Ruger buys Marlin

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I have hope as to what models will be produced and particularly the lever guns. I just want assurance any changes do not involve pot metal. I want to see quality lever guns like Marlin made for decades without the prices going out of control. Keep it steel and wood. If not Ruger, than who ? I think this can be a good thing if done right.
 
mnrivrat said:
I have hope as to what models will be produced and particularly the lever guns. I just want assurance any changes do not involve pot metal. I want to see quality lever guns like Marlin made for decades without the prices going out of control. Keep it steel and wood. If not Ruger, than who ? I think this can be a good thing if done right.
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Why would Ruger used “pot metal”? They do nothing like that with the guns they manufacture now.
 
I imagine they mainly bought them to have a rifle manufacturers name under their belt, even with all the Ruger rifles out there Ruger is a handgun manufacturer and their rifles are decent but nothing to write home about especially in the accuracy department as generally any competitors comparable rifle will be well ahead in that regard with everything else equal.

The axis is a good bit better than the American, I really don't know anyone who would pick up a m77 over literally anything else in the price range. The 10/22 is a starter set box of Legos that you off the back swap the barrel, if you wanted out of the box accuracy in a cheap semi .22 you got the m60.

Marlin gets them a strictly dickly rifle manufacturer and allows them to do a bit of dodge vs ram you handle the trucks we will take care of the cars kinda thing and solidify the range without watering down the brands image
 
alexander45 said:
I imagine they mainly bought them to have a rifle manufacturers name under their belt, even with all the Ruger rifles out there Ruger is a handgun manufacturer and their rifles are decent but nothing to write home about especially in the accuracy department as generally any competitors comparable rifle will be well ahead in that regard with everything else equal.

The axis is a good bit better than the American, I really don't know anyone who would pick up a m77 over literally anything else in the price range. The 10/22 is a starter set box of Legos that you off the back swap the barrel, if you wanted out of the box accuracy in a cheap semi .22 you got the m60.

Marlin gets them a strictly dickly rifle manufacturer and allows them to do a bit of dodge vs ram you handle the trucks we will take care of the cars kinda thing and solidify the range without watering down the brands image
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They bought them because leverguns fit like a glove within their product line, especially big bore single action revolvers. A 454 Casull wheelgun + a 454 Casull levergun, sounds wonderful!
 
I think this is really just about Ruger getting the cowboy style lever actions so they can pair them with their single action revolvers. A Ruger Vaquero combined with a new Ruger rifle in 357 or 45 Colt will be great for marketing.
 
I noticed in the recent release that Ruger bought all of Marlin's machinery and intellectual property but not the buildings or real estate associated with the company. Marlin will be making another move like when the New Haven plant closed down under the Remington buy. I am hoping the quality checkers at Ruger do a better job than Remington did.
 
jski said:
Ruger bought Marlin. Personally I think this is the best possible outcome for Marlin. Ruger is well managed by people who understand guns and the American gun culture. And, just as importantly, Ruger is a company with the assets to right the Marlin ship. Marlin’s market cap is ~$1.3 billion.

Comments? Opinions? Questions?
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I suspect the pucker factor over at Henry Rifle & Shotgun is palpable right now...
 
jmr40 said:
If both are owned by the same parent company they are no longer competitors, but partners. Overall I see this as a good thing but Ruger has a reputation for sending a lot of guns out the door with issues. They are great about correcting them. I just wish they did a better job of getting it right the 1st time.
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No.
 
There weren't any Marlin factories to buy. Marlins were made in Remington factories. The real concern will be that Ruger might modify the design of the lever actions to fit into Ruger's manufacturing processes such as extensive use of cast parts.
 
mcb said:
Just playing devils advocate below and being an engineer it skews my opinion in its on unique way. :D

IP in the gun industry is not worth much as it's too easy to engineer around and/or too expensive to defend in many cases. And the really desirable Marlin Products (ie the leverguns) are long out of an IP protection.

Customer lists in the age of super vendors and distributors and the such is less valuable that in earlier years.

Inventory of unknown quality that you did not make, you would really have to trust Marlin's (Remington's) QC and we all know it was not what it needed to be. Imagine the risks of build your first Ruglins on old Remlin parts. :eek:

Used machines are like buying used cars, there are good deals but you really have to test drive them to be sure. I suspect Ruger did not get a test drive.

Research is nearly useless without the people that created it and they are all gone. Nothing is left of the original Marlin staff and Remington has lost nearly 90% of it engineering staff since the first bankruptcy.

Reputation and good will are nice but buying Marlin gets the good and the bad parts of Marlin's reputation (baggage) and the good will only lasts until they buy the first Ruglin then it all go away if you screwed it up.

Competition is good IMHO, competition keeps you honest and driven.

Just the engineer speaking I would have simple started making Ruger leverguns and skipped the Marlin/Remington baggage, but the business guys rarely listen to the engineers, justifiably in many cases. :D

ETA: I vote for Ruglin!
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You have to take this in context. First, Ruger paid $30M for the Marlin name and assets. That's chump change -- they wrote a check. The name alone is well worth that.

Marlin's manufacturing processes were in horrid shape. When they were moved from CT to NY, they suffered even more.Remington therefore plowed plenty of $$$ into Marlin in the past 5+ years, so the manufacturing processes are now in good shape. I have no doubt that Ruger engineers (and those from other companies) closely inspected the equipment, the processing instructions, product drawings, etc.

I see Ruger getting into lever guns, Keep the Marlin M60 22 going, and possibly an entry level .22 bolt.

It sounds to me like there is VERY LITTLE Marlin WIP and FGI. A non-starter.

There really is no Marlin/Remington "baggage" per se. They bought the assets of Marlin.
 
Solomonson said:
You have to take this in context. First, Ruger paid $30M for the Marlin name and assets. That's chump change -- they wrote a check. The name alone is well worth that.

Marlin's manufacturing processes were in horrid shape. When they were moved from CT to NY, they suffered even more.Remington therefore plowed plenty of $$$ into Marlin in the past 5+ years, so the manufacturing processes are now in good shape. I have no doubt that Ruger engineers (and those from other companies) closely inspected the equipment, the processing instructions, product drawings, etc.

I see Ruger getting into lever guns, Keep the Marlin M60 22 going, and possibly an entry level .22 bolt.

It sounds to me like there is VERY LITTLE Marlin WIP and FGI. A non-starter.

There really is no Marlin/Remington "baggage" per se. They bought the assets of Marlin.
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Marlin was definitely in bad shape but I don't think Remington made a $30 million dollar improvement on it IMHO. Given what I know of the deal I highly doubt the equipment got more than a cursory inspection (I don't think Ruger Reps even visited the Huntsville facility where the Marlin rimfires are made) and I really doubt the drawings got inspected at all knowing what I know of that.

$30 million dollars would buy a fair amount of new machines with enough money left over to engineer your own lever-action rather than buy someone else questionable design but that is the engineer in me talking.
 
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The other option I hadn't considered is a Marlin lever gun in .204 Ruger which would be one hell of a coyote carbine. Only downside is lots of jurisdictions don't allow anything smaller than a .22 caliber bullet for larger game like antelope.
 
Cannibul said:
They didn't get the equipment. They got the name and the IP.

Remington didn't move equipment. The equipment at Marlin was worn out. It had more worth as scrap. That's why Remington had such a hard time producing working rifles. There were no current blueprints. Documentation was basically "back of a napkin" if it was written down at all. Most of the knowledge on how to build Marlin rifles was locked up in the heads of the workers. There were very few of those workers who were offered the chance to move and even fewer who did.

Remington basically had to reverse engineer the Marlin products.
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Yes they did. When Remington (or whatever it was called back then) bought Marlin, they eventually closed the the North Haven Plant and moved production. In North Haven, production was just fine -- but it was relying on experienced employees who knew how to work around Marlin's dated/worn manufacturing processes. It was when they moved production, where product quality issues popped-up.

There was nothing exactly cutting edge about Marlin's products. I have no doubt they had solid design drawings to work from. No "reverse engineering" needed. Oh the other hand, their production documentation may well have needed help.
 
Solomonson said:
Yes they did. When Remington (or whatever it was called back then) bought Marlin, they eventually closed the the North Haven Plant and moved production. In North Haven, production was just fine -- but it was relying on experienced employees who knew how to work around Marlin's dated/worn manufacturing processes. It was when they moved production, where product quality issues popped-up.

There was nothing exactly cutting edge about Marlin's products. I have no doubt they had solid design drawings to work from. No "reverse engineering" needed. Oh the other hand, their production documentation may well have needed help.
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It is my understand that very little of the Marlin CT equipment was even moved from Marlin to Remington due to its poor condition and what was moved was often sabotage by Marlin employees. That was not a friendly take-over of Marlin by Remington. There was not much cooperation. I also know that Marlin's data packages for their products were woefully behind (much was still on hand drawn drawings with woefully inadequate anotation) and Remington engineering has to do a lot of work to create modern CAD models and drawings. Yes production documentation was nearly non-existent and due to the hard feeling between the two companies much of the undocumented production tribal knowledge simply walked away and was lost. It took Remington a lot of work and time to re-engineer a lot of it. They never did figure out the 39A despite trying.

Ruger is in for a similar challenge. They should have a better starting point with Remington's modern CAD models and drawing but again the tribal knowledge has already walked away. This time less so due to hostilities and more so due to attrition at Remington due to poor management. As I have mentioned in this or other threads on the Remington Bankruptcy. Remington has lost about 90% of its design engineers since the 2018 Bankruptcy. Most of the Marlin knowledge has already "left the building" as it were. Ruger engineers will have a fair bit of work to do especially with the fact that production is moving from Ilion and Huntsville to one or more or Ruger's facilities. They will have to train new people since I don't think they will get many of the few remain people from Remington to move, if that is even offered.

$30 million got Ruger the Marlin name and trademarks and a nearly complete data package for much of the product lines and not much else. It will be interesting to see how the machines get divied up. Marlin was very integrated into Remington and one machine might make Marlin parts one day and Remington parts the next and Bushmaster parts the day after. Who gets that machine? I am sure the accountants have that all figured out but how will the engineers and machinist like it is still up in the air.

I personally think Ruger will figure it out I just think its going to take more time and effort than Ruger is expecting, we are hoping, and in hindsight I suspect it will not have been worth 30mil but what do I know I am just a rambling engineer.
 
mcb said:
It is my understand that very little of the Marlin CT equipment was even moved from Marlin to Remington due to its poor condition and what was moved was often sabotage by Marlin employees. That was not a friendly take-over of Marlin by Remington. There was not much cooperation. I also know that Marlin's data packages for their products were woefully behind (much was still on hand drawn drawings with woefully inadequate anotation) and Remington engineering has to do a lot of work to create modern CAD models and drawings. Yes production documentation was nearly non-existent and due to the hard feeling between the two companies much of the undocumented production tribal knowledge simply walked away and was lost. It took Remington a lot of work and time to re-engineer a lot of it. They never did figure out the 39A despite trying.

Ruger is in for a similar challenge. They should have a better starting point with Remington's modern CAD models and drawing but again the tribal knowledge has already walked away. This time less so due to hostilities and more so due to attrition at Remington due to poor management. As I have mentioned in this or other threads on the Remington Bankruptcy. Remington has lost about 90% of its design engineers since the 2018 Bankruptcy. Most of the Marlin knowledge has already "left the building" as it were. Ruger engineers will have a fair bit of work to do especially with the fact that production is moving from Ilion and Huntsville to one or more or Ruger's facilities. They will have to train new people since I don't think they will get many of the few remain people from Remington to move, if that is even offered.

$30 million got Ruger the Marlin name and trademarks and a nearly complete data package for much of the product lines and not much else. It will be interesting to see how the machines get divied up. Marlin was very integrated into Remington and one machine might make Marlin parts one day and Remington parts the next and Bushmaster parts the day after. Who gets that machine? I am sure the accountants have that all figured out but how will the engineers and machinist like it is still up in the air.

I personally think Ruger will figure it out I just think its going to take more time and effort than Ruger is expecting, we are hoping, and in hindsight I suspect it will not have been worth 30mil but what do I know I am just a rambling engineer.
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Firearms are neither rocket engines nor satellites. In the end, they are fairly simple, all mechanical machines.
 
Deus Machina said:
Almost bought a new Model 60 today, decided not to because the current quality probably wouldn't hold up to the pre-remington one I had.
Now I may reconsider, depending what Ruger does.
I do hope they keep the 60.
Heck, I hope they copy the micro-groove rifling. Don't know if it was because of design or quality, but that thing was stupidly accurate.
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I have 3 older 60s and a 795 and they are good shooters. I need 1 more 60 so that dad and all three kids can have a 60 of similar vintage.
 
mcb said:
Marlin was very integrated into Remington and one machine might make Marlin parts one day and Remington parts the next and Bushmaster parts the day after. Who gets that machine?
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Would not be much surprised if all the machinery was on lease-buy back, and not owned by either Marlin nor Remington. The tooling, the actual cutting tools were company property--and typically matched to the specific machine. Machine code also will belong to the Company and not the machine.

The other "trick" of it is in knowing the best calculus of how many machine doing how many machining steps. Which ought to be in the DP documentation. Single-point machining still has a place in mass production.
 
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