bdickens
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So buy a Glock, then....
Rock Island 1911s...
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So buy a Glock, then....
LiveLife
Member
No, OP asked for a 1911 so RIA, the "Glock" of 1911s.
And RIA 1911 comes in 9mm too with 17 round capacity.
bdickens
Member
My comment was a sarcastic one more aimed at this snob saying you have to spend at least $2k, preferably more, to get a 1911 with any hope of being reliable. I guess he missed all the advances in modern manufacturing technology that allow things to be made better cheaper.
I carried old "rattle battle' 1911 pistols while in the Army. Loose as a goose to the point of sounding like they would fall apart. The barrel to slide fit was good on all of them and I always qualified expert. Some people put too much emphasis on slide to frame fit, the barrel to slide fit is more important for accuracy.
mgmorden
Member
I have an STI Spartan which is an STI branded gun made by Armscor (Rock Island). It works perfectly now but out of the box it did give me some trouble. Replacing the extractor fixed the issue. I still consider it a good gun as it only took a $25 part to get it running correctly.
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lsudave
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If you want something that looks "authentic" and is inexpensive, then Armscor or ATI GI models are your ticket.
lsudave
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Why do people post crap like this? I mean:
- first off, OP stated this won't be his primary carry. He wants a 1911 to have one. Why on earth would he run a lot of +P ammo through it? That stuff costs more, and does nothing extra at the range. And BTW no gun likes a steady diet of it, including the pricier ones.
- "Don't expect a lifetime warranty"??? Have you ever looked into Armscor's warranty? I have- I bought a used Armscor High Standard. I emailed them to get a manufacturing date. They replied and told me when it was made, and incidentally told me that if I have any trouble, it's covered. The gun is covered, not the original buyer. Lifetime.
- Ruger's frames are cast. They are proud of that. That's one of their calling cards. BTW, so are a number of other maker's.
- The only 1911 I've seen a sight fall off of, was my brother's Colt 80's series. My High Standard, ATI, and Tisas have not had that problem.
Kevin Rohrer
Member
Sorry, but am not a snob, nor did I write what you insinuated. Suggest you learn to read for understanding.
You gentlemen enjoy your "quality" 1911s.
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LiveLife
Member
It's funny that when I transition from Norinco 1911 fortified with Wilson Combat parts/Sig P226 for USPSA to Glocks, I got all kinds of threatening/concerning comments how the "plastic" guns won't stand up to the stress of match shooting and accuracy won't be good enough.
My G17 after 120,000 rounds did not break and still maintained accuracy. I only sold it to another match shooter because I thought the rifling was shot out but when he tested for accuracy, it was good enough for him and he used it for 3-gun matches.
When I climbed the local club ladder to above 80 percentile with 2 factory stock Glock 22s shooting tight double taps, the rumbling died down and they started singing praise of "reliable and accurate" Glocks that can go several thousand rounds without choking when their match pistols needed cleaning during practice range days to become reliable (We shot thousands of rounds during match practice days).
I think I am seeing similar happening to RIA 1911s. Armscor is probably the largest arms manufacturer in Philippines, and like Glock, likely have the financial means and resources to keep improving their products. RIA had been selling in the US for several years when I first shot their Tactical models about 10 years ago. I certainly hope they made improvements since and based on many member reviews and a friend's Tactical model I shot a lot of (8000+ rounds now), looks like they did.
Would I buy a RIA over Sig 1911? No. But if I only had enough money for RIA, I would gladly buy a RIA knowing what I know that the pistol will reliably feed SWC reloads and shoot accurate on par with my Sig 1911.
My G17 after 120,000 rounds did not break and still maintained accuracy. I only sold it to another match shooter because I thought the rifling was shot out but when he tested for accuracy, it was good enough for him and he used it for 3-gun matches.
When I climbed the local club ladder to above 80 percentile with 2 factory stock Glock 22s shooting tight double taps, the rumbling died down and they started singing praise of "reliable and accurate" Glocks that can go several thousand rounds without choking when their match pistols needed cleaning during practice range days to become reliable (We shot thousands of rounds during match practice days).
I think I am seeing similar happening to RIA 1911s. Armscor is probably the largest arms manufacturer in Philippines, and like Glock, likely have the financial means and resources to keep improving their products. RIA had been selling in the US for several years when I first shot their Tactical models about 10 years ago. I certainly hope they made improvements since and based on many member reviews and a friend's Tactical model I shot a lot of (8000+ rounds now), looks like they did.
Would I buy a RIA over Sig 1911? No. But if I only had enough money for RIA, I would gladly buy a RIA knowing what I know that the pistol will reliably feed SWC reloads and shoot accurate on par with my Sig 1911.
1KPerDay
Member
You don't know Ruger very well then...
bdickens
Member
We can go down that road if you really want to....
Geldarr
Member
I have a Citadel 9mm 1911 government size, and can attest to the quality of that pistol. Excellent trigger, great sights, and the slide rides smoothly on the frame. I fitted a small radius firing pin stop (what an upgrade!) from EGW, and will most likely be adding one of EGW's angle bored bushings just because I'd like it to shoot even nicer than it does now. My Citadel came with 2 Metalform mags, too, which is a big plus.
Old picture, but still looks nice to me!
Old picture, but still looks nice to me!
LiveLife
Member
And nice MagPul grips with thumb cutout?
When RIAs were sold with fat blank grips, I suggested to some to try MagPul grips and they were very happy. I see that they are now more textured for better sweaty palm grip (like the sandpaper grips that came on my Sig 1911 XO) - https://www.amazon.com/Magpul-MOE-1911-Grip-Panels/dp/B07KGVRDD5
BCR#1
member
[QUOTE="BearBrimstone, Unless they’ve changed things Springfield 1911s aren’t made in the US by the way. They have made in Brazil stamped on them.[/QUOTE]
Both of my Springfield 1911's, a Loaded model and a Range Officer don't say Brazil anywhere on them and had hang tags saying USA made. Raw components may come from Brazil but the machining and assembly work are done in Illinois.
Back to the original post, The OP should look at Auto Ordinance also. The Turkish guns are getting great reviews too. Any of the sub $600 NIB guns are fine for range use.
Nothing shoots like a 1911 pistol. I shoot 90 rounds with my RO every week for the past 1 1/2 years. Nary a hick up since new and I don't shoot weak target loads either.
Bill
Both of my Springfield 1911's, a Loaded model and a Range Officer don't say Brazil anywhere on them and had hang tags saying USA made. Raw components may come from Brazil but the machining and assembly work are done in Illinois.
Back to the original post, The OP should look at Auto Ordinance also. The Turkish guns are getting great reviews too. Any of the sub $600 NIB guns are fine for range use.
Nothing shoots like a 1911 pistol. I shoot 90 rounds with my RO every week for the past 1 1/2 years. Nary a hick up since new and I don't shoot weak target loads either.
Bill
lsudave
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my first 1911 was a Tisas, a Turkish model. It shoots fine, I do want to refinish it. I wouldn't mind figuring out either parkerizing or rust blue. Leaning towards parkerized, since it's got a very traditional 1911A1 vibe going on.
I just picked up a pair of Para Experts, for about 400 apiece. Listed as used in the store, both looked new in box. They seem very nice. Triggers seem a bit different, as they have the 80 Series FPB.
Old Dog
Member
I'm noticing that a lot of our 1911 threads lately seem to quickly become contentious. I've owned a lot of Colts, a number of Springers, a few Kimbers … plus a WC, an LB and a EB. My current 1911 for carry is a Dan Wesson.
I've been tempted to buy, but haven't yet, one of the Turkish or Filipino 1911s. As I noted in another recent thread, I'm kind of a brand snob, but I just love 1911s and am at the point in life where a few hundred dollars can be dropped on a whim. Reason I haven't picked up one of these newer 1911s is simply because I've not seen any of 'em at my range or club and had the opportunity to shoot one. I'm a sucker for anything resembling a "G.I. .45" so pretty sure I'll pick one up shortly. As for craftsmanship, I have ultimate confidence in Turkish-manufactured guns, having visited a factory there; having been stationed in the Philippines, no qualms about buying anything made there, either.
Cast frames? Even Dan Wesson has gone there, if my information is correct. As far as MIM goes -- at this point, I simply don't think MIM is something to be feared.
I've been tempted to buy, but haven't yet, one of the Turkish or Filipino 1911s. As I noted in another recent thread, I'm kind of a brand snob, but I just love 1911s and am at the point in life where a few hundred dollars can be dropped on a whim. Reason I haven't picked up one of these newer 1911s is simply because I've not seen any of 'em at my range or club and had the opportunity to shoot one. I'm a sucker for anything resembling a "G.I. .45" so pretty sure I'll pick one up shortly. As for craftsmanship, I have ultimate confidence in Turkish-manufactured guns, having visited a factory there; having been stationed in the Philippines, no qualms about buying anything made there, either.
Cast frames? Even Dan Wesson has gone there, if my information is correct. As far as MIM goes -- at this point, I simply don't think MIM is something to be feared.
Dudedog
Contributing Member
Quite happy with my Citadel 1911.
Is it the best 1911 I own or have ever shot? NO, is it a good gun? Yes IMO
(firing pin spring did break but even though it is a finicky 1911 it seemed to work fine for the rest of the match, didn't know there was an issue with the spring until I went to clean it)
(Glock people may say OMG, a firing pin spring broke after only 10k+ rounds, my thought is tires and brake pads wear out so some things just need wear out and need to be replaced)
Only about 7K rounds thru my Citadel and so far it is fine. It shoots where I aim it, even if my aim leaves something to be desired.
BTW, I did replace the recoil spring and firing pin spring about a K ago.
Is it the best 1911 I own or have ever shot? NO, is it a good gun? Yes IMO
Yep paid close to $1000 for a Sig P226 Dark Elite, front sight fell off and rear sight would not stay tight. Sig "fixed it" but I don't have 30000 rounds thru it like my sub (barely) $1000 Springfield 9mm 1911, which the sights have not fell off of.
(firing pin spring did break but even though it is a finicky 1911 it seemed to work fine for the rest of the match, didn't know there was an issue with the spring until I went to clean it)
(Glock people may say OMG, a firing pin spring broke after only 10k+ rounds, my thought is tires and brake pads wear out so some things just need wear out and need to be replaced)
Only about 7K rounds thru my Citadel and so far it is fine. It shoots where I aim it, even if my aim leaves something to be desired.
BTW, I did replace the recoil spring and firing pin spring about a K ago.
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popeye
Member
Currently own but 2 RIA's.
lsudave
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We've gotten off track, let's try to get back on here
You mention "Americana" and GI replica, it kinda sounds like you want a classic GI-type, military looking gun. 5" slide, minimal bells and whistles, etc. I have 3 such, from the "bargain" tier. My Tisas has the arched mainspring housing, and with the correct grips it is very close to correct. My biggest gripe is that it has a matte black finish, a little soft, and doesn't quite look right.
2nd gun is the High Standard, this has a parkerized slide and frame, and is very close to mil-spec looking. Has the flat mainspring housing, and if you quibble on such stuff the hammer spur isn't wide.
3rd gun is an ATI Extreme GI. This has a parked or matte blued finish, it also looks close but with a flat mainspring housing. Looking at pics online, you see a big logo on the slide... that doesn't jump out too much in person.
The Tisas is harder to find, and probably not going to be supported by warranty too much (not that it matters a lot). The RIA will be easier to find, great warranty. The ATI is out there if you look, and quite often goes for $300 or $325 online. Also warranty is present.
These all look great in a classic old holster, and they sling .45 downrange accurately. If you just want "a representative 1911" for that slot in the collection, they're a great deal.
By all accounts, the Armscor (Rock Island) guns work and hold up quite well. They seem to be the most prevalent of the sub $400 1911's. I've mentioned in my post, I have an Armscor High Standard, which was a Lipsey's special done a little over decade ago, it is still nice.
You mention "Americana" and GI replica, it kinda sounds like you want a classic GI-type, military looking gun. 5" slide, minimal bells and whistles, etc. I have 3 such, from the "bargain" tier. My Tisas has the arched mainspring housing, and with the correct grips it is very close to correct. My biggest gripe is that it has a matte black finish, a little soft, and doesn't quite look right.
2nd gun is the High Standard, this has a parkerized slide and frame, and is very close to mil-spec looking. Has the flat mainspring housing, and if you quibble on such stuff the hammer spur isn't wide.
3rd gun is an ATI Extreme GI. This has a parked or matte blued finish, it also looks close but with a flat mainspring housing. Looking at pics online, you see a big logo on the slide... that doesn't jump out too much in person.
The Tisas is harder to find, and probably not going to be supported by warranty too much (not that it matters a lot). The RIA will be easier to find, great warranty. The ATI is out there if you look, and quite often goes for $300 or $325 online. Also warranty is present.
These all look great in a classic old holster, and they sling .45 downrange accurately. If you just want "a representative 1911" for that slot in the collection, they're a great deal.
OP
OP
American_Fusilier
Member
Again, thanks for all the responses!
I think I'm going to go with the RIA GI M1911. It's just for the sake of having a 1911. I am not rich, and spending more than $1k on a gun is something that would be hard for me to stomach, especially when there is plenty out there that will perform as good or better than the $1k+ guns (maybe not for 1911's, I am not an expert in those).
My main gun is a striker fire polymer handgun, I find striker fired pistols to be my favorite, and I seem to be most consistent with them.
I guess I didn't realize there were as many entry level 1911's as there are. That is awesome! Though, I know there are many good quality firearms made in Turkey, I'd rather not give them my money. So I'd probably still go with the RIA over the Tisas. that is NOT to say the Tisas are bad, or anybody who has bought them is "wrong" or anything.
I know RIA guns are made in the Philippines, which is not America. But is was an American territory for a while, and American GIs did some fighting in the Philippines in WWII, that's good enough for me. I do like the RIA basic GI M1911, it's still got the modern wider feed ramp and the ejection port is slightly bigger, but those are changes I can live with. It doesn't need to be perfectly authentic. In fact, it doesn't have to be anything! I just want a 1911, and I like the WWII look or the fancy modern look with the skeleton trigger/hammer and longer beaver tail. I might get the GI with the better sights though, because those sights were awfully tiny...
Anyway, I appreciate all of your responses and thoughts!!!
Thanks!
I think I'm going to go with the RIA GI M1911. It's just for the sake of having a 1911. I am not rich, and spending more than $1k on a gun is something that would be hard for me to stomach, especially when there is plenty out there that will perform as good or better than the $1k+ guns (maybe not for 1911's, I am not an expert in those).
My main gun is a striker fire polymer handgun, I find striker fired pistols to be my favorite, and I seem to be most consistent with them.
I guess I didn't realize there were as many entry level 1911's as there are. That is awesome! Though, I know there are many good quality firearms made in Turkey, I'd rather not give them my money. So I'd probably still go with the RIA over the Tisas. that is NOT to say the Tisas are bad, or anybody who has bought them is "wrong" or anything.
I know RIA guns are made in the Philippines, which is not America. But is was an American territory for a while, and American GIs did some fighting in the Philippines in WWII, that's good enough for me. I do like the RIA basic GI M1911, it's still got the modern wider feed ramp and the ejection port is slightly bigger, but those are changes I can live with. It doesn't need to be perfectly authentic. In fact, it doesn't have to be anything! I just want a 1911, and I like the WWII look or the fancy modern look with the skeleton trigger/hammer and longer beaver tail. I might get the GI with the better sights though, because those sights were awfully tiny...
Anyway, I appreciate all of your responses and thoughts!!!
Thanks!
LiveLife
Member
When a coworker friend wanted to get 1911 and M1A because he shot them in the Army (I shot M16 and M60), having shot the RIA Tactical, I highly recommended that he get the Tactical model over the GI model due to better sights and beavertail grip safety, etc. for $50 more.
He was very glad that he got the Tactical model and wanted me to replace the front sight with fiber optic sight as his eyesight was not good and black and black iron sights did not help, especially when shooting at black targets.
While RIA uses "Novak Style" sights on the Tactical, they are not cut at the same dovetail depth and I had trouble finding the right front sight. Now, Dawson Precision makes fiber optic front sight just for RIA front dovetail depth - https://dawsonprecision.com/rock-island-1911-fiber-optic-front-sights/
And for you also, I also highly recommend you consider this:
RIA 1911 GI Standard is $408 - https://www.budsgunshop.com/mobile/...1911_gi_standard_fs_45_acp_5_8+1_ca_compliant
RIA 1911 Tactical Standard Flat Dark Earth is $446 ($38 more) - https://www.budsgunshop.com/mobile/...y_m1911-a1_fs_tactical_45_acp_flat_dark_earth
RIA 1911 Tactical Standard is $459 ($51 more) - https://www.budsgunshop.com/mobile/...d_fs_tac_45_acp_5_8+1_black_rubber_grip_black
RIA 1911 Tactical II with fiber optic front and adjustable rear sights + G10 grips $556 ($148 more) - https://www.budsgunshop.com/mobile/...5_acp_5_g10_grips_fiber_optic_adj_sgts_45_acp
For me, getting the Tactical over GI for $38/$51 more is a no brainer as price difference is less than couple boxes of ammunition.
If you have eye issues and plan to shoot a lot, I would definitely lean towards getting the Tactical II model as during the life of shooting the RIA of 10-20 years, cost difference of $148 will be negligible compared to thousands of dollars you will spend on ammunition.
How about a FREE PISTOL?
If you really plan to shoot a lot and want to save a ton of money, I would highly recommend you consider 9mm Tactical Ultra for $559 as you will likely pay for the pistol just within the first year of shooting.
- https://www.budsgunshop.com/mobile/...a_fs_single_9mm_5_9+1_gray_g10_grip_black_par
lsudave
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I understand the lure of getting a 9mm, as that would be cheaper to feed and you should have plenty (assuming your primaries are 9mm). Most of my other pistols are 9mm.How about a FREE PISTOL?
If you really plan to shoot a lot and want to save a ton of money, I would highly recommend you consider 9mm Tactical Ultra for $559 as you will likely pay for the pistol just within the first year of shooting.
My 1911's are .45 ACP. I got them in .45, because when I was a kid, I called the 1911 a Colt 45. Americana, as you say... big GI style gun with a big bore. If you shop online for ammo at somewhere like SGAmmo or the like, toss a box of cheap range .45 in the cart with your other stuff.
BigBL87
Member
I was in the same boat. I have several 9s, so a 9mm 1911 made sense. But I really felt like if I only have one 1911, it really should be a .45 like God and John Moses Browning intended.
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