rainbowbob
Member
How were the BGs in that incident matched to your incident?
Robbed at Gunpoint this week - taking ?s
- Thread starter newbie4help
- Start date
- Status
How were the BGs in that incident matched to your incident?
armedandsafe
Member
I have seen and practiced the "going fo my wallet" draw. One thing to practice is to make the two moves the same.
Most people who practice this move roll their shoulder up and forward when drawing their weapon, but don't when pulling their wallet. That shoulder movement is a give-away to somebody who is already nervous.
The other thing to practice is facial expression. Most people squint and frown differently when reaching for a gun than when reaching for a wallet.
Little things, but something to think about.
Pops
Most people who practice this move roll their shoulder up and forward when drawing their weapon, but don't when pulling their wallet. That shoulder movement is a give-away to somebody who is already nervous.
The other thing to practice is facial expression. Most people squint and frown differently when reaching for a gun than when reaching for a wallet.
Little things, but something to think about.
Pops
newbie4help
Member
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2008
- Messages
- 229
armedandsafe: good tips on the wallet thing.
rainbowbob: They found my stuff with them.
rainbowbob: They found my stuff with them.
armedandsafe
Member
I didn't realize those tips until I started teaching the move.
Pops
Pops
Guns and more
member
- Joined
- May 6, 2008
- Messages
- 1,929
You did the right thing because you and your girlfriend are alright.
You'll second guess this until the cows come home, but it could have been worse. They are caught, you're alive, help see to it they never get out.
You'll second guess this until the cows come home, but it could have been worse. They are caught, you're alive, help see to it they never get out.
janobles14
Member
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2008
- Messages
- 1,095
not trying to patronize here, just let me say that...you did well to get out unharmed.
that being said...NEVER TURN AROUND! as a long time police trainer, guys dont ever give in unless you must (and since you were unarmed i dont blame you.).
everyone please study this lesson and take it to heart. keep cool and do what you must. and also...stay an armed citizen.
good job newbie4help and stay aware brother.
that being said...NEVER TURN AROUND! as a long time police trainer, guys dont ever give in unless you must (and since you were unarmed i dont blame you.).
everyone please study this lesson and take it to heart. keep cool and do what you must. and also...stay an armed citizen.
good job newbie4help and stay aware brother.
Mainsail
Member
newbie4help said:
This implies there were military personel nearby. How many?
lanternlad1
Member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2007
- Messages
- 770
Seems like you did everything you could have done in that situation. Even if you had a gun on you, it was too late - he had the drop on you. To quote Massad Ayoob, "Never draw on a drawn gun."
SSN Vet
Member
approx. age?
style of dress?
race?
any indicators that they didn't belong (other than the gun)?
I realize you didn't have time to react....but I"m curious and details help paint a clearer picture
style of dress?
race?
any indicators that they didn't belong (other than the gun)?
I realize you didn't have time to react....but I"m curious and details help paint a clearer picture
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
First of all, thanks for being generous enough to share your experience here. I hope doing so will genuinely help you deal with it in your own mind, and perhaps learn some ways to avoid similar happenings in the future.
Secondly, you both obviously did everything right given the situation you were confronted with- you both got out of it with your epidermises intact, though with a bad experience to deal with. So there is nothing to beat yourselves up about there.
Some more questions, FWIW:
1) Was there a different route to the car you could have taken that would have lessened your exposure, or shortened the time you spent in the parking lot?
2) Thinking back on the situation, is there anything you can recall doing or not doing which would have made the thugs tilt the victim selection process in your favor? Were you deeply involved in a conversation with your GF? Listening to an Ipod? Wearing your best clothes? Anything you can recall that would have made them/helped them decide, "That's the ones- get 'em!" (This is NOT to blame you for anything- just to try and get you to look at the situation through the eyes of the criminal, not the victim.)
3) Now that this has happened, what if anything will you be doing differently? (Reading Cooper's Principles of Personal Defense perhaps- http://www.paladin-press.com/product/772/27 ? Taking a basic pistol class, and working your way up to doing some force-on-force training? Anything like that?)
lpl
Secondly, you both obviously did everything right given the situation you were confronted with- you both got out of it with your epidermises intact, though with a bad experience to deal with. So there is nothing to beat yourselves up about there.
Some more questions, FWIW:
1) Was there a different route to the car you could have taken that would have lessened your exposure, or shortened the time you spent in the parking lot?
2) Thinking back on the situation, is there anything you can recall doing or not doing which would have made the thugs tilt the victim selection process in your favor? Were you deeply involved in a conversation with your GF? Listening to an Ipod? Wearing your best clothes? Anything you can recall that would have made them/helped them decide, "That's the ones- get 'em!" (This is NOT to blame you for anything- just to try and get you to look at the situation through the eyes of the criminal, not the victim.)
3) Now that this has happened, what if anything will you be doing differently? (Reading Cooper's Principles of Personal Defense perhaps- http://www.paladin-press.com/product/772/27 ? Taking a basic pistol class, and working your way up to doing some force-on-force training? Anything like that?)
lpl
Gamer
Member
Newbie, thanks for sharing your story and I'm glad you came out of this situation unharmed. Luckily, I've never come face to face with someone wanting to rob me and hopefully I never will.
That said, earlier this week I signed my wife and I up for a CWP class and this drives home the need in my mind to do so. We're facing some tough economic times in our country right now and I felt we needed to be more prepared. Like you, i've always kept a pistol around, in the truck or night stand etc but not on my person. But, that will soon change!
That said, earlier this week I signed my wife and I up for a CWP class and this drives home the need in my mind to do so. We're facing some tough economic times in our country right now and I felt we needed to be more prepared. Like you, i've always kept a pistol around, in the truck or night stand etc but not on my person. But, that will soon change!
Last edited:
Kenneth Lew
Member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2003
- Messages
- 534
They will probably make bail, plead out with the jury waiting outside the courtroom, and be out in 5 years.
Titan6
member
If they have the drop on you that is a tough one. Not much to be done.
My only real question is if you could have done anything different what would it have been and why?
My only real question is if you could have done anything different what would it have been and why?
No. It is mostly about being "situationally aware." The BGs will intentionally pick spots and conditions such as your parking lot scene to do their dirty deeds.
As sm points out, you (and we) must pick up the signals of a threat early when it appears.
Once you miss the signals and do not see the situation developing, you're along for the ride. In this case, since the BG has a gun and you have no weapon, you are pretty much forced to comply with his orders.
Glad you and GF came out OK. Thanks for sharing your story. It's a very good reminder to be vigilant.
Probably not a realistic idea. If the BG has the gun already on you there's a lot more to solving the problem than learning to draw quickly. Within 2 arms length it may not even be advisable to attempt to draw. Do you just draw and trade shots with him like you're characters in a John Houston movie or do you move while drawing. Do you know how to shoot while moving? Do you want to try to shoot while moving? Do you move then shoot? Do you get your GF shot by the BG by doing this? Do you get some innocent bystander shot? Are you going to dress so that you can access the weapon while moving? Do you have the time and money to take a course that teaches these skills? Do you have the time and money to maintain these skills?
Right now you're probably thinking "I shoulda..." or that your GF is thinking "he shoulda". Don't. She probably thinks you did the smart thing. You did. Monday quarterbacking yourself should be focused on the practical questions of how could I have avoided the situation, how could I have made the situation safer since I didn't avoid it and how could I minimize the problems due to the situation?
chieftain
Member
First you won. You and your lady got out of the situation without being hurt.
Any, and I mean any suggestions or criticism is just that. you survived and that is what it is about.
If you had been armed with the info you gave, it would help to have a diversion.
I walk around many places, not all, with my diversion in my pocket. The electronic key fob for my car.
In a parking lot I would hit the alarm button. Most folks, particularly those doing things they know they shouldn't be doing will look.
Even if they don't look, it takes a moment of time to register and process the change in the environment. That is your edge, at 3 ft.
I would use that same plan if I walked into a stop and rob with the robbery in process.
A diversion always works. Sometimes a lot better than other times. But that is often your only edge.
Train as if your life depends on it.
Good luck.
Fred
Any, and I mean any suggestions or criticism is just that. you survived and that is what it is about.
If you had been armed with the info you gave, it would help to have a diversion.
I walk around many places, not all, with my diversion in my pocket. The electronic key fob for my car.
In a parking lot I would hit the alarm button. Most folks, particularly those doing things they know they shouldn't be doing will look.
Even if they don't look, it takes a moment of time to register and process the change in the environment. That is your edge, at 3 ft.
I would use that same plan if I walked into a stop and rob with the robbery in process.
A diversion always works. Sometimes a lot better than other times. But that is often your only edge.
Train as if your life depends on it.
Good luck.
Fred
rainbowbob
Member
Probably more like 3 years.
leadcounsel
member
Like others said, you and your GF are alive and no major loss, so you win.
You gained valuable experience so you win.
But in all honesty you won because of the whim of the bad guy. If he put 5 lbs of pressure on his trigger finger you may be dead and were powerless to stop it. I'm not criticizing you. Under the same circumstances I would have probably complied too.
The key here seems like wrong place, wrong time mixed with poor situational awareness.
Suggestions:
1. Although we often cannot help our surroundings, living someplace with shady characters staking out the apartment parking lot is avoidable. Spend a little more on rent and move someplace safer. An extra $200 a month buys a LOT of peace of mind. Sure crime can and does happen everywhere, but some places just have more crime and worse odds.
2. A reminder of situational awareness. Sure it's hard to remain vigalent 24-7. But in a nice neighborhood his vehicle may have stood out whereas in a poor neighborhood his vehicle blends in. See #1 and move someplace where a beater car DOES raise some alarm bells.
3. Retrace your steps to see if you gave off "victim" signals.
4. Take defensive handgun skills. Even if armed, you should not draw on a drawn weapon unless you are sure you're going to be executed. However, in some situations you may be able to get the drop on a perp, and that is valuable.
5. When I lived in Philly, I carried a 'drop wallet' stuffed thick with $1 bills and 1/2 of credit cards sticking out of the slots to give the appearance of a real thick wallet. If I were ever robbed, I knew that was in my off hand back pocket and I could give that away. You could also use it as a diversion and either throw it and when the perp turns to look attack him or run (depending on whether he has a gun or knife) or drop it and when he looks or bends down attack or run. If the perp actually opens the wallet to count the loot, this is also a good diversion. Many people also carry fake car keys for the same purpose. Throw them or drop them as a diversion. A huge benefit of the 'drop wallet' is that it does not contain any of your real personal identification (name, address, etc.).
6. Your tale is a good lesson for all of us on situational awareness and contemplating all angles of self-defense. Considering the 'surprise' attack is probably the most favored by the perps, we should all be prepared to stand there and be defense-less as we are robbed at gunpoint. We all need to keep our heads in such circumstances.
You gained valuable experience so you win.
But in all honesty you won because of the whim of the bad guy. If he put 5 lbs of pressure on his trigger finger you may be dead and were powerless to stop it. I'm not criticizing you. Under the same circumstances I would have probably complied too.
The key here seems like wrong place, wrong time mixed with poor situational awareness.
Suggestions:
1. Although we often cannot help our surroundings, living someplace with shady characters staking out the apartment parking lot is avoidable. Spend a little more on rent and move someplace safer. An extra $200 a month buys a LOT of peace of mind. Sure crime can and does happen everywhere, but some places just have more crime and worse odds.
2. A reminder of situational awareness. Sure it's hard to remain vigalent 24-7. But in a nice neighborhood his vehicle may have stood out whereas in a poor neighborhood his vehicle blends in. See #1 and move someplace where a beater car DOES raise some alarm bells.
3. Retrace your steps to see if you gave off "victim" signals.
4. Take defensive handgun skills. Even if armed, you should not draw on a drawn weapon unless you are sure you're going to be executed. However, in some situations you may be able to get the drop on a perp, and that is valuable.
5. When I lived in Philly, I carried a 'drop wallet' stuffed thick with $1 bills and 1/2 of credit cards sticking out of the slots to give the appearance of a real thick wallet. If I were ever robbed, I knew that was in my off hand back pocket and I could give that away. You could also use it as a diversion and either throw it and when the perp turns to look attack him or run (depending on whether he has a gun or knife) or drop it and when he looks or bends down attack or run. If the perp actually opens the wallet to count the loot, this is also a good diversion. Many people also carry fake car keys for the same purpose. Throw them or drop them as a diversion. A huge benefit of the 'drop wallet' is that it does not contain any of your real personal identification (name, address, etc.).
6. Your tale is a good lesson for all of us on situational awareness and contemplating all angles of self-defense. Considering the 'surprise' attack is probably the most favored by the perps, we should all be prepared to stand there and be defense-less as we are robbed at gunpoint. We all need to keep our heads in such circumstances.
rainbowbob
Member
Unfortunately, it is not pratical or possible for many people to simply move to a more affluent neighborhood. And as you point out, although it may improve the odds some, BGs know that going to affluent neighborhoods improves THEIR odds of finding oblivious targets with more money and more expensive electronics in their pockets.
Looking for cars that "don't fit in" might be a good idea in general - but most likely they belong to some law-abiding kid or hard-working adult who can't afford better. Using economic indicators to decide who is suspicious and/or dangerous will only increase the chasm between the haves and have-nots in this increasingly difficult economy.
This is an excellent suggestion that had never occurred to me. Perhaps it would be better to fill it with "real" credit cards and such that have never been activated or are expired so as not to tip the BG off to the ruse if he were to pull out a card and look closely while still covering you. I'm not sure how to do this without giving away your name and address, though. Hmmm...I'll have to think about that. It may be a little trouble to put together and remember to always carry - but your idea could save a life without having to give up the real goods.
- Status