Ruger LCP And General Pocket Gun Hatred

[Charlie98]

Those AMTs were not too bad once they were tuned. Have to use the proper lube (stainless on stainless = Rig+p grease)

What's funny was... my DAO was quite reliable, I know because I shot it a lot to keep in practice. I also cracked the slide in half at the ejection port. Yes, AMT put a new slide on... and it went to the next gun show as trade fodder. That's when I started to carry the Colt Government .380...

 

[Charlie98]

do not blur the lines of Defense and Offense

I was just talking about that the other day with a friend. People are sometimes too quick to volunteer the use of deadly force. Maybe they are just talking smack over a beer, but the mindset that you would draw your weapon against a non-life threatening situation can be dangerous.

 

[DeepSouth]

but for their intended purpose, they are *excellent*.

I could be wrong but I think the intended purpose is where most of the “hate” is targeted, more so than the tool. J-frames get the same treatment, as do Derringer’s.


I would imagine many, if not most, of the people that “hate” on the LCP and such really don’t hate it, they just find pocket carrying a mouse gun an inadequate option…
therefore they see the intended purpose as inadequate, as in underpowered, not very accurate with slow follow up shots and they’re usually accompanied by very little training/practice as they are not generally enjoyable to shoot in higher volume.

I own a LCP, it’s nothing special at all. For the cost it’s what I would expect and if I hated it I wouldn’t have it. However I rarely carry it because as I look in my toolbox there are much better tools… like something other than a mouse gun in the pocket.

Then again, I could be totally off.

I’m a firm believer of “carry what you want” my life is the one in the line so why should I care what others think of my decisions?

 

[starling]

What's funny was... my DAO was quite reliable, I know because I shot it a lot to keep in practice. I also cracked the slide in half at the ejection port. Yes, AMT put a new slide on... and it went to the next gun show as trade fodder. That's when I started to carry the Colt Government .380...

The DAO AMTs were a little smoother than the Original. Some of the Single Action versions needed a good bit of work. Not older Accu-tek level (lots of work on those) but close. Stange that it broke at the ejection port. Thats typically not a weak area on a blowback slide (locked breech is a differnet story). The vulnerable area on a blowback is the front most often. Probably a casting flaw.

Original AMT back up SAO would have been sweet in 32acp but they only made 380 and 22lr. They should have offered them in 25 and 32 as well.

The DAO version has all kinds of caliber offerings. 380s were blowback but everything else was lock breech from my memory. The 40S&W and 45acp versions were pretty violent. Never shot a 38super or 9mm.

There wasnt a whole lot out there for pocket 380s back then. AMTs were pretty popular even with the quirks. My first FFL loved them and would tune them for people. Accuteks were even smaller but it was harder to make them work. Almost every part needed proper fitting. AMT and Accu-tek are kind of related. Design is different but same materials.

 

[trackskippy]

Hopefully, everyone carrying a gun has both understanding of the ROE, and are well practiced and proficient with what they carry, to deal with whatever it is they might get. Both ARE your responsibility too, by the way.

One thing that scares me as much as the bad guys who might be the threat, are all those people out there carrying guns, who more likely than not, couldnt pass a basic police qualification course with what they carry, and they might actually start shooting.

 

[starling]

I could be wrong but I think the intended purpose is where most of the “hate” is targeted, more so than the tool. J-frames get the same treatment, as do Derringer’s.


I would imagine many, if not most, of the people that “hate” on the LCP and such really don’t hate it, they just find pocket carrying a mouse gun an inadequate option…
therefore they see the intended purpose as inadequate, as in underpowered, not very accurate with slow follow up shots and they’re usually accompanied by very little training/practice as they are not generally enjoyable to shoot in higher volume.

I own a LCP, it’s nothing special at all. For the cost it’s what I would expect and if I hated it I wouldn’t have it. However I rarely carry it because as I look in my toolbox there are much better tools… like something other than a mouse gun in the pocket.

Then again, I could be totally off.

I’m a firm believer of “carry what you want” my life is the one in the line so why should I care what others think of my decisions?

My problem with derringers are... for whatever reason I can just not get use to the triggers. I have a few of the smaller ones but have to really concentrate to pull the trigger correctly.

LCPs are not horrible pistols they just dont click the boxes for me. I do like the diamondbacks though and those dont click all the boxes either. I think Its the small American manufacturer aspect that draws me to those.

I wish someone would offer a true lightweight pocket blowback 32/380. The cost would be very low and you would get the simpicity, durability and reliability of simple blowbacks. Something like a Baby Sigma SW380 with a steel slide and barrel housing. Those were well designed they just fell short on the materials (Zamak). Of course I would want true DAO because almost ALL pocket guns should be DAO in my opinion. Maybe something like an Intratec CAT9 (Nehemiah Sirkis design) scaled down for 380acp.

 

[Speedo66]

I carried full sized guns for many years, not going to do that now in my geezerhood. Also, friends and family are gun adverse, I'd prefer not to make anyone uncomfortable.

Won't say I practice a lot with my first gen LCP, but do shoot a few rounds when I go to the range for familiarization purposes. I can hit center mass well enough at reasonable self defense range. It's snappy and the sights are almost nonexistent, but if I need to fire it in anger I'll probably not notice either.

In my case it's either pocket carry the LCP or not carry at all. I prefer to carry.

 

[starling]

Hopefully, everyone carrying a gun has both understanding of the ROE, and are well practiced and proficient with what they carry, to deal with whatever it is they might get. Both ARE your responsibility too, by the way.

One thing that scares me as much as the bad guys who might be the threat, are all those people out there carrying guns, who more likely than not, couldnt pass a basic police qualification course with what they carry, and they might actually start shooting.

Yup.. me too. When I meet those types I tell them to not carry a round in the chamber. There are people out there who buy pocket autos..chamber a round.. and just toss it in the pocket or purse. They dont understand the safety systems in these pistols. Trigger and FP block safeties are not dummy or sloppy pistol handling proof. Its a big reason I also recommend manual safeties on pistols to people. Your average person is just not going to spend much time training and shooting and NOBODY likes Negligent discharges.

 

[Charlie98]

One thing that scares me as much as the bad guys who might be the threat, are all those people out there carrying guns, who more likely than not, couldnt pass a basic police qualification course with what they carry, and they might actually start shooting.

Wut? I ran a magazine of ammo through my new pistol, and I've seen Dirty Harry and Point Break at least a dozen times each... that doesn't adequately qualify me?

 

[starling]

Wut? I ran a magazine of ammo through my new pistol, and I've seen Dirty Harry and Point Break at least a dozen times each... that doesn't adequately qualify me?

My favorite scenes are when nobody ever wears hearing protection in films (even when at the shooting range scenes) and then just have casual conversation like a gunshot was never fired. "Do you feel lucky punk?"....... Huh? What did you say? I cant hear anything!! WHAT ARE YOU SAYING!!!!

 

[Speedo66]

My favorite scenes are when nobody ever wears hearing protection in films (even when at the shooting range scenes) and then just have casual conversation like a gunshot was never fired. "Do you feel lucky punk?"....... Huh? What did you say? I cant hear anything!! WHAT ARE YOU SAYING!!!!

True, even indoors or in cars.

 

[GEM]

Not everyone dishes pocket guns: https://www.usacarry.com/pocket-gun/
J frames and pocket semis are carried quite a lot by the trained set when dress or NPE circumstance suggest. Training with them however is recommended as we know that they are not the easiest to shoot.

 

[jar]

Hopefully, everyone carrying a gun has both understanding of the ROE, and are well practiced and proficient with what they carry, to deal with whatever it is they might get. Both ARE your responsibility too, by the way.

One thing that scares me as much as the bad guys who might be the threat, are all those people out there carrying guns, who more likely than not, couldnt pass a basic police qualification course with what they carry, and they might actually start shooting.

Some how the understanding that rights come with responsibilities has gotten lost.

 

[starling]

Not everyone dishes pocket guns: https://www.usacarry.com/pocket-gun/
J frames and pocket semis are carried quite a lot by the trained set when dress or NPE circumstance suggest. Training with them however is recommended as we know that they are not the easiest to shoot.

True story, Lady (friend of the family) bought an LCP (against my recommendations of course) and wanted to tag along to the range to get familiar with it. Not a seasoned shooter but all the fear of needing a gun got to her. Anyway... I started with loading one round and letting her shoot. Then 2 rounds an so on. She was having a miserable time so I pulled a Raven 25 out of my range bad to try and help her relax. After a couple of magazines she was shooting well enough and asked to trade the LCP for my Raven.

Thats one incident. Its not the first time someone made an offer on one of my 25s.

Small guns with big bullets are expert pistols not starters. Biggest mistake Ruger made with the LCP is not offering smaller calibers. They made sales though and thats apparently all that matters. They finally did with the 22lr version but rimfire in a pocket pistol is a NoNo for self defense IMO. If they ever do the LCP22 in 25acp I will buy both the 22lr (cheap practice) and the 25acp (pocket carry). Its not too late BTW. Keltec still sells the P32 well and people love those pistols. No reason Ruger can do the LCP in 32. 32acp in a locked breach is pretty close to a blowback 25acp in terms of shooting comfort.

 

[starling]

Some how the understanding that rights come with responsibilities has gotten lost.

You aint kiddin. Everyone is always preaching rights but nobody talks about being responsible anymore. I am about as big of a gun enthusiest as you can get and get called an antigunner sometimes...even here. Everyone just needs to calm down and relax. When I was in the military (MP) it was safety on, no round in the chamber. We were all armed and had regular training. These days people say that is like not even having a loaded firearm.....really?

Im not going down this gunfighter road though. I hear gunfire the first thing I am doing is grabbing my kids and finding cover.

 

[jar]

You aint kiddin. Everyone is always preaching rights but nobody talks about being responsible anymore. I am about as big of a gun enthusiest as you can get and get called an antigunner sometimes...even here. Everyone just needs to calm down and relax. When I was in the military (MP) it was safety on, no round in the chamber. We were all armed and had regular training. These days people say that is like not even having a loaded firearm.....really?

Im not going down this gunfighter road though. I hear gunfire the first thing I am doing is grabbing my kids and finding cover.

I have several observations that often get negative reaction.

First, don't take the shot you think you can make.

And second, often the best and most important shot is the one you don't take.

Third, few people train to NOT pull the trigger.

 

[Blkhrt13]

There is this crazy perception that if you aren’t carrying a thousand dollar pistol with a 12-15 round capacity, modular optic system and a flashlight appendix carry you dont have a real gun and are bound die a horrible death. It’s odd. I get there has been some rare horrible situations that it might help. But most defendable situations are still inside 7 foot and involve only a few shots. I often carry a 442 with five rounds and one speed strip just in case. I don’t feel poorly armed. But I also work to avoid places where I’d prefer to have more. An LCP is on a list of things to buy. Just not soon. I’m trying to shoot what I own more. I have heard of plenty of people carrying the LCP. Every thing shy of a full rifle is a compromise. Just buy what you feel comfortable with and go where you feel safe. To heck with the mall ninjas who need to have a laser gun to check the mail.

 

[WheelGunMan]

I frequently carry my LCP as my primary and always as a BUG to my CSX or Shield+ or Micro 9 or whatever else I choose to carry. It's small, lightweight and I'm pretty accurate with it. Long ago, I stopped letting others opinions sway me.

 

[trackskippy]

I have several observations that often get negative reaction.

First, don't take the shot you think you can make.

And second, often the best and most important shot is the one you don't take.

Third, few people train to NOT pull the trigger.

Agreed, but you still need to try and be as close to the top of your game as possible, for those times that you do.

The last thing I want to do is get in any fight, let alone a gunfight, but I still try to keep up with things, so if Im unlucky and have to deal with it, at least Im still trying my best not to let things slide and fallen behind.

Toby Keith comes to mind too...."I aint as good as I once was, I got a few years on me now, ....."

 

[trackskippy]

There is this crazy perception that if you aren’t carrying a thousand dollar pistol with a 12-15 round capacity, modular optic system and a flashlight appendix carry you dont have a real gun and are bound die a horrible death. It’s odd. I get there has been some rare horrible situations that it might help. But most defendable situations are still inside 7 foot and involve only a few shots. I often carry a 442 with five rounds and one speed strip just in case. I don’t feel poorly armed. But I also work to avoid places where I’d prefer to have more. An LCP is on a list of things to buy. Just not soon. I’m trying to what I own more. I have heard io plenty of people carrying the LCP. Every thing shy of a full rifle is a compromise. Just buy what you feel comfortable with and go where you feel safe. To heck with the mall ninjas who need to have a laser gun to check the mail.

I carry a box stock Glock 17 with night sights, and a reload. I do carry AIWB, as its the most secure and fastest and easiest way Ive found so far, to carry a gun and get it going.

I also shoot all sorts of different stuff each week too, and one of those is a 642, and a couple of other "snubbies" a couple of times a month. While I still have a Seecamp, I gave up on that once I figured out my Glock 26 would work in the same types of holsters I was carrying the Seecamp in. I got rid of my LCP's, and a couple of others right around then too. I kept the Seecamp, mostly for sentimental reasons, and as I still believe, for that type of gun, its the one the others have to try and beat.

Even shooting them all the time, its blatantly obvious, the smaller guns, both in size and capacity, are limited in usefulness and effectiveness, compared to the larger, more appropriate full, and slightly smaller, compact sized guns. They are harder to shoot well with when "actively" shooting, and beyond a single opponent, or maybe a complicated situation, they run empty too fast.

We dont/wont (normally) get to pick the situation we get, the other guy does. We get to react. And we get exactly what we get, whatever it may be, and whether you're ready for it or not. Thats what you have to be ready for.

If you dont at least try and work some things out in practice, like drawing while you move, shooting while you move, multiple targets, etc, etc, and have a good base that will allow you to deal with things that Im willing to bet, most LCP carriers are not doing in regular practice (hell, its not just them either), you're going to be WAY behind the curve if and when something happens, no matter the distance.

You may not like to hear it, but that is part of your "responsibility" part of this equation too.

 

[starling]

Maybe its a fasion thing ... you are what you wear (carry in this case) type stuff. Maybe thats were the brand or platform style comes into play for some. I am not an "Operator" so for me carrying a firearm is like having a fire extinguisher. Break glass in case of emergency. I actually dont get a real thrill out of CCWing like some but when I am out with the kids I feel its the responsible thing to do. We also dont hang out in a lot of public places though because we like things quiet and low drama. If I was in a metro city environment I would most likely be thinking a bit different. Same goes for living out in rural areas with predators roaming around.

I dont think the vest pocket pistols will ever completely go away. People are just bombarded with craziness and stories right now so they are struggling for a sense of control over their own safety...I get it. My optimistic side hopes that all this new wave of gun ownership and CCW leads to true enthusiasm for firearms but I cant tell right now. Once things turn around it might be a flooded used market for people dumping their firearms. While that might be fun for me personally for a little while in the long run its a loser. Once Ammo is stable again everyone needs to get to shooting more and people learn to enjoy firearms.

No reason pocket guns cant be both. There is no rule I am aware of that pocket pistols cant be easy to carry and fun to shoot . One of my favorite plinkers are the simple Jennings J22. Takes a little work but they run like a sewing machine if you can get them dialed in. My son shoots it most of the time until 25acp gets back to sane levels. I have to be a little greedy with 25acp the last few years. Same for 32acp.

 

[Zendude]

It seems that the P365 has taken over the pocket gun role for many.

 

[trackskippy]

I think for a lot of people it is a fashion or status thing.

Look, its just a gun. Just something else you carry with you every day with all the other junk you carry with you.

If you're choosing it for fashion or status, and/or because its a PITA, you probably should reevaluate your priorities.

 

[starling]

It seems that the P365 has taken over the pocket gun role for many.

Gotta have some BIG pockets for that. They arent that small.

 

[starling]

I think for a lot of people it is a fashion or status thing.

Look, its just a gun. Just something else you carry with you every day with all the other junk you carry with you.

If you're choosing it for fashion or status, and/or because its a PITA, you probably should reevaluate your priorities.

Right. The gun is just a "thing". The mindset is the important thing. You dont want to be so casual your unsafe or sloppy. Nor do you want someone to be so tense they are paranoid or walk around like the Terminator. Gotta have some balance. Some of the mindsets I see and hear are kinda silly. People thinking they live in movie sometimes.