aka108
Member
Factory triggers are far from being reasonably good and accuracy, as stated earlier is hit or miss. For the price they could do a lot better.
Ruger bolt action rifles - why are they not more popular?
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Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
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1. Their politics are enough to turn away many, regardless of how good their guns are. After all, Ruger does more to destroy YOUR gun rights before 9am than HCI does all day.
2. The accuracy is purportedly very hit and miss. Many report mediocre to (relatively) dismal accuracy - 3 to 4 MOA. Although many also report good accuracy.
3. Any company who actually produced this abominable eyesore - well that's enough to do it for me - that's like setting up a production line to spit out Rosie O'Donnel clones:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=96212719#PIC
They have many gun models that are the height of ugliness, from the auto pistols, to the MK2/MK3, to their leverguns. It's like they go out of their way to make the gun as fugly as possible.
4. As mentioned, their triggers are pretty bad. This is espec. bad in light of the good trigger revolution among common-man rifles now happening, started by Savage.
2. The accuracy is purportedly very hit and miss. Many report mediocre to (relatively) dismal accuracy - 3 to 4 MOA. Although many also report good accuracy.
3. Any company who actually produced this abominable eyesore - well that's enough to do it for me - that's like setting up a production line to spit out Rosie O'Donnel clones:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=96212719#PIC
They have many gun models that are the height of ugliness, from the auto pistols, to the MK2/MK3, to their leverguns. It's like they go out of their way to make the gun as fugly as possible.
4. As mentioned, their triggers are pretty bad. This is espec. bad in light of the good trigger revolution among common-man rifles now happening, started by Savage.
With all the new kids on the block making bolt action rifles the last couple of years the old stand-by's have a hard time keeping up I think. Just think of all the new stuff to hit the market. This is a market that really has had little change in the past 50 years in comparison to other things like cars. Bolt action designs are not drastically different than mausers designed over 100 years ago. Now we have new: S&W Ibolt, TC Icon, Tikka, Savage 4x4, Kimber, Cooper, Howa, Rem. 798, etc. etc. And the AR rage has really flipped the market upsided down. My local gunshop tells me around 1 in 3 longguns is an AR.
I also can't imagine why people think they're overpriced. The Hawkeyes are $550 at my gunshop. While the Tikka's go for $600. And I dont' think I'm alone making the argument that Tikka's are the epitomy of manufacturing shortcuts. Overpriced would be the Remingtons IMO. The 700 VSSF II sells for $975 when I can get a heavy barrel Cooper for $1100 guaranteed to shoot 1/2" @100.
I also can't imagine why people think they're overpriced. The Hawkeyes are $550 at my gunshop. While the Tikka's go for $600. And I dont' think I'm alone making the argument that Tikka's are the epitomy of manufacturing shortcuts. Overpriced would be the Remingtons IMO. The 700 VSSF II sells for $975 when I can get a heavy barrel Cooper for $1100 guaranteed to shoot 1/2" @100.
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IndianaBoy
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I wonder how many of the negatives are posted by those who actually own or shoot a Ruger bolt action.
I have never shot a more accurate rifle. The 2 stage trigger is excellent.
If you don't like the Ruger rings, can't argue with that. But if you want low or high rings, they will swap you for free if you send them the medium rings that came with your rifle.
It was easy to find a handload that this rifle likes. Any bullet on top of any amount of varget will shoot well.
I never tried anything else. Didn't need to.
Perhaps someone could provide me a reference to a cast Ruger receiver failing. I doubt it.
Maybe I got the only good rifle Ruger ever made. But I doubt it.
I have never shot a more accurate rifle. The 2 stage trigger is excellent.
If you don't like the Ruger rings, can't argue with that. But if you want low or high rings, they will swap you for free if you send them the medium rings that came with your rifle.
It was easy to find a handload that this rifle likes. Any bullet on top of any amount of varget will shoot well.
I never tried anything else. Didn't need to.
Perhaps someone could provide me a reference to a cast Ruger receiver failing. I doubt it.
Maybe I got the only good rifle Ruger ever made. But I doubt it.
ChopperKen
Member
Indiana Boy,
You didn't get the only good one!
I have a 77mkii in 6.5 x 55 that shoots sub 1" groups all day long.
Paid 300.00 for it, did the trigger and free floated the barrel myself(took about an hour),
346 yard head shot to a doe last season offhand... this gun is not for sale!!!
I also have a 77-22 varmit/target, I use it for shooting flys off the 50 yard target backer, its almost as accurate as my friends winchester mod 52D....
PS, my friend has a 220 swift tang saftey w/the heavy target barrel, Ive used it for head shooting woodchucks at over 400 yards
Great old caliber
You didn't get the only good one!
I have a 77mkii in 6.5 x 55 that shoots sub 1" groups all day long.
Paid 300.00 for it, did the trigger and free floated the barrel myself(took about an hour),
346 yard head shot to a doe last season offhand... this gun is not for sale!!!
I also have a 77-22 varmit/target, I use it for shooting flys off the 50 yard target backer, its almost as accurate as my friends winchester mod 52D....
PS, my friend has a 220 swift tang saftey w/the heavy target barrel, Ive used it for head shooting woodchucks at over 400 yards
Great old caliber
Regolith
Member
My father has two Ruger M77's, earlier models I believe. They're nice enough rifles (and I killed my first deer with the one chambered in .280 Rem.), but for the price....there are simply other rifles out there that are cheaper, have far more after-market accessories, and more accurate out of the box.
Here we go. The sub MOA out of the box rifle. I hear a lot about them, but they sure don't show up at the range.
MOA means, to me, the gun will reliably shoot 1.042 inch CTC 5 round groups with no flyers or 'called' shots, every single time, rain or shine. Just because you once put 3 rounds into an inch doesn't make it a 1 MOA rifle.
I've owned a few M77s, purchased precisely because they were Mauser copies, and have been disappointed every single time. I have yet to see one that would shoot at what I call acceptable accuracy.
The M77 is a good basic hunting rifle, where 2 or 3 MOA is all you need to harvest a deer, and it is targeted towards the budget shooter.
Accuracy is mediocre, wood is poor and bedding leaves a lot to be desired. I'm sure Ruger thinks their angled action screw is a feature. Try pillar bedding one.
As WEG noted, if I can't mount a decent Picatinny rail on it, I am not interested. IME, Ruger rings often don't even line up properly. Close enough for a low end scope, but I'm not screwing a $2500 USO into their mounts.
The M77 is what it is: The standard Ford or Chevy of the rifle world. The problem is that for a couple hundred dollars more, you can get a better shooting rifle. And given that the typical rifle can last 50 years, the difference in price in paltry.
The Ruger name and accuracy don't go in the same sentence. Sorry Ruger fans.
YMMV
MOA means, to me, the gun will reliably shoot 1.042 inch CTC 5 round groups with no flyers or 'called' shots, every single time, rain or shine. Just because you once put 3 rounds into an inch doesn't make it a 1 MOA rifle.
I've owned a few M77s, purchased precisely because they were Mauser copies, and have been disappointed every single time. I have yet to see one that would shoot at what I call acceptable accuracy.
The M77 is a good basic hunting rifle, where 2 or 3 MOA is all you need to harvest a deer, and it is targeted towards the budget shooter.
Accuracy is mediocre, wood is poor and bedding leaves a lot to be desired. I'm sure Ruger thinks their angled action screw is a feature. Try pillar bedding one.
As WEG noted, if I can't mount a decent Picatinny rail on it, I am not interested. IME, Ruger rings often don't even line up properly. Close enough for a low end scope, but I'm not screwing a $2500 USO into their mounts.
The M77 is what it is: The standard Ford or Chevy of the rifle world. The problem is that for a couple hundred dollars more, you can get a better shooting rifle. And given that the typical rifle can last 50 years, the difference in price in paltry.
The Ruger name and accuracy don't go in the same sentence. Sorry Ruger fans.
YMMV
IndianaBoy
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I assume you are referring to me, since I posted a picture of a group from my rifle.
That is an outstanding group for my rifle. But 'MOA' is common for it. Sorry for not having a database of groups shot with my rifle, as most of the time it is shot at varmints. I would be happy to shoot my Ruger side by side with anyone's stock Savage, Winchester or Remington. Perhaps you would be so kind as to show us some results from your 1.042 inch shooting rifles.
I wonder, in the days before the intarweb.. if shooters got their panties in a bunch about 1.042 inch groups or better being the gold standard of a rifle.
If I were going to build a precision rifle for 1000 yard shots. I certainly wouldn't use a Ruger action. That doesn't mean that Ruger makes junk. What is so funny about the whole 'Rugers are inaccurate' stigma, is that I know in MY CASE, that it is not true.
Some people just can't seem to praise one product without running down another. I'm not sure why.
Oh yeah, another nice thing about Ruger is how many chamberings they offer their rifles in. Some very nice intermediate and large bore calibers that aren't offered by the 308/30-06/7mm Mag producing companies. Not that those aren't fine options. My Winchester M70 looks great sitting next to my Ruger in the safe.
My mileage does vary.
IndianaBoy
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Found a picture of a group I shot on a fairly windy day. Ten shot group from a makeshift rest. The low shot was my fault, as the rifle is more accurate than I am. Being a guy who reads gun rag rifle reviews with great skepticism about 'called flyers' you can believe me or not. But that's the truth.
Pity.... I'm not sure if it is smaller than 1.042 inches. If it is 1.043 I may just have to toss my rifle in a lake.
I'd be happy to actually bench the gun sometime for the naysayers. But I happen to prefer burning powder for coyotes rather than constantly punching boringly small holes in paper.
That's what 22s are for.
Pity.... I'm not sure if it is smaller than 1.042 inches. If it is 1.043 I may just have to toss my rifle in a lake.
I'd be happy to actually bench the gun sometime for the naysayers. But I happen to prefer burning powder for coyotes rather than constantly punching boringly small holes in paper.
That's what 22s are for.
IndianaBoy
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At the risk of being labeled a 'fanboy' or some such nonsense... I have experienced some terrible inaccuracy with one Ruger rifle that I would not personally own.
I don't like their centerfire handguns, although I do enjoy my Mark II.
I don't like their centerfire handguns, although I do enjoy my Mark II.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
I've had three 77s over the years. The first, 1973, was a 3/4 MOA .243. Then, a heavy-barrelled Swift; 3/8" MOA. Granted, I did put a single-set Canjar trigger on it, but it wasn't because of the Ruger trigger itself. I just like Canjar triggers. I installed one on my Weatherby Mk V, for that matter...
My only gripe about the presently-owned 77 Mk II in 223 was the "tort liability" trigger that came with it. Mr. Timney solved that problem. 1/2 MOA for three shots with almost all loads. Holds minute-of-prairie-dog to 300 or so.
I guess I'm like a lot of old hot-rodders: Showroom stock just won't cut it.
But I've never had to rebed the forearm of a 77, which is more than I can say for my Weatherby or my Sako.
My only gripe about the presently-owned 77 Mk II in 223 was the "tort liability" trigger that came with it. Mr. Timney solved that problem.
1/2 MOA for three shots with almost all loads. Holds minute-of-prairie-dog to 300 or so.I guess I'm like a lot of old hot-rodders: Showroom stock just won't cut it.
But I've never had to rebed the forearm of a 77, which is more than I can say for my Weatherby or my Sako.
unlearned69
Member
When I think of Ruger I think 10/22, 22 pistols, and the mini-14. I think of other companies when I think bolt action rifle. When I think of Ruger HUNTING rifles, I think No. 1.
GunTech said:
I have no doubt my MOA rifles would hold their tight groups to 5 shots instead of 3 shots, but I refuse to put that amount of rounds down the barrel without cool-downs. It's just a personal thing for me. To boot, I have never gotten off more than 1 shot at a varmint. While I do focus on the group size, the first shot is all that really matters for me in varmint rifles.
Re: Ruger and accuracy, I have seen many Rugers at the bench that were tremendously accurate. I heard rumor that the woodchucks have started going to mass during varmint season due to Ruger's new .204.
I think there is as much "personal choice" with rifles as their is anything else firearms-related. For me, I merely prefer the Rem 700 because I have owned several of them. That aside, I have never viewed Ruger as inferior by any means...just unfamiliar to me personally. Habit keeps me with Remington.
Doc2005
I have no doubt my MOA rifles would hold their tight groups to 5 shots instead of 3 shots, but I refuse to put that amount of rounds down the barrel without cool-downs. It's just a personal thing for me.
To boot, I have never gotten off more than 1 shot at a varmint. While I do focus on the group size, the first shot is all that really matters for me in varmint rifles.Re: Ruger and accuracy, I have seen many Rugers at the bench that were tremendously accurate. I heard rumor that the woodchucks have started going to mass during varmint season due to Ruger's new .204.
I think there is as much "personal choice" with rifles as their is anything else firearms-related. For me, I merely prefer the Rem 700 because I have owned several of them. That aside, I have never viewed Ruger as inferior by any means...just unfamiliar to me personally. Habit keeps me with Remington.
Doc2005
for some reason lately I have been gathering Rugers. Don't know why. Does not matter to me. No centerfires. almost bought a varmint model but decided not to.
I have heard many of the same arguments about Rugers centerfires as the rimfires.
"They are inaccurate, they have bad barrels, the do not shoot consistently, bad triggers, to expensive for what you get"
People say all the time that a savage or marlin will out shoot a Ruger (rimfire) for 200 dollars less, not true.
I have yet to find a ruger with a good trigger, I have 2 10/22's, 1 charger, 1 P345, 1 single six, OK, MY single six has a sweet trigger, a 77/17HMR/22LR/17HM2. ALL have had trigger jobs.
On my 77 I pulled the trigger and said "this sucks", went and bought a Rifle Basix and installed that, now it is perfect.
I will say the rifles are a little over priced, Especially compared to a CZ, but they are made to be a very durable hunting rifle, that looks good also. .
I will say that their all weather stock, AKA the boat paddle, is fugly, but it is incredibly durable.
Rugers scope mounts are rock solid, but for my 77/17 I bought a warne mount and installed it, much easier.
When I pick up a Ruger it feels like a rifle should, rock solid, comfortable, smooth as butter and tight bolt.
Not the same when I pick up a remington, winchester or savage, they all feel just OK to me, I know that they usually are better shooters but when I pick one up they do not feel as solid as a ruger.
Would I but a Ruger for target shooting, no, I would probably go with a Savage. But, as mentioned many time before, they are excellent hunting rifles.
I picked up a Mossberg ATR in 308 and, while not a tackdriver, it does exactly what I want, shoots a touch over an inch at 100 with good ammo, and is super comfortable to shoot, not to mention great wood.
I have heard many of the same arguments about Rugers centerfires as the rimfires.
"They are inaccurate, they have bad barrels, the do not shoot consistently, bad triggers, to expensive for what you get"
People say all the time that a savage or marlin will out shoot a Ruger (rimfire) for 200 dollars less, not true.
I have yet to find a ruger with a good trigger, I have 2 10/22's, 1 charger, 1 P345, 1 single six, OK, MY single six has a sweet trigger, a 77/17HMR/22LR/17HM2. ALL have had trigger jobs.
On my 77 I pulled the trigger and said "this sucks", went and bought a Rifle Basix and installed that, now it is perfect.
I will say the rifles are a little over priced, Especially compared to a CZ, but they are made to be a very durable hunting rifle, that looks good also. .
I will say that their all weather stock, AKA the boat paddle, is fugly, but it is incredibly durable.
Rugers scope mounts are rock solid, but for my 77/17 I bought a warne mount and installed it, much easier.
When I pick up a Ruger it feels like a rifle should, rock solid, comfortable, smooth as butter and tight bolt.
Not the same when I pick up a remington, winchester or savage, they all feel just OK to me, I know that they usually are better shooters but when I pick one up they do not feel as solid as a ruger.
Would I but a Ruger for target shooting, no, I would probably go with a Savage. But, as mentioned many time before, they are excellent hunting rifles.
I picked up a Mossberg ATR in 308 and, while not a tackdriver, it does exactly what I want, shoots a touch over an inch at 100 with good ammo, and is super comfortable to shoot, not to mention great wood.
BIGR
Since Ruger makes their own steel in house they are able to use whatever alloy they want to mix. This is an advantage to other companies having to order from a limited selection of stainless stock. It is widely accepted among the people I talk guns with that Ruger stainless is not as prone to rust as other mfg. While on the subject of creating their own alloys. Rugers are typically in the 50's on the Rockwell hardness while other steels are in the 30's. This is why they are able to get away with the sharp cut edges on the reciever for the ringmounts. On anyone elses softer steel these lips would dent when the rings are tightened down.
I'm not saying Rugers are generally better than anything else. I own or have owned at least one of every major mfg's rifles. I don't have a reason to be bias. I am not trying to justify my purchase by saying Rugers are great. But I will tell you when you de-stock and totally disassemble a Ruger and then do the same to a Remington 700, the Remington seems cheaply built. Everything about it is a shortcut compared to the Ruger IMO. 3 piece bolt vs. 1 piece stainless, flat bottom reciever vs. one drilled out of pipe, 3 position safety vs simple 2 position, claw controlled vs. a rivoted pin ejector etc. etc. Again I own more than 1 Remington 700 and I like them. But they got nothing on Rugers as far as I'm concerned. And the Heavy barreled Rugers that I've shot shoot better than my 700 VS to be sure.
Since Ruger makes their own steel in house they are able to use whatever alloy they want to mix. This is an advantage to other companies having to order from a limited selection of stainless stock. It is widely accepted among the people I talk guns with that Ruger stainless is not as prone to rust as other mfg. While on the subject of creating their own alloys. Rugers are typically in the 50's on the Rockwell hardness while other steels are in the 30's. This is why they are able to get away with the sharp cut edges on the reciever for the ringmounts. On anyone elses softer steel these lips would dent when the rings are tightened down.
I'm not saying Rugers are generally better than anything else. I own or have owned at least one of every major mfg's rifles. I don't have a reason to be bias. I am not trying to justify my purchase by saying Rugers are great. But I will tell you when you de-stock and totally disassemble a Ruger and then do the same to a Remington 700, the Remington seems cheaply built. Everything about it is a shortcut compared to the Ruger IMO. 3 piece bolt vs. 1 piece stainless, flat bottom reciever vs. one drilled out of pipe, 3 position safety vs simple 2 position, claw controlled vs. a rivoted pin ejector etc. etc. Again I own more than 1 Remington 700 and I like them. But they got nothing on Rugers as far as I'm concerned. And the Heavy barreled Rugers that I've shot shoot better than my 700 VS to be sure.
Well...my two cents worth...I have a M77...tang safety in 30-06. It is not my target rifle for sure....one of my deer hunting rifles....but when I go to the range before season to check the scope...she prints one inch or tad less...3 shot groups with Federal 150gr factory ammo....
Also another thing with Ruger is their excelliant customer service. When I bought my 06....it had the laminated stock...I did not like it...heavy...had no checkering....just me....Hunted with it one season then I wrote Ruger a letter asking if I send my rifle in to exchange the (now used) laminated stock for a new walnut I would pay the difference..They said they would be more than happy to do this. Sent the rifle.....got it back about 3 weeks later with a beautiful walnut stock!.....and the bill was marked.....No Charge................
One of my favorite hunting rifle!
Also another thing with Ruger is their excelliant customer service. When I bought my 06....it had the laminated stock...I did not like it...heavy...had no checkering....just me....Hunted with it one season then I wrote Ruger a letter asking if I send my rifle in to exchange the (now used) laminated stock for a new walnut I would pay the difference..They said they would be more than happy to do this. Sent the rifle.....got it back about 3 weeks later with a beautiful walnut stock!.....and the bill was marked.....No Charge................
One of my favorite hunting rifle!
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Horsemany,
Thanks for the info. I have model 70's and model 700's but don't own anything in Ruger other than (3) 10/22's , (1) 22 mag bolt gun, (1) MK II GOV .22 and of course the Super Red Hawk. I must say that I love all of those guns. Some reason the ruger bolt guns in the centerfire calibers never did interest me much but just recently after the 300 RCM, 338 RCM and Hawkeye were announced I took notice. I do prefer stainless guns for the durarbilty and I hate rust. If the Ruger stainless guns are better at rust protection the thats a plus. Yea I take care of my guns but hate having to worry about a blued gun rusting on a 2 week long hunt in bad weather. You can wipe them off every night but at some point you will miss a spot or some salty finger prints will leave some rust. I might just have to try one out in a caliber that I don't already have.
Thanks for the info. I have model 70's and model 700's but don't own anything in Ruger other than (3) 10/22's , (1) 22 mag bolt gun, (1) MK II GOV .22 and of course the Super Red Hawk. I must say that I love all of those guns. Some reason the ruger bolt guns in the centerfire calibers never did interest me much but just recently after the 300 RCM, 338 RCM and Hawkeye were announced I took notice. I do prefer stainless guns for the durarbilty and I hate rust. If the Ruger stainless guns are better at rust protection the thats a plus. Yea I take care of my guns but hate having to worry about a blued gun rusting on a 2 week long hunt in bad weather. You can wipe them off every night but at some point you will miss a spot or some salty finger prints will leave some rust. I might just have to try one out in a caliber that I don't already have.
RevolverMan567
Member
politics
i may be an ass, but thats fine, ruger lost any support from me when bill ruger went on his soapbox about selling hi cap mags to "civilians" because "we" dont "need" them and no "sportsman should" i wouldnt lose a wink if ruger never sold another rifle or other firearm. while it would be a shame if another american made company went under as lng as their support went to another american made company it would be no major issue to me anyway.
again this is my opinion and i may be on my own
i may be an ass, but thats fine, ruger lost any support from me when bill ruger went on his soapbox about selling hi cap mags to "civilians" because "we" dont "need" them and no "sportsman should" i wouldnt lose a wink if ruger never sold another rifle or other firearm. while it would be a shame if another american made company went under as lng as their support went to another american made company it would be no major issue to me anyway.
again this is my opinion and i may be on my own
Shell Shucker
Member
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I don't like the scope rings. They often don't line up properly. If you need a different height they are a PITA to get and expensive. The triggers are rough and heavy. I have fixed three with Timney parts. Accuracy is spotty.
That is actually the first time I have ever heard that. Though obviously as the cheaper sister of the the famed Sako, that could be assumed to be the case. What exactly are the manufacturing shortcuts? I honestly don't know.
FWIW the 2 Tikka's I have had the pleasure to shoot had good triggers and great accuracy.
rbernie
Contributing Member
Bill Ruger is dead. In his current state, he's not in a position to impose much influence upon the company that bears his name. It makes little sense to punish them for the acts of a man now dead-n-gone.
I like Rugers. They are acceptably accurate, are built like brick outhouses, and I like having a CRF rifle. They just need to be less expensive.
I buy mine on sale, and I have yet to pay more than $500 NIB for any of mine.
Eleven Mike
Member
If you're talking about these:
I think those stocks were discontinued. The new stocks are like so:
Or Hogue Overmolds like this:
Why some of you would complain about a logo on the floor plate, I don't understand. It's a floorplate. Who spends their time looking at the floorplate?
ImARugerFan
Member
My m77 has the stock adjustable trigger, it pulls like a dream :-D Not to mention the gun is absolutely gorgeous. I don't know how accurate it is, but it's more accurate than I am. Hell, if it's within 4" at a hundred yards (it's far better than that) it'll kill all the deer/coyote I ever need it to.
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