RMR 115 and124 gn bullet load data

[snnewbie2020]

Hi, I am very new to reload, just order 1000 rd of RMR 115 and 124 FMJ round nose I need some one have experience with these bullet please give me load data that work well for you. I am using Win 231 power and CCi primer. Thank you

 

[Hartkopf]

Speer has good data for their cprn bullets. I use it where possible for RMR and Berry’s plated. It’s a good idea to find data from multiple sources. Hodgdon.com might have a bullet close enough to compare data to.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Depending on which gun you're going to shoot them through, you may have to load them a bit short due to their profile.

My SIG P320 and S&W M&P9 are usually loaded to 1.120" for Matchwinners and 1.140" for the RN. But I have a friend who's aftermarket Glock barrel requires that the same bullets be loaded to < 1.100"

Loaded to an OAL of 1.140" in Blazer brass, ignited by a CCI 500 primer, and using W231, you can go with a starting load of 4.1grs and work your way up to the velocity you want

 

[fxvr5]

What cartridge are you loading? 9mm Luger? 9X21? 9X23? 9X25? 38 Super? 38 Auto?

Those bullets will fit many calibers.

What gun(s) will you be shooting them in?

To determine the overall length for your gun(s), do the plunk test, described here:
https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/reloading-tips-the-plunk-test/99389

 

[LiveLife]

Welcome to THR and the wonderful hobby of reloading that's a passion for some of us.

RMR 115 and 124 FMJ round nose ... need some ... load data that work well for you ... using Win 231

While we usually use the barrel to determine the max OAL and function test dummy rounds (no powder, no primer) fed from the magazine to determine the working OAL that will reliably feed and chamber, I find RMR 115/124 gr FMJ RN bullets loaded to around 1.130"-1.135" to work in most factory barrels.

BTW, below are pictures of loaded rounds and typical OALs I use with RMR in-house manufactured jacketed bullets - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...col-for-reference.848462/page-2#post-11465109

As to load data, here are Speer load data for RN profile bullets (Total Metal Jacket is thick plated bullet that can be driven to jacketed load data) - https://www.speer.com/reloading/handgun-data.html

• 9mm 115 gr Speer TMJ RN W231 OAL 1.135" Start 4.4 gr (1026 fps) - Max 4.9 gr (1133 fps)
• 9mm 125 gr Lead RN W231 OAL 1.130" Start 3.8 gr (911 fps) - Max 4.1 gr (982 fps)
• 9mm 124 gr Speer TMJ RN W231 OAL 1.135" Start 4.0 gr (887 fps) - Max 4.5 gr (998 fps)

And here are Hodgdon load data for RN profile bullets - http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

• 9mm 115 gr Lead RN W231/HP-38 COL 1.100" Start 4.3 gr (1,079 fps) - Max 4.8 gr (1,135 fps)
• 9mm 124 gr Berry's HBRN-TP W231/HP-38 COL 1.150" Start 3.9 gr (920 fps) - Max 4.4 gr (1,037 fps)
• 9mm 125 gr Sierra FMJ RN W231/HP-38 COL 1.090" Start 4.4 gr (1,009 fps) - Max 4.8 gr (1,088 fps)

Generally with plated bullets, I have referenced lead load data with good results.

For many 115 gr FMJ/plated RN bullets, 4.5 gr of W231/HP-38 (Same exact powder) will start to reliably cycle the slides of my Glocks and 4.7 gr will produce accuracy and 4.8 gr will produce greater accuracy and is my reference 9mm load that is comparable to Winchester white box.

For many 124 gr FMJ/plated RN bullets, heavier bullet will reliably cycle the slide even at lower powder charges but I use 4.3 gr for accuracy.

While I pursue greater accuracy loads, once you have reliable slide cycling and spent case extraction/ejection, you can stop at powder charge that produces acceptable accuracy for you.

I am very new to reload

Here's a step-by-step guide you can reference for your load development and powder work up - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-discussions.778197/page-10#post-11419509

I highly recommend you read the front section of reloading manuals like Lyman #50 which covers reloading principles and safe practices. Here's an older Lyman #48 for your review - http://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manuals/Reloading/Reloading Manuals/Lyman Reloading Handbook - 48th Edition - 2002 - ocr.pdf

Check out the sticky for starting out reloading - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/reloading-library-of-wisdom.649184/

And I highly recommend the use of check weights for verifying accuracy of scale and pin gages for verifying calipers:

Pin gages - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ks-for-digital-calibers.821135/#post-10545265

Check weights - https://www.amazon.com/Calibration-...d-search-10&pf_rd_t=BROWSE&pf_rd_i=4989308011

 

[Trey Veston]

I use 4.6 of 231 for the 115gr RMRs and 4.3 for the 124s. However, I have yet to get really accurate loads using RMR bullets. All of my most accurate loads are either with Hornady XTPs or Speer TMJs or Gold Dots.

 

[LiveLife]

I have yet to get really accurate loads using RMR bullets. All of my most accurate loads are either with Hornady XTPs or Speer TMJs or Gold Dots.

I beg to differ.

When RMR started manufacturing their own jacketed bullets, I did a comparison test with Hornady HAP and Zero FMJ which I consider as match grade standard on par/more accurate than Montana Gold jacketed bullets I used for USPSA.

I am finding RMR bullet nose profile/ogive to be more consistent to produce less OAL variance (.001") and weight variance is less than .05 gr which is less than other jacketed bullets and likely why ELEY chose to use RMR bullets for their centerfire match ammunition - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...or-their-new-line-of-match-ammunition.854750/

4.6 of 231 for the 115gr RMRs

Perhaps you should have tested 4.8 gr.

Here's 25 yard 10 shot groups with adjustable stock

And here's 25 yard 10 shot groups with fixed stock

IMR Target 1.155" vs 1.130"

Sport Pistol at shorter 1.110"

 

[Trey Veston]

Well, in my Gen 5 Glock G19, it just does not like the RMR bullets in any weight using any powder I've tried.







But, it does just fine with XTPs...

 

[Dudedog]

Welcome to THR lots of great people here.

 

[egd]

Well, in my Gen 5 Glock G19, it just does not like the RMR bullets in any weight using any powder I've tried.


I can't tell for sure but the only data I am able to read is where you have them loaded to 1.160. If that is for the 124 and I read it correctly, it may be that they are just too long for your barrel. Try a little shorter, 1.130 perhaps, and see how they do. Of course you may need to lower your powder charge a little.
Of course if you don't have any more and you're happy with xtp, then never mind. But RMR makes excellent bullets and they are very accurate in my guns.

ETA- don't know why my message all looks like a quote. I'm not good at this stuff.

 

[egd]

To OP, My load with 231 and the rmr 124 rn is 4.2 gr at 1.130 oal. YMMV.
Oh, 9mm

 

[snnewbie2020]

Thank you so much guy, as I read all your comment. I loaded 5 dummy round of 115 gn Eggleston bullets( I bough from a local reload supply last week while waiting for my RMR bullet in back order ) at 1.150" COL and did a plunk test with my springfield 1911-A1 it go in and out easy but it would not go out easy with my CZ-Sp01 until I reduce the COL to 1.135", I took 5 factory round of Federal, Winchester round nose they all measure COL about 1.15" to 1.160", I plunk test it on both gun it go in and out easy, why ???. guess what I know the answer now that all gun barrel are not the same. LOL . My question now is does COL effect accuracy ? look like I have 2 choice now 1 is load 2 difference batch for each gun or load it at about 1.135" and use for 2 gun in case I miss handle the cartridge it will not cause trouble for my CZ. what happen if my COL .01" to .02" under the minimum limit ? Please advise. thanks

 

[fxvr5]

My question now is does COL effect accuracy ? look like I have 2 choice now 1 is load 2 difference batch for each gun or load it at about 1.135" and use for 2 gun in case I miss handle the cartridge it will not cause trouble for my CZ. what happen if my COL .01" to .02" under the minimum limit ? Please advise. thanks

Does COL affect accuracy? Maybe, maybe not. You'll have to see what your gun likes.

 

[Walkalong]

Does COL affect accuracy? Maybe, maybe not. You'll have to see what your gun likes.

Yep, but I find an OAL that functions well for me in 9MM, and find a good load at that OAL. I have had very good success that way and the loads out shoot me. Will they win a bullseye match? I don't know, maybe not, but I'm not shooting bullseye.

 

[Dudedog]

I always just load an OAL that will work in all my guns.
Yes OAL can make a difference in accuracy.
I have 5 9mms, all have their own favorite load. I have found that my favorite load for one works well for all the others,
maybe not as good as their favorite but close enough that I am hard pressed to shoot the difference.

 

[LiveLife]

waiting for my RMR bullet in back order ... 115 gn Eggleston bullets ... 1.150" COL ... springfield 1911-A1

but ... CZ-Sp01 ... reduce the COL to 1.135", I took 5 factory round of Federal, Winchester round nose they all measure COL about 1.15" to 1.160", I plunk test it on both gun it go in and out easy, why ???

Because nose profile/ogive of the bullet nose and length of bullet base/bearing surface that engages the rifling are different and requires different OAL to clear the start of rifling of different barrels that have varying leade length (Space bullet jumps from case neck to start of rifling).

Even for same type bullet like following samples of 115 gr FMJ RN have varying nose profile/ogive and if leade length is very short, will require different OAL to "plunk" or clear the start of rifling (From left: Zero, RMR, Winchester (with skirt base/sharp rim), Everglades (dished base) and Federal (hollow base) - Notice hollow base FMJ produces significantly longer bullet base (close to 124 gr FMJ flat base) to improve neck tension as case wall gets thicker further down the case)

This thread shows max/working OAL for different brand bullets for different make of pistols/barrels for your reference - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...col-for-reference.848462/page-2#post-11465109

look like I have 2 choice now 1 is load 2 difference batch for each gun or load it at about 1.135" and use for 2 gun in case I miss handle the cartridge it will not cause trouble for my CZ

If you are loading for multiple pistols, as suggested by Walkalong and Dudedog, use the shorter OAL that will work in all the pistols.

My question now is does COL effect accuracy?

My experience has been yes, OAL/COL can effect accuracy, mainly from difference in neck tension and any subsequent bullet setback which can affect chamber pressure.

When I did 1.150"-1.160" vs 1.130"-1.135" OAL comparison testing that mainly focused on bullet seating depth using same headstamp brass (Note same case wall thickness), shorter OAL produced smaller groups (I will be repeating this for my upcoming myth busting thread so stay tuned).

Another reloading variable is effect of bullet setback on accuracy. If you use mixed range brass with different case wall thickness, you may experience no bullet setback to varying amount of bullet setback and in this myth busting thread, we tested different 9mm bullet diameters from .354", .355", .3555" to .356" (Yes, they are all 9mm bullet diameters) and found different headstamp brass with varying case wall thickness can produce different amount of bullet setback - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...neck-tension-and-bullet-setback.830072/page-4

So if you are using longer OAL with bullet setback and less than desirable accuracy, try incrementally decreasing the OAL by .005" and see if accuracy improves. If accuracy improves, use the shorter OAL.

what happen if my COL .01" to .02" under the minimum limit?

With most 115/124 gr FMJ/RN profile bullets, 1.130"-1.135" OAL will work with most barrels but if you need to use shorter OAL down to 1.120" or even 1.100" and shorter 1.050" because you are using shorter/rounder profile bullets (Like many coated bullet RN profile) or you are squeezing out more accuracy, I would reduce start/max charges by .2-.3 gr depending on amount of OAL reduction below published OAL for same type of bullet/nose profile (Key here is looking at bullet seating depth and we can calculate that by subtracting bullet length from OAL).

I hope this helped.

 

[fxvr5]

Here’s something to think about when you’re doing your accuracy tests. Accuracy testing is not as simple as we might think. There are two articles on the web that I use as examples (see below), and they address comparing group sizes. The point is that there is a big spread in group sizes even when using the same ammo. It that’s right, then how confident can one be that one load is more accurate than other when comparing different loads?

For example, if you shoot a 10-shot group, does that mean that all 10 shot groups you shoot with that ammo will be the same size? No. How different can they be? Can one 10 shot group be twice the size as another 10 shot group when shooting the same ammo? Yes.

This article (https://americanhandgunner.com/handguns/exclusive-consistent-velocity-accuracy/) looked at many (20) 15-shot groups with the same ammo. (See the results using Power Pistol and 115 grain bullets.) The gun was in a Ransom Rest which reduces/eliminates human error in the testing process. The author found that the largest group (3.02”) could be 2.8 times larger than the smallest group (1.07”). That’s with the same ammo!

The reasons for this kind of variation are discussed in this article; https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2019/9/25/accuracy-testing-shortcomings-of-the-five-shot-group/

These are things one must keep in mind when testing accuracy, because what might seem like good evidence to say one load is better than other, might not be the case.

 

[Walkalong]

When I find something that shoots really well, I always test further to see if it repeats, multiple little groups from different load sessions tell me it’s a good one. Not much different than shooting big groups. 50 or more rounds that have consistently shot nice groups gets a thumbs up from me.

 

[LiveLife]

When I find something that shoots really well, I always test further to see if it repeats, multiple little groups from different load sessions tell me it’s a good one.

Very good point and in my past posts, I endorsed repeated range sessions to verify accuracy of our new loads.

Like many shooters, I do not own a Ransom Rest but somehow managed in past decades to develop decent accuracy loads, including match loads and tested them; and so have many other match shooters whether they are shooting bullseye, action pistol, cowboy action, steel challenge, etc. Heck, jmorris just got a Ransom Rest ... How did he managed to develop accurate match grade loads all these years?

I think not having a Ransom Rest to develop accurate loads is like not having a chrono. Will chrono help with your load development? Sure. Can you develop an accurate load without a chrono? Yes.

Here are methods I use.

Powder work up and accuracy testing method:

• I will conduct my initial powder work up using 10 rounds of .2-.3 gr increments at 7-10 yards to determine the powder charge that will reliably cycle the slide and extract/eject spent cases and then monitor accuracy trend. (If I notice accuracy at start charge, I may "work down" to identify lighter target loads)

• On my subsequent range trip, I will load 20+ rounds of of .1-.2 gr increments around powder charge that produced accuracy trend with reliable slide cycling and test at 10-15 yards.

• Once most accurate powder charge is identified, I will repeat range test with shorter OAL to see if group size decreases. (If I referenced more conservative load data, I may test higher powder charges)

• Once powder charge/OAL that produced smallest group size is determined, I will repeat range test at 25 yards and take pictures of group size for THR peanut gallery (50 yard range test for carbine loads)

Method #1: Use reference loads - I have used this method for decades to determine whether a new test load is accurate or not which is to use known/familiar loads as reference loads to compare group size when range testing (This rules out or factors in good/bad range days and shooter input).

For 9mm, it's 115 gr FMJ RN with 4.8 gr of W231/HP-38 loaded to 1.130"-1.135" using range brass headstamp that does not produce bullet setback (Or least amount if your selection of brass is limited) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...neck-tension-and-bullet-setback.830072/page-4

So if my new test loads are shooting crappy but my reference load is producing the usual group size, then I can suspect that it's the new test loads and not the shooter. But if I am shooting crappy with my reference load too with larger than usual group size, then I am having a bad range day and will repeat the range session.

Method #2: Group size for known distance to target - Another method I use is group size at different distance to target of 7-10, 15, 25 yards. After shooting over 600,000 rounds of various pistol rounds, I have noticed decent factory ammo and my reference loads will "usually" produce around 1" groups at 7-10 yards, 2" at 15 yards and 3" at 25 yards out of many full-size pistols.

So during powder work up, if a test load produces smaller than 2" groups at 15 yards, it will signal to me that I may be working with/around an accurate powder charge load. If a test load produces consistently smaller groups at 25 yards around 2", I will deem that round accurate. (I am working on a scoped pistol rest to address my eye issue with glaucoma/touch of cataract)