Ruger Security Six shoots like a shotgun

[Deaf Smith]

Well at least this one does. Picked up a 2 3/4 inch stainless SS for $380. It's a 157 so made around '82.

Took it out to shoot. At 7 yards with JSP .357 Magnums it shot way way left, like 3 inches at 7 yards.

With Cor-Bon LSWHP .38s it shot on but the group was about 5 inches!

FMJ Remington 130s also shoot a tight group but at least 5 inches left!

Now I'm not a bad shot. My 2 1/2 686 goes in one ragged hole at 7 yards firing single action (as I did with the Ruger.)

Ok, I suspect the muzzle's crown, which does have some scratches, is off. Or the forcing cone is off.

Anyone else have any ideas what the problem is? Never seen an revolver shoot that bad and all my other Ruger Security Six guns have shot excellent groups right on the money.

I checked the chambers and found one chamber at the face of the cylinder is a bit tight for .38 lead slugs but most of them just let a Speer .38 swagged lead bullet go in tight.

Now I have a muzzle crown tool and I smoothed out the crown (good old Brownels tool!) and a Brownels 9 degree forcing cone tool. Used them both.

Will find out tomorrow at the range with LSWC and JHP .38 reloads but any ideas are welcome as I can always try something else!

Thanks,

Deaf

 

[tekarra]

I had one just like yours, but it shot just fine. As it consistently shoots to the left, maybe the frame/barrel is tweaked a bit.

 

[9mmepiphany]

How is the crane to frame fit...could the cylinder have been flicked opened and closed?

 

[Deaf Smith]

Almost no crane shake at all. No end shake either. Just a very tiny cylinder shake and only on a few chambers.

But, I got my Service and Speed six wheelguns out and looked at the crowns. The one on the Security Six had a ledge and then the crown below it. The Service Six and my Speed Six did not.

So I re-crowned the Security Six and changed the forcing cone angle to 18 degrees. Will see what happens tomorrow.

I will also later firelap the one or so chambers that seem a bit tight at the cylinder mouths. My other two Rugers all allow the lead bullet to fit in snug.

Oh, and I also noticed a few of those Cor-Bon LSWHPs seemed to keyhole just a bit. And that is part of my suspicion the crown is not right.

Deaf

 

[Owen Sparks]

Mine stacks bullets.
It sounds like maybe your cylinder is bored slightly out of line. Try firing strings of shots from the same chamber and see what happens. I have known revolvers with one or two misaligned chambers that caused flyers.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Try firing strings of shots from the same chamber and see what happens.

I've done that and the results are often very surprising. If you think of the number of things that have to line up to make an accurate revolver...especially in the days before CNC machining...it is a pretty amazing accomplishment

 

[Deaf Smith]

No joy.

It shots slugs all over the paper. There was no rhyme or reason. One shot seveal inches high, one way left, next keyholes near bottom then another left, etc...

Now I brought my 686 2 1/2 revolver. Same range, same ammo, six shots in one ragged hole.

Now here is my next test I'll do during the week. I have a Service Six Ruger that shoots right on the money with fixed sights. I'll see if I can swap cylinders, cranes, and trigger groups and fire it (Rugers are not so hand fitted as S&Ws and it does work many a time.)

If it shoots good groups with the handloads then I know it will be that right chamber faces on the Security Six's cylinder. Then I'll work on the problem from there.

Deaf

 

[9mmepiphany]

It might just be easier to have Ruger fix it

 

[Yukonstorm]

Have someone else fire the gun, see what happens. If the same thing occurs with other shooters contact Ruger, or get it to a good gunsmith.

 

[murf]

suggestion, see if the rear sight is loose.

murf

 

[Deaf Smith]

It might just be easier to have Ruger fix it

Easier yes, cheaper no.

The rear sight is fine and tight.

In fact the action is, while not zero-zero, it's decently solid when you cock the hammer.

Like I said, I fired my 686 with same ammo, same ranger and got a very satisfying group.

Deaf

 

[GooseGestapo]

1. I'd check the cylinder alignment with a range rod. May have one or more charge holes (chambers) mis-aligned with barrel when in locked condition.
2. Check individual chambers. I had to send a S&W Mod14 (6"heavybbl) back to S&W (sent it to a contact w/performance ctr) and they recylindered it under warranty. One chamber had radial reamer cuts in throat and would cause perhaps one out of 4 rds through that chamber to make flyers.
3. Check alignment of yoke as other stated to make sure the cylinder is in axial alignmemt.
4. Check for excessive end-shake (foward and rear). If it's had a lot of magnum rounds, especially hot handloads through it, it my have excessive play even though it locks up tightly.
5. Slug the bore and check diameter. My Sec.6 has a very tight bore. It much prefers jacketed rounds over cast. (opposite of my S&W match guns, though honestly, most have never "seen" a jacketed round, much less "digested" one.
Lastly, it just may be like my Ruger Sec.6 (and most other Ruger firearms I've owned), It just isn't a "target" gun. My Sec.6 will shoot ~3" at 25yds or about like a Glock wtih most loads. A few will do better, but not much.. But, it's a tough as nails, no frills "working" gun that has taken deer, pigs, and ridden many miles on boat/hunting duty and keeps on ticking....

Most of the time a revolver that shoots to the left, it's an operator issue (too much finger). My Sec.6 had an atrocious trigger when I first got it. After doing a trigger job on it (polished contact points, reduced tension on trigger rebound spring and slightly reduced hammer spring tension, Trigger approaches that of my S&W match guns. But, heavier intentionally.
But, too, different bullet weights and velocities generate different radial torque levels which, especially with a 2.75" bbl can cause significant differences in impact between loads such as 110gr jacketed .38's vs. a "hot" 180gr .357mag. Greater mass and bore contact area drammatically increases barrel torque and causes the heavier bullet to shoot higher and to rightor left (depends on direction of twist) of lighter bullet.

 

[Deaf Smith]

1. I'd check the cylinder alignment with a range rod. May have one or more charge holes (chambers) mis-aligned with barrel when in locked condition.

ALL rounds are fliers... All six shoot everywhere but where the sights shoot.

2. Check individual chambers. I had to send a S&W Mod14 (6"heavybbl) back to S&W (sent it to a contact w/performance ctr) and they recylindered it under warranty. One chamber had radial reamer cuts in throat and would cause perhaps one out of 4 rds through that chamber to make flyers.

Again every shot seems random. All over the paper. Some keyhole, some not. Seems to shoot a bit better with JHPs but still way off and in different directions.

3. Check alignment of yoke as other stated to make sure the cylinder is in axial alignmemt.

May check that next.

4. Check for excessive end-shake (foward and rear). If it's had a lot of magnum rounds, especially hot handloads through it, it my have excessive play even though it locks up tightly.

No endshake, crane shake, cylinder shake. Actually it's a nice gun that is fairly tight. Not much of a cylinder gap either

5. Slug the bore and check diameter. My Sec.6 has a very tight bore. It much prefers jacketed rounds over cast. (opposite of my S&W match guns, though honestly, most have never "seen" a jacketed round, much less "digested" one.

That will also come later if what I try fails to help.

Lastly, it just may be like my Ruger Sec.6 (and most other Ruger firearms I've owned), It just isn't a "target" gun. My Sec.6 will shoot ~3" at 25yds or about like a Glock wtih most loads. A few will do better, but not much.. But, it's a tough as nails, no frills "working" gun that has taken deer, pigs, and ridden many miles on boat/hunting duty and keeps on ticking....

Most of the time a revolver that shoots to the left, it's an operator issue (too much finger). My Sec.6 had an atrocious trigger when I first got it. After doing a trigger job on it (polished contact points, reduced tension on trigger rebound spring and slightly reduced hammer spring tension, Trigger approaches that of my S&W match guns. But, heavier intentionally.
But, too, different bullet weights and velocities generate different radial torque levels which, especially with a 2.75" bbl can cause significant differences in impact between loads such as 110gr jacketed .38's vs. a "hot" 180gr .357mag. Greater mass and bore contact area drammatically increases barrel torque and causes the heavier bullet to shoot higher and to rightor left (depends on direction of twist) of lighter bullet.

I've got several S&Ws and Rugers, including Security Six, Speed Six, Service Six, and GP-100. Never ever encountered a revolver that a 7 yards can barely keep inside a 8 inch pie plate.


I'll try a few of those suggestions in the weeks ahead.

Deaf

 

[Remllez]

May sound elementary to you but, is the barrel leaded up? A very good cleaning might help you out. One other thing I would check for is a bulge in the barrel along it's length.

 

[Deaf Smith]

May sound elementary to you but, is the barrel leaded up? A very good cleaning might help you out. One other thing I would check for is a bulge in the barrel along it's length.

Rem,

First thing I did was light up the barrel and check for leading and bulges. Nice clean barrel! Only the crown was suspect.

I have some 125gr slugs and I'll handload to see what does this week, but slugging the barrel is number one, then miking each chamber mouth. Then swap cylinders and see if the problem remains.

I do know from 30 years of programming computers that there HAS to be an answer! Just got to look long and deep enough to find the problem.

Deaf

 

[9mmepiphany]

Since you're going to load up anyway, why not run up a batch of 158gr slugs to see how they shoot?

One of the things I do when trying to set a baseline for a new gun is go with the original design weight of bullet

 

[Deaf Smith]

Actually I did that 9mm.

Used my 686 snub as a base line and 158gr LSWC reloads (and 158gr JHP reloads.)

The 686 on the right was the baseline gun I used. Shot one ragged hole at 7 yards with those loads (and dead on to.)

Deaf

 

[Prosser]

My new Ruger single six has absurd throats, .226" for a .22". The barrel is on the small side of .223".

I'm looking into a new cylinder, hopefully between .221 and .224".

Wonder if your gun might have the same problem? That would explain the total lack of a pattern. As the bullets come out of the cylinder, into the forcing cone, they can be coming from 360 degrees, or in other words, any play from the .226" cylinder throat, meaning the only consistency in alignment is that it's going to be completely inconsistent, which sounds like your problem.

 

[GLOOB]

Try some jacketed bullets. If they shoot fine, that might indicate a stricture at the forcing cone.

Doh. I'm too tired, today. Sorry.

Have you put a rod down the bore to see if all the chambers are lining up with the forcing cone?

 

[easyg]

Just send it back to Ruger.
They have excellent customer service.

 

[Deaf Smith]

This weekend I will swap cylinders with my Service Six and see what happens. That and slug the barrel to see if it is under/over sized.

Deaf

 

[Prosser]

Deaf:
I've currently got an email into Ruger. I'm real interested to find out if they will replace my cylinder, or, if I have to buy a custom cylinder.

I'm lucky in that this guy has a CNC machine, and turns out tighter cylinders at good prices:

http://www.brcrifles.com/manufacture.htm

He says his throats are .224" . That's supposed to be a pretty big improvement.

Don't know if anything he does would help you, but it's worth a look.

P

 

[Deaf Smith]

Posser,

Thanks. After this weekends experiments if it is still no-go, then I'll look into it.

Deaf

 

[Prosser]

I'll be interested to see what you find.

I also emailed Freedom Arms about their two cylinders for the 252. I sold one, since the ammo I have in bulk and the match cylinder didn't agree, plus, I made 50% on the sale.

That said, it shoots 3/8" at 50 yards for it's new owner, with the right ammo. I know the chambers were super tight. I wonder what the throats and barrel are at?

P

 

[Deaf Smith]

Bingo.

After a very through cleaning of the barrel (the Service Six cylinder would not fit in the Security Six) I found what looks like a ring or something about 3/4 an inch down the barrel.

The barrel is not bulged but some kind of ring or such is there.

I will whip up some firelap bullets that will lap the barrel and maybe smooth out whatever it is. Then try again.

Deaf