Ruger's New .45LC/.45ACP Redhawk...

[Mr.Revolverguy]

By the way I have had no ill effects with 45acp, 45LC or 454 after this conversion and I have shot it a lot since the review.

Alot of folks have asked me about misfiring, I have had no such issue and would trust me and my families life to this revolver.

 

[WC145]

And of course, I imagine there would be a significant gap between the case mouth and the chamber throat, much more than there would be when using a .38 in a .357 chamber. Not sure if I like that idea.

I just wish there were more .45ACP revolvers in general. The cartridge is very efficient, giving good velocity even in short revolver barrels, well balanced in terms of recoil to performance, has wide availability almost everywhere in the states, including availability of inexpensive target ammo, and provides decent terminal performance with said cheap target ammo due to the bullet diameter. Plus, the ability to use moon clips to reload is an advantage over traditional rimmed revolver rounds and HKS style speedloaders, in my opinion, as is the fact that the short auto round allows for a shorter revolver frame.

Too bad the world is so obsessed with autos nowadays. There's just not much incentive for manufacturers to progress revolver designs.

S&W continues to introduce new revolvers geared towards both personal protection and competition. In addition they've made a number of different Performance Center .45ACP revolvers with shortened cylinders, eliminating that unnecessary jump from case mouth to forcing cone and adding length to the rear of the barrel.

I borrowed this pic from a thread on the S&W forum, it is a 625-10 and you can clearly see the shorter cylinder.

 

[DPris]

What Smith & Wesson does is largely irrelevant to this Ruger.
There's not enough market for Ruger to make a dedicated .45 ACP-only Redhawk.
Denis

 

[WC145]

What Smith & Wesson does is largely irrelevant to this Ruger.
There's not enough market for Ruger to make a dedicated .45 ACP-only Redhawk.
Denis

I understand that what S&W does has nothing to do with the new Ruger. However, as you can see, I was responding to the OP's later post about cylinders, .45ACP revolvers, and revolvers in general. Nobody said anything about a .45ACP only Redhawk.

 

[DPris]

And there you go.
Denis

 

[goon]

I'd like to see Ruger making a 5 shot GP-100 in .44 Magnum if they can make it fit the frame, or .41 Magnum if that's as big as they can go. I like the S&W M69 (5 shot .44 Magnum) for size, but I don't like that it's a ugly-hole-in-the-frame-safety-that-can-fail S&W. If Ruger improved on that idea, I'm sure they could get it right and make a very packable gun.

But... the Blackhawk 45 ACP / 45 Colt convertibles don't have a horrible reputation for accuracy from what I've read. I personally haven't felt the need for one (and I tend to prefer DA revolvers), but I can see how being able to use cheaper .45 ACP and premium .45 ACP defensive loads might make a .45 Colt revolver more useful to some, especially those who don't reload.

The new Redhawk does look very nice. When I saw it, I definitely liked it.
But... I am going to wait and see how they work out with reliably extracting .45 Colt. Like I said, tiny rim on that round to begin with, then they cut some of the extractor away to make it work with moon clips.
So I'll wait for now.

 

[StrawHat]

...But... the Blackhawk 45 ACP / 45 Colt convertibles don't have a horrible reputation for accuracy from what I've read...

The Blackhawk is apples and oranges compared to the Redhawk. Two different cylinders means the bullet jump to the throat of the chamber is perfect for either the 45 ACP or 45 long Colt. In the Redhawk, the one cylinder accepts both the long and short cartridge causing a different jump for the shorter cartridge.

Kevin

 

[eldon519]

Strawhat nailed it.

In a Blackhawk with a dedicated .45ACP cylinder, you have one longish-but-well-supported jump from the case to the forcing cone via the throat which ought to be size about the same size as the bullet. In fact it may even swage down the bullet. There really isn't any potential to tip.

In something like a Redhawk cut for .45 Colt or .454 but shooting moonclipped .45ACP, you have a jump from the case to the throat which is an oversized portion (.480+) that doesn't support the bullet and allows for tipping. Once it hits the throat, you have a shortish, supported jump of the (possibly misaligned) bullet through the throat to the forcing cone. It's really not much different than shooting .38 Special or .44 Special in a .357 or .44 mag respectively, except that the unsupported jump there is around .125" vs almost .4" in the .45acp/.45 Colt situation.

 

[Gary A]

The Blackhawk is apples and oranges compared to the Redhawk. Two different cylinders means the bullet jump to the throat of the chamber is perfect for either the 45 ACP or 45 long Colt. In the Redhawk, the one cylinder accepts both the long and short cartridge causing a different jump for the shorter cartridge.

Could you expound upon that? I'm not seeing the difference. Are you saying the different positions of the the little ledge inside the chamber for the cartridges to headspace on makes the difference by being in diffrent locations? The two cylinders for the Blackhawk are the same length so the distance the .45 acp has to travel before reaching the forcing cone is the same regardless of the cylinder. How is that different than the Redhawk? The only difference between the Redhawk and Blackhawk I see is how the .45 acp headspaces.

I've read that this "freebore" in the .45 acp cylinder may decrease accuracy a bit but increase velocity fairly substantially. Don't know for sure.

 

[DPris]

Have not been able to fire it yet, but just inserted 6 mixed brand fired/un-sized .45 Colt brass & it ejects just fine.

Not full-length extraction, so you do have to punch 'em out, but works fine.

I don't anticipate any problems there.
Denis

 

[Gary A]

eldon519, thanks for clarifying what StrawHat was saying.

 

[eldon519]

No problem Gary. While it can be a real phenomenon, I doubt many shooters are good enough to see any problems from it.

 

[goon]

Ah... yeah, I forgot about the headspacing on the case mouth in the Blackhawk cylinder. Shouldn't have, but I did. Obviously there wouldn't be freebore with that.

I'm watching though. The round grip and sort of retro styling with that big frame revolver looks all kinds of cool, and the utility is there... if it extracts without any issues. Looks like a great concept if Ruger has it working right.

 

[DPris]

This one extracts just fine.
Denis

 

[Gary A]

I doubt many shooters are good enough to see any problems from it.

Now you're talking...about me, in fact!

 

[DPris]

Note from Ruger this morning says both calibers shot well from the beginning, function was not an issue.
No great obstacles had to be overcome & this model was developed very quickly.
Denis

 

[eldon519]

It makes a lot of sense for somebody that wants the occasional power afforded by .45 Colt +P, but the ubiquity and cost-efficiency of .45 ACP for fun, practice, and maybe even SD.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Could you expound upon that? I'm not seeing the difference. Are you saying the different positions of the the little ledge inside the chamber for the cartridges to headspace on makes the difference by being in diffrent locations?

The ledge is there to headspace the cartridge. The .45 ACP headspaces on the case mouth. In a dedicated .45 ACP cylinder, the throat is a bit forward of that point and once the bullet goes through the throat, it is supported for the rest of its trip through the chamber.

In the Redhawk, there cannot be a ledge, because the .45 Colt round would encounter it and refuse to chamber. Instead, you have a standard .45 Colt chamber and the .45 ACP is headspaced by the moon clip. The throat, therefore is well forward of the case mouth.

 

[DPris]

Minor note of interest- discovered this one here has a roll pin in the rear sight base, instead of the usual solid pin that tends to wander.

Trying to get clarification on whether that'll be ongoing in the Reds & if it'll spread through the other adjustable-sighted revolvers.

Nice change, if so.
Denis

 

[gearhead]

Mine arrived a couple of days ago, I haven't had the opportunity to get to the range with it yet. I like the feel, the reach is surprisingly small for such a large revolver so it's a good fit with my rather small hands. I'll write a range report once I get to go.

I think Ruger's strategy is to use the opportunity provided by the current market to reintroduce some guns and calibers that had been discontinued during the bubble to focus on higher volume production, and to bring to market some new products that are somewhat speculative from a sales standpoint but that are relatively easy to develop and produce from existing tooling. If so, kudos to their Marketing and Engineering groups but that means you'd better grab the products you find interesting or useful now because it might be a really long time before they are run again.

 

[gotboostvr]

For what it's worth, 45ACP exhibits no quirks in the MUCH longer chamber of my SW Governor. Which is .410, 45LC and 45ACP

 

[Gary A]

Vern Humphrey - thanks for that. I understood about the ledge and head spacing but not what you explained about the cylinder itself being throated in a dedicated .45 acp cylinder. Very helpful and informative, thanks. Makes sense.

 

[DPris]

Confirmation from Ruger rep this morning- the roll pin will be standard on DA models with adjustable rear sights, but apparently not on the SA models.
Denis

 

[usfan]

I got one last week. I've taken it to the range a couple of times, & fired a lot of different rounds through it. The first time i fired some CAS 45 colt loads, & a few moon clips of 45acp. Everything was fine.. just the maiden voyage. The next time, i had lubed it up, & shot more 45 acp through it, to compare with my s&w 625. I had a few light strikes, & was worried that i got a lemon. I did a search about the light strike problem with the redhawks, & it seems to be an issue.

I think the main problem with mine was the pin holding the trigger spring under the grip. I had put on some pachmayrs, & evidently the pin had slipped out. I pushed it back in, & applied a bit of white lithium grease on the pivot points. I cleaned out the firing pin, & took it out again today. No FTF's or light strikes AT ALL. I worked the trigger a bunch of times yesterday, & it probably helped smooth things out a bit.

I brought a taurus judge i had modified to take 45acp moon clips, & the smith 625, to compare distance & accuracy. I also loaded up some hotter test loads with 4227, 250 & 300 grain bullets. They were pretty mild, so i loaded up some more this afternoon, & will try them out next range trip.

The redhawk is not broken in, yet, so it is unfair to compare it to the smith, which i have put hundreds through. It is still the most accurate, but i'm sure the redhawk will improve with age & use. I was able to try out some 100+ yd shots, & the redhawk was comparable to the taurus, but not the smith. Of course, the smith will not shoot hot 45 colt loads.

My loads were pretty mild, for starters, & i've upped the powder a bit to get more power. The 300 grain has a nice kick to it, but not as much as a full 44 magnum. The next loads might get a bit closer.

I have an older redhawk in 44 magnum. It has been shot a lot, & is pretty loose.

No problems at all, going from 45 colt to 45 acp. Naturally, the smith moonclips won't work in the ruger, or vice versa. How hard would that be, to standardize on something like that? The ruger clips are pretty nice. They have a split spring clip grip, & can be unloaded by hand, while the smith ones need a tool. I got some aftermarket nylon ones, that work great in the smith, but need to be cut down to work in the ruger. I did one, to try it out, but it makes the hold weaker.. not a good solution.

Anyway, i haven't posted much here, but i'll try to keep up with this thread & update my impressions of the redhawk. I like it. The small wood grips did not work for me, so i put some pachmayr decelerators that i had on my other redhawk. Even though it was a square butt, it fit. Hopefully, hogue &/or pachmayr will make a tighter, round butt grip.

 

[ECVMatt]

I would really like to get one of these, please keep us updated. Thanks!

Matt