoids the need for "deep cleanings" that may be needed if you *rarely* clean. I find that if the cleaning only takes a few minutes, it's no big deal.
 
Wife has a Smith 60 Pro and I a 4" 686P. The wife shoots mostly 38sp and +P with some mag loads. So her pistol does get some crud. I shoot mostly mags. But I do test some of the 38 and +P ammo in it before I let the wife shoot a new batch of reloads.

All weapons get a cleaning after a range trip. The wife puts 200 to 500 rounds down range per visita mix of lead and JHP's. And cleans her own pistol!

For the 200 round trips a bore snake does a good job over all with a tooth brush and #9.

For the 500 round trips she starts with wet patches and the bore snake. Then moves to a rod with jag and Nylon brush. When her pistol was brand new we put a slight polish on the bore and the chambers. This makes clean up a breeze and she never has to get out a bronze brush unless we have some undo leading issue. The chamber build up pretty much falls out.

A nylon brush is a wonderful tool when used in a properly prepared weapon. Even with chambers so plugged up you cant chamber a mag. round. You will never hurt a cylinder with a nylon brush and drill, no matter how hard you work it.

Shooting and cleaning go hand in hand. :)
 
Thanks guys,

Maybe I'm just being too anal about it.

I have 450 rounds through it and have cleaned it 3 times, each time cleaning more thoroughly than before. Range sessions, I usually go through 100-150 rounds. Gun's too new to have built a crud ring that will bind 357s, but I can see it building with the 38 specials.... it's not the mere discoloration you see on the face of the cylinder.

As mentioned, after a thorough 2nd cleaning, I could see the whole stainless steel cylinder wall. Then shot a box of 357s (Remington) and that left only light powder residue, ten minute clean-up would have taken care of it. Then shot a box and a half of 38s (Remington and Am. Eagle) and watched the crud ring progressively build. The crud ring only occupies the few mm's gap between the 357 casing and 38 casing, quite obvious if you know what a clean cylinder looks like.

For some reason nothing sticks anywhere forward of were a 357 casing ends (ie, from the ramp forward) guess the bullet naturally scraps that area clean with every shot.

Think I'll just leave it and do 10 min post range cleanings with a .40-.45 cal brush and solvent. Maybe it builds to certain point and then comes off easier - carbon doesn't stick as well on top of carbon maybe?. If it builds to the point of binding 357 shells, I'm next going to try the flared 357 scraping method.

@KJS

My local indoor range, I assume, has a weakish backstop. The range rules say only bullets <1300 (or 1400?) FPS. So no magnums or pistol cal. rifles.... except .22 cals. Even if they did allow magnums, I would want to constantly shoot them on account of cost, recoil, and noise.... for target practice.
 
psyshack said:
...When her pistol was brand new we put a slight polish on the bore and the chambers. This makes clean up a breeze and she never has to get out a bronze brush unless we have some undo leading issue. The chamber build up pretty much falls out....
Click to expand...

Do tell... how do you do this?

Wonder if it's too late for me.... I spent good chunk of time on the last cleaning and still couldn't get that crud ring back down to the stainless steel (although cylinder face was easy to get shiny new). Sounds like it might be worth trying while my gun's still kinda new?
 
You will never hurt a cylinder with a nylon brush and drill, no matter how hard you work it.
Click to expand...
You will never hurt a cylinder with a bronze bore brush and a drill either.

Cylinders of all .357 revolvers are heat treated steel.
They are harder & tougher then woodpecker lips, and simply can't be harmed by any normal cleaning methods, including hand cleaning with bronze brushes, Tornado brushes, bronze brushes in drills, sharpened and flared brass cartridge cases, etc.

The only bore brush I would never ever use is the stainless steel ones.

Chambers can be polished with abrasive cleaning compounds, and that would include lead-free cloths.
But it would take a month of Sundays to remove enough surface metal to hurt the cylinder.

I use the power drill & bronze brush method.

I also use bronze wool, Chore Boy, or ultra fine steel wool & oil wrapped around a brush in a drill for severe cases.

Started doing it while gunsmithing for 5th. Army AMU in 1968 when they showed me how, and I'm still doing it in 2011. I've never ever harmed a chamber yet in those 40+ years.

BTW: The risk of not cleaning out the .38 carbon rings is not that .357 will not chamber.
The risk is that the rings will prevent the longer .357 case & crimp from expanding enough to release the bullet when it is fired. That can put pressure through the roof.


rc
 
RC,

Thanks for that input, it all makes perfect sense.

Was wondering if you can explain why there is no crud ring forward of the top of a 357 casing (beginning of the cylinder ramp?). On one hand, I thought a 357 shell would just create a crud ring a few mm's higher than a 38 shell, but on the other hand, that part of the cylinder is tapered and, I guess, should be constantly "scraped" clean by the bullet? :confused:
 
Yep.

The actual chamber dia is about .380", until it gets to the tapered part of the chamber throat, which is very nearly .357" bullet dia.

There is no place for a crud ring to form that doesn't get blasted clean every shot when the proper length casing fills the .380" part of the chamber.
Be it .38's in a .38, or .357 in a .357.

rc
 
Use a old .38/.357 brush wraped in 0000 steel fur, attached to a drill. Dip it in "Break Free" and just work it in and out.
That should do the job.
 
I'm a stickler about cleanig my firearms and have been this way for more than 40 years. But the ring your refering to is something that can eventually cause errosion from the hot gases. It's the beginning of gas cutting and will only get worse and deeper the more you shoot the shorter specials through it. No amount of cleaning will prevent the ring from progressing to a detectable grove developing from gas cutting.
 
I'm sure there are recipes somewhere for .38-power loads in .357 cases.
Click to expand...

I do it all the time. 4gr of Green Dot under a 158gr LSWC in a Magnum case. I seat the bullet past the crimping ring & put a VERY light taper crimp on it.
It's essentially a +P load.
 
I have shot thousands of 38s in 357s including many +P and +P+. I have never had any problem with a "crud ring" building up and that may be I clean my guns after I shoot them. Usually nothing more than a bronze brush and Hoppes and the patience to let it sit a while to work.

You will not get any gas cutting from using 38s of any power level in a 357. There may be a slight line of crud you didn't clean out but that "gas cutting" can be removed with better cleaning.
 
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