Ruger AR556 vs. Colt M4 vs. Smith & Wesson MP-15

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md7 said:
OP,

The Colt 6920 is considered the standard to which other ARs are measured primarily because it's built to known standard, more or less. With some minor differences (barrel length and semi auto only) the 6920 is more or less built to "mil spec."

What is mil spec? In my paraphrased and likely somewhat imprecise definition, mil spec simply calls out the materials, dimensions, assembly methods, and testing protocols required to meet a minimum standard of quality deemed suitable for "fighting rifles" per mil specification.

It's not the gold standard because it cannot be topped. It's considered by most to be the standard because that's what is considered necessary per mil spec to minimally qualify as suitable for combat usage.

Rifles can be built below this spec, to this spec (select fire and barrel length notwithstanding) or above it.

The heart of the matter is simple, really. Does "mil spec" (or a close civilian variant of mil spec) matter to you? If so, buy the Colt. If you want beyond mil spec, buy a BCM, Daniel Defense, KAC, etc. If not, buy the MP, Ruger, etc.

Regardless of your pick, I'd suggest plenty of mags, ammo, and trigger time. The AR is fun to shoot, and I hope you'll enjoy yours as much as I enjoy mine.
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Is the Ruger and the Smith MP Mil-Spec? What are some examples of AR brands that are not Mil-Spec?
 
Others can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that mil-spec AR carbines all have chrome-lined barrels and a 1:7 rifling twist which allows them to stabilize the long, heavy tracer projectiles.

The Ruger AR 556 barrel has a 1:8 twist and is not lined. The M&P15 Sport II has a 1:9 twist rate. Smith and Wesson advertised that the barrel of the original M&P Sport was melonite-lined, but I don't see them saying this about the Sport II so I am not sure it is lined.

The Ruger AR 556 bolt carrier has a bolt carrier group with an unshrouded firing pin. The Ruger also has a threaded rather than a spring-loaded Delta ring which is proprietary, and also has a proprietary gas block/front sight post. I happen to like the Ruger front sight post and Delta ring.

The Smith M&P15 Sport II has a flip up Magpul MBUS rear sight with dual sight apertures. The Ruger rear flip-up rear sight is a proprietary design with only a single (smaller) aperture. The MBUS sight is better.

I have no doubt that the Colt LE 6920 is a better carbine than the Ruger AR 556 or the Smith M&P15 Sport II, but you have to consider your intended usage. Do you expect to shoot more than 20,000 rounds through the rifle or use it to shoot hundreds of rounds in a few minutes time?

The Ruger and M&P are very comparably priced. When I was pricing AR carbines, the cheapest price I could find for Colt 6920s was at $300-400 more than either of the other two. That amount of money will buy a very, very nice optic. I have no doubt that I could shoot my Ruger AR 556 better with a top quality optic than I could a Colt 6920 with "iron" sights.
 
It looks to me like the OP has some interest in budget ARs. Truth be known those will be more than adequate for what 90% of us will use an AR for. I know dozens of AR owners. Two of them may shoot enough to ever wear out a barrel. Barrels are generally the wear item most likely to go first. And remember, a barrel just doesn't go from being serviceable one day to worn out the next. There is a period of time where the accuracy tapers off. A period of thousands of rounds. Unless you are a serious competition shooter or you anticipate a number of range sessions where you are engaging in sustained rapid fire, you probably won't ever wear an AR out. I bought the Ruger. Mine had to go back to the factory. Magazines wouldn't completely seat. I have it outfitted with a 3x Nikon scope. It's pretty heavy. It shoot great in my opinion. I haven't shot it a lot, but it has given me close to 1 inch groups with handloads. I can get better than that out of it. If I were to buy an entry level AR today, I would buy this one without hesitation.

http://grabagun.com/del-ton-dt-sport-dark-earth-223-5-56-16-inch-30rd.html
 
stinger 327 said:
Is the Ruger and the Smith MP Mil-Spec? What are some examples of AR brands that are not Mil-Spec?
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No. They are not as close to mil spec as the 6920 is. The 6920 is probably the closest you can get to a civilian varient of mil spec.

If mil spec (or close enough to it) is what you want, get the 6920.

If you want "better" or "beyond" mil spec, buy BCM, Daniel Defense, KAC, Noveske, or Sionics.

If mil spec is not important to you, and/or you aren't interested in exceeding it then buy bushmaster, Smith &Wesson, Ruger, etc.
 
NWcityguy2 said:
They will shoot the same for several thousand rounds until the Ruger barrel burns out and the Colt and S&W keep chugging along.
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Can you cite the source for that statement in a non-military, non-ammo dump rapid fire environment?

Something left out of this whole thread is we don't know the OP's intended use. If it's just going to be a slow fire plinker, the cheapest name brand will suit. If it's going to be fired until the barrel is red hot even a chrome lined barrel will wear out. I agree with what Dranrab said above.

One AR15 I'd look at, Stinger is the APF ECONO CARBINE. It comes with a Vortex Strikefire Red Dot which I like a lot. Perhaps check some retail sites for a cheaper price but beware, some don't sell the rifle with the red dot included.
 
Ed Jaws said:
Can you cite the source for that statement in a non-military, non-ammo dump rapid fire environment?

Something left out of this whole thread is we don't know the OP's intended use. If it's just going to be a slow fire plinker, the cheapest name brand will suit. If it's going to be fired until the barrel is red hot even a chrome lined barrel will wear out. I agree with what Dranrab said above.

One AR15 I'd look at, Stinger is the APF ECONO CARBINE. It comes with a Vortex Strikefire Red Dot which I like a lot. Perhaps check some retail sites for a cheaper price but beware, some don't sell the rifle with the red dot included.
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Use would be for personal protection, predator hunting and range shooting. Basic all around usage and long range shooting.
 
Most of us arent kicking down doors, room clearing in war torn countries or engaging hostiles at 600m. If we are, uncle sam is supplying the weapon anyway. Armchair Rambo's will go on forever about which beeble or bobble makes their rifle the best thing ever made.
Short and sweet of it? Most any entry level carbine on the market from a reputable company is going to shoot, function and cost almost exactly the same. Blindfolded, you cant tell the difference between a Colt, Stag, RRA, PSA, S&W, Sig, Aero, Anderson, etc, etc, etc. Entry level AR's are like Pugs: Their all the same dog.
 
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Ed Jaws said:
Can you cite the source for that statement in a non-military, non-ammo dump rapid fire environment?

Something left out of this whole thread is we don't know the OP's intended use. If it's just going to be a slow fire plinker, the cheapest name brand will suit. If it's going to be fired until the barrel is red hot even a chrome lined barrel will wear out. I agree with what Dranrab said above.

One AR15 I'd look at, Stinger is the APF ECONO CARBINE. It comes with a Vortex Strikefire Red Dot which I like a lot. Perhaps check some retail sites for a cheaper price but beware, some don't sell the rifle with the red dot included.
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Why is this rifle advertised as "totally mil-spec" when the barrel is 4140 and is 1:9 rifling? What about chrome lining? Any heat shields in the handguards? For all we know this might be a great rifle, but the instant I see this kind of obviously incorrect information it just leaves me cold and reaching for the red "X" to leave the website. For many uses mil-spec isn't necessary, for other uses mil-spec is actually undesirable, but this manufacturer apparently doesn't have a clue what the term means.
 
stinger 327 said:
Use would be for personal protection, predator hunting and range shooting. Basic all around usage and long range shooting.
Click to expand...
If you plan to do much long range shooting, you might prefer the faster twist rate of the Colt or the Ruger to that of the Smith as it will better stabilize the heavier projectiles that long-range shooters seem to favor.
 
Jackal said:
Most of us arent kicking down doors, room clearing in war torn countries or engaging hostiles at 600m. If we are, uncle sam is supplying the weapon anyway. Armchair Rambo's will go on forever about which beeble or bobble makes their rifle the best thing ever made.
Short and sweet of it? Most any entry level carbine on the market from a reputable company is going to shoot, function and cost almost exactly the same. Blindfolded, you cant tell the difference between a Colt, Stag, RRA, PSA, S&W, Sig, Aero, Anderson, etc, etc, etc. Entry level AR's are like Pugs: Their all the same dog.
Click to expand...

I've actually wondered why no one's done that. Take 3-5 16 inch carbines, from milspec Colts to $450 Frankengun budget builds, then put electrical tape over the roll marks and shoot them side by side. I think you would be hard-pressed to notice a difference.

Regarding the Delton Sport posted above - I have one and really like it. It's fine as a plinker and I really like the pencil barrel, it puts the gun at under 6 pounds unloaded.
 
Ed Jaws said:
Can you cite the source for that statement in a non-military, non-ammo dump rapid fire environment?
Click to expand...

I can cite personal experience, as a competitive shooter, safety officer and match director that the generally assumed standard for an unlined, budget AR barrel is several thousand rounds. There is no one size fits all number, but the goal of a typical 3-gunner is aimed, accurate fire as fast as possible, but it doesn't need to be a tack driver. Some barrels last longer, some barrels don't. I've got a PSA Freedom with a Stainless barrel that is sitting between 4k and 5k rounds. After some break in it was shooting my handloads into 1moa. I've been meaning to go out and test it, so I will do that in the next couple days and post the information here. It's got a red dot on it now, but I'll throw a scope on it and post the results, good or bad. Barrels are a wear item and I've already got a replacement sitting in my possession.

You can read online about true match grade barrels lasting between 1500 and 5000 rounds, depending on the cartridge, but the accuracy standard for 3-gun is much, much less. I wouldn't shoot a rifle that can't group less than 3moa though.
 
pblanc said:
If you plan to do much long range shooting, you might prefer the faster twist rate of the Colt or the Ruger to that of the Smith as it will better stabilize the heavier projectiles that long-range shooters seem to favor.
Click to expand...

Like 1:8 twist , nitrided barrel & bolt group, mid-length gas systm, and free-floating handguard? What is the twist on Smith MP-15 Sporter?
 
The current Sport model has a 1:9 twist. Some 1:9 twist barrels will stabilize the currently popular 75-77gr BTHP bullets, some will not. I've seen it go both ways. They will stabilize the 67-69gr bullets though. A 1:8 twist barrel will stabilze every bullet meant to be seated to magazine depth. There are some bullets out there, for reloaders only, that are meant to be single fed into an AR. Unless you plan on reloading those, there is no benefit to anything faster than 1:8. OTOH, there isn't much drawback to a 1:7 barrel, as they will accurately shoot bullets down to 40 grains, assuming those bullets were meant for 223/5.56 velocities.

The honest truth is, if you plan on doing casual long range shooting, all of them are fine. It's not like a 69gr BTHP bullet is bad. But, going with a 1:8 or fast barrel gives you the option of shooting more ammo types and finding what your rifle likes. Two of my rifles (1:7 and 1:8 twist) shoots 52gr BTHP bullets better than the 75gr ones.
 
NWcityguy2 said:
The current Sport model has a 1:9 twist. Some 1:9 twist barrels will stabilize the currently popular 75-77gr BTHP bullets, some will not. I've seen it go both ways. They will stabilize the 67-69gr bullets though. A 1:8 twist barrel will stabilze every bullet meant to be seated to magazine depth. There are some bullets out there, for reloaders only, that are meant to be single fed into an AR. Unless you plan on reloading those, there is no benefit to anything faster than 1:8. OTOH, there isn't much drawback to a 1:7 barrel, as they will accurately shoot bullets down to 40 grains, assuming those bullets were meant for 223/5.56 velocities.

The honest truth is, if you plan on doing casual long range shooting, all of them are fine. It's not like a 69gr BTHP bullet is bad. But, going with a 1:8 or fast barrel gives you the option of shooting more ammo types and finding what your rifle likes. Two of my rifles (1:7 and 1:8 twist) shoots 52gr BTHP bullets better than the 75gr ones.
Click to expand...

So all 3 the Ruger AR 556, S & W MP-15 Sporter and Colt 6920 are all good for long range shooting.
 
NWcityguy2 said:
The current Sport model has a 1:9 twist. Some 1:9 twist barrels will stabilize the currently popular 75-77gr BTHP bullets, some will not. I've seen it go both ways. They will stabilize the 67-69gr bullets though. A 1:8 twist barrel will stabilze every bullet meant to be seated to magazine depth. There are some bullets out there, for reloaders only, that are meant to be single fed into an AR. Unless you plan on reloading those, there is no benefit to anything faster than 1:8. OTOH, there isn't much drawback to a 1:7 barrel, as they will accurately shoot bullets down to 40 grains, assuming those bullets were meant for 223/5.56 velocities.

The honest truth is, if you plan on doing casual long range shooting, all of them are fine. It's not like a 69gr BTHP bullet is bad. But, going with a 1:8 or fast barrel gives you the option of shooting more ammo types and finding what your rifle likes. Two of my rifles (1:7 and 1:8 twist) shoots 52gr BTHP bullets better than the 75gr ones.
Click to expand...

I've heard it said that every barrel is a law unto itself, and think that's probably true. This post is a great example of that.

Thank you for taking time to put that all that info into print. That was well said.

I also agree that there's no downside to a 1/7 twist ratio.
 
stinger 327 said:
So all 3 the Ruger AR 556, S & W MP-15 Sporter and Colt 6920 are all good for long range shooting.
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Depends on your definition. If your definition is to put service grade ammo on a torso sized target at range, then yes. They'll do it if you do your part.

If you're after precision (which I perceive is different than accuracy) then you may want to consider free floating, going with a 1/7 twist, and seeing which loads your barrel performs best with in regards to precision. ( read nwestcity's post about loads that his different barrels like and you'll get what I'm trying to say)

I'm limited by geography and topography. The longest shot on the almost 200 acres I have access to is less than 200 yards. (I live in the land of rolling hills and thick pine forests) Therefore, I am well suited by a basic non free floated barrel and will defer to others than can speak more intelligently about long range precision shooting.
 
Brownells has the Aero AC 15 midlength for $544 with code LAM. This is the best price I have seen and IMO the best of the entry level AR15s. This is the complete rifle not the oem.
 
NWcityguy2 said:
I've got a PSA Freedom with a Stainless barrel that is sitting between 4k and 5k rounds. After some break in it was shooting my handloads into 1moa. I've been meaning to go out and test it, so I will do that in the next couple days and post the information here.
Click to expand...

As promised I went out and did some accuracy testing of my PSA stainless steel barrel. Anyone who is interested can see the new thread here...

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/ar-15-barrel-wear-report.814520/
 
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