Rules for a Gunfight

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Two rules (assuming you cannot avoid the fight):

1. Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.

2. "Fairness" is way overrated: Do whatever is necessary to win.
 
This is clearly too much to remember. I want safety and security, not trying to memorize political origami.

I'll stick with a sharp blade. No rules. Just slice the idiot. I can remember that.
 
1 The best way to survive a gunfight is not to be there. Avoid trouble when you can.

2 Carry a handgun at all times, in case you MIGHT be unable to avoid a gun fight

3 If you KNOW you will be in a gunfight, carry a shotgun or rifle. Bring friends with shotguns and rifles as well, if at all possible.

4 When the situation calls for violence, don't hesitate. Be as violent and ruthless as possible. The only thing that matters is survival, "fair" is for Monopoly and checkers.

5 Afterwards, make no statements until you talk to a lawyer. Anything you have to say that will be exculpatory will still be just as effective in an hour, but anything you say NOW can be used against you.

(BTW- At times, I carry different calibers- .357, .45ACP, 9mm, .32ACP- each weapon has a use and has pluses and minuses.)
 
If you believe "first hit wins" with all your heart and mind and ever have to actually use your gun, you'll probably die.
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We probably don't disagree.

You are right that it's fatal to quit, and fatal to assume you are finished just because you took the first blow.

I see this 'rule' not as permission to quit, but as a consolidation of the combined importance of accuracy, speed, and power - and of the decisiveness necessary to put them to use.
 
"Don't point it at anything you don't want to destroy."

I would reword this. I don't want to destroy anybody, I only need to stop them from threatening me and my family. If you are before a jury, do you want them thinking you were carrying because you like destroying lives, or as a precaution against reasonably apprehended danger?
 
This is clearly too much to remember. I want safety and security, not trying to memorize political origami.

I'll stick with a sharp blade. No rules. Just slice the idiot. I can remember that.
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Rule #1 is Bring a GUN!
Better stated: Do not bring a knife to a Gun Fight!

All other decisions you make (2, 3, 4, etc) depend on your ability to interpret the threat level presented to you at the time. Hopefully, you will arrive at the solution that will SAVE YOUR BACON!


:evil:
 
Overall a pretty good list. I take issue with #2; 9mm has been around for a good long while now and I STILL haven't found anyone who wants to be shot with a 9mm hollow point. also, more rounds on target = more chances for a critical hit.
I disagree with #9 as well. I'm not a trained medical professional and there is no way I'm going to endanger myself by going near a BG who was just attacking me. I'll make sure he's disarmed and that EMS is on the way and let the professionals handle it.
 
Rule #1 of any fight: Be a fighter.


A fighter with no gun can win. A gunman with no fight is a doorstop.


Also, the starts with a 4 thing is just sloppy thinking. .308 Winchester starts with a 3. Gunfights are won all the time with all kinds of calibers. 40 S&W and 45 Auto are just as poor stoppers as most handgun cartridges. But they still work most of the time. Just like 32 Auto does.
 
I always thought shot placement was far more important than caliber. A shot to the heart or head from a 9mm is less deadly than a shot to the heart or head form a .45 in what way? Am I missing something here? :confused:
 
I am partially disabled.
Last month in Reno I was involved in a confrontation with a large
idiot who was trying to get into a fistfight with me.
I have a bad knee and can neither fight or run without risk of more injury.
This guy started pushing me and was about to punch when I pointed my Glock at him & made him go away.
The cops came, checked my permit and sent us both on our way.
I am glad that I didn't shoot the big jerk and glad I have a non resident permit.
Do you think I should have shot him?
btw I had the will and mindset to use it if needed.
btw 2, the first rule is don't be there, second is have a rifle.
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Your own story proves that rule 3 is not wrong. You drew the weapon and by your own admission had the will and mindset to shoot. Had he not went away, you probably would have shot him. Again, just because he went away doesn't change your intent.

I assure you that I don't want to shoot someone, but if my gun comes out, it is coming out with the intent of being shot. Whether I have to shoot or not is really up to the criminal, not me.

As far as rule 1 goes, let's just amend it to "have a gun" and leave it at that. I would choose a rifle over anything (to include a shotgun in most cases), but it isn't always practicle to have a rifle on hand.

Rule 5.5 is ridiculous, to put a blunt point on it. If someone breaks into my house, I am not going to take the time to assess whether they have a deadly weapon before shooting. They are going to get, at most, a warning to get out and either they comply immediately or get shot. If it's on the streets or something, I am again not going to debate the deadliness of whatever weapon the person has at hand. For all I know getting into a fistfight is just going to cause horrifying blood contamination, leaving me with the HIV, or Hepatitis or something else. If you attack me with anything from fists to a howitzer, and I feel in danger of my life, you're going to get shot.
 
My rules, and the ones I told my wife:
1: If a person comes in the house and they aren't supposed to be there tell them you have gun and know how to use it.
2: When you are scared for your life Shoot 4 times center mass (after watching her shoot my 9mm I know after the second shot the POI climbs slightly)
3: If perp is still standing shoot again.
4: Repeat till person is no longer a threat.
5: Keep aim on him while reaching for a phone
6: call police
7: call me
8: be in tears (as if that would have to be instructed) when police arrive
9: Do not let cops take your gun


As for the selection of self defense weapon:
1: Use what you are comfortable with (a .22 to the head is more lethal than a .44 to the foot)
2: Use what is available (an ink pen in the thigh is better than a pistol that isn't there)
3: Don't shoot to wound
4: In my home Geneva Conventions do not apply!
 
This guy started pushing me and was about to punch when I pointed my Glock at him & made him go away.
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This is an ongoing debate on THR. Some people have a holy rule "never draw unless you are going to shoot and kill someone." However, this leaves no room for anything change in the situation- such as perp suddenly retreating.

Time and time again, real life experiences (not THR chatter) prove this concept of "never draw unless you are going to shoot and kill a perp", is flawed. :scrutiny:
 


buck00, re-read my Rule 3. There's a vast difference between "intent" and "going to shoot and kill." With "intent" you may have the option of merely brandishing if the do-bad retreats. In your scenario, it's draw and shoot, period.


​
 
rule 3 is wrong

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am partially disabled.
Last month in Reno I was involved in a confrontation with a large
idiot who was trying to get into a fistfight with me.
I have a bad knee and can neither fight or run without risk of more injury.
This guy started pushing me and was about to punch when I pointed my Glock at him & made him go away.
The cops came, checked my permit and sent us both on our way.
I am glad that I didn't shoot the big jerk and glad I have a non resident permit.
Do you think I should have shot him?
btw I had the will and mindset to use it if needed.
btw 2, the first rule is don't be there, second is have a rifle.
Click to expand...
I think you're largely correct. Saying that you must ALWAYS shoot if you draw plays into the hands of idiots who claim that you haven't actually defended yourself unless somebody ends up DEAD.

You've defended yourself just as effectively if the encounter ends with footfalls disappearing into the distance as with a gunshot. Your goal is to protect yourself, not to shoot somebody. That may require shooting somebody, but that's not the ultimate goal.
 
the .25 ACP you have with you is a
lot better than the .45ACP you left home.
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I disagree, if you shoot someone with a .25 acp, and the BG finds out about it, he'll probably be pissed, and then he'll kick your arse.
 
9: Do not let cops take your gun
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Good luck with this one; refusing to surrender a weapon to police is a good way to get yourself shot and it won't look good in court afterwards. Obviously don't surrender your weapon until you are safe, but at a bare minimum you'll have to give it up until the police know the situation, and most likely it will be used as evidence in court and you won't see it for a VERY long time (if at all). That's why some very wise individuals have said you shouldn't use a gun you value for CCW or defense, because it will very likely get ruined in the evidence locker.
 


So, GhostlyKarliion, you'd leave both the .45 and the .25 at home? Thanks, but no thanks. Remember, in the vast majority of cases, shots are never fired, it's the mere presentation of a handgun that solves the problem.


Amen, McPherson, amen.

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Yes, shot placement is key. On the other hand, when people are threading you in a dark ally, while trying to maneuver - it may be nigh imposable to get off a well placed shot. A larger/faster/more powerful round will be more effective if the shot is less than ideal. My feeling is that one should carry the largest arm they can comfortably conceal and the most powerful one can proficiently handle.
 
I am having a hard time understanding why rule 3 is such a sticking point. Nothing in how rule 3 is phrased indicates or suggests that you are absolutely obligated at any point to shoot someone.

As a matter of fact, pulling your firearm out during a SD situation at all is in and of itself an indicator of intent to shoot. Even if you specifically are not intending to pull the trigger, by brandishing a firearm in the hopes of protecting your life you are saying, quite literally "Leave me alone or I will kill you".

On a broader scale, there is nothing internet warrior or mall ninjaish at all about saying that if you pull your gun, you intend to shoot. I have zero desire to ever shoot another person. I have been in combat, and it sucks massively. I don't want to fight, I don't want to get hurt, I don't want to hurt anyone. That is a 100% true statement. Another 100% true statement is that if I run out of options, I will punch, slash, batter, mutilate, kick, stab, bite, headbutt, elbow, whack, shoot, club, lacerate and puncture a fellow human being to protect my own life. There is nothing wrong with thinking that way, and in fact, I would say that if you truly don't have it in you to fight and possibly kill to defend your own life, you have no business carrying a gun, and I mean that.
 
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