Run in at Wal-Mart

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It seems that if one is seen open carrying, the first assumption is that they're showing off. Sadly, there are often valid reasons for an OC. I prefer CC, but as I said, I was left with few options in this instance (nothing to conceal it with, and nowhere to securely store it in the truck).
 
As to open carry, these days it makes the sheep nervous - including managers. I would not do it in a store for that reason alone.
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Please explain in what way being armed for your defense is different than wearing a cross or yarmulka or a 2nd amendment t-shirt, or gathering in the park with your friends, or exercising any other of your rights, that you should have to hide it because it "makes the sheep nervous."
 
Why can't store managers just explain to customers who show concern that it is perfectly legal what they are doing (open carrying) and that they are just average joe citizen carrying about his business and no more of a threat to anyone than anyone else is.

And what if the gang-banger looking thugs with the baggy pants make me nervous? If I complain to the Wal-Mart manager is he going to ask them to change their dress or leave? I doubt it.
 
Wayne, I don't see the difference at all. But I'm willing to concede that legality doesn't equate to manners. IE: I can legally swear all I &$%#in' please, but that doesn't make it polite. It doesn't slow me down to avert my profanity, so make it a point to do so (while maintaining the right to drop the nicities as I see fit). Bottom line, while some of the more considerate folks we count amongst the number of the RKBA front may keep the iron out of sight, it should NOT be expected, demanded, or required. And it should be appreciated when we elect to exercise the consideration. If the open-carry flak gets heavy I just pose this question: "You didn't seem to mind my openly carrying a firearm in your defense on two combat tours overseas, and now you intend to make an issue of my carrying a weapon in MY OWN defense in my own country?"
 
Can you open carry while fishing?
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Yes.

SC Code of Laws, SECTION 16-23-20. Unlawful carrying of handgun; exceptions.

It is unlawful for anyone to carry about the person any handgun, whether concealed or not, except as follows, unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law:

(4) licensed hunters or fishermen who are engaged in hunting or fishing or going to or from their places of hunting or fishing while in a vehicle or on foot;
 
Here in Kansas, except for specific places listed in the carry law itself (mainly schools), the business has an obligation to post a specific sign of specific dimensions to alert those who carry that it does not want carry in that store. Without that sign you can carry legally within the law.
Having said that, I think I would bow to the wishes of the management if they were to ever notice me carrying and asked me not to do so in their store. It would do nothing but help relations between business and those who carry and I wouldn't make a scene over it simply because it woud draw attention of those looking for an excuse to make a headlline for the anti gunners. I consider it my responsibility when carrying, to ensure that my weapon is concealed and will not be noticed by anyone, friend or foe. We here in KS do not have an open carry provision, so I understand your circumstnaces are a little different, but in your situation, as long as I was legally able to do so, I think I'd have just tucked my pistol under cover and then returned to buy whatever without having it out in plain sight. Just my opinion.
SRT
SRT
 
Again, didn't have anything to conceal it with. Manager can gripe and play lawyer all he likes...I doubt he would have preferred that I leave it in the parking lot to get stolen. And I'm not one to make a scene, but I couldn't have if I wanted to. It was 0300 and I didn't see any other customers in the store throughout the ordeal. All the same, I asked to take the conversation into a side-room while we waited for Cheyenne PD to arrive to clear it all up.
 
"Please explain in what way being armed for your defense is different than wearing a cross or yarmulka or a 2nd amendment t-shirt, or gathering in the park with your friends, or exercising any other of your rights, that you should have to hide it because it "makes the sheep nervous.""

I would assume you are not actually being obtuse in wondering why people would be nervous at the actual sight of a pistol on the hip of someone who is not a cop. Beyond that, I have no answer because I mentioned what I would or would not do. In this case, I would not, nor do I currently, open carry in a store.

If you cannot understand that people are ignorant and trained to be fearful of firearms on the other hand, well, I can't help with that, either. But a man with a "Death from above" t-shirt is different than a man with a side-arm in this modern, frightened society. I do not say it is right, but I do observe the facts as they are and say how I react to them. I do not choose to carry open in cities. If you would like to, you have my support. Do not, however, act surprised when a manager approaches you or regular folks react in any negative way to your choice.

I often wear a kilt in public. I am not offended by the ignorant when I wear one.

Ash
 
I had a similar situation at the Wal-Mart in Lakewood WA. The greeter wasn’t sure so he sent me to the manager who insisted it was illegal and/or not allowed. The next morning I called the regional manager but ended up speaking to the regional head of security. He told me their policy was to follow state law. He checked and found that there is no law against open carry and so he said he would contact the manager at the Lakewood store and let him know the policy. I have carried my Sig 1911 in there at least a dozen times since without incident*. Try as I might, I could not get anything from them in writing on the issue.

*I did have one shopper inform me that my pistol had become exposed and I told him that I wasn’t carrying concealed. He told me it was against the law and I corrected him. I also added that we do not need a permit to carry a firearm unless we’re going to carry concealed. He was surprised and said it was just like Arizona, but concealed carry was illegal there. I guess he hadn’t been back there in a while. :rolleyes:
 
Ash, my point is this: Why is the onus on you, and not on the "nervous sheep?" Why is the 2nd amendment right the poor stepchild, to be ashamed of and hidden away, when the other rights are expected to be worn proudly and tolerated by others?

Would you think poorly of a Wal-Mart manager who asked you to hide a religious icon? Would you think the customer who did so was knuckling under?
 
To add some perspective to the discussion; Altitude said his original goal in going to the Wal-Mart was to get ammunition.

Did he accomplish his goal?

Nope

He also said that his intent was in, out get the bullets (maybe some nachos) and be gone in less than 10 minutes.

Did he meet his intent

Nope

What did he accomplish?
1.Argument W/ a manager
2. Got to wait a half hour or so for the cops to show up. That's always a fun thing to do at 3 AM .
3. Got to argue W/ a cop , never really a brilliant tactical move.
4. Got to make an extra trip to WM ,Gas is what, 3.50 a gallon now?
5. And finally got to reinforce the anti's negative stereotypes about gun owners.

All in all I'd say this was a stellar victory for the 2nd ammendment
NOT!

I'd have left as soon as the manager confronted me ( or kept it concealed ) & called HIS boss.
 
Wayne, I got kicked out of the fancy Beau Rivage casino on my wife's birthday because I was wearing a sgian dubh in my sock. This is a short knife worn with the kilt - we were in formal attire for my wife's birthday. I know, KNOW, what it is like to face that kind of idiocy. After all, who wears a kilt and commits murder?

My response is never, NEVER, to shadow their door again.

Ash
 
THR Policy: If someone asks a question regarding OC, at least 5 people must respond why not to do it, even though it is a 2A right and is completely legal in a lot of states.

OP: There was a recent thread in general discussions, the host was a walmart manager. You can search for that thread and ask him for advice on how to get this anti-manager what he deserves.
 
I also live here in cheyenne, you ABSOLUTELY need to call corporate walmart, from what I understand they will put the store manager in his place for going against walmart policy.
 
First off- I don't carry anymore. My hands don't always do what I want them to and I might end up blowing my own butt off. Beyond that, if the law does allow open carry, then why not do so? Sure, some soccer mom may get worried when she sees you but after you've left and there's no bloodbath on aisle 9 she just might get a small seed growing in the back of her beady little brain, one that'll grow into a lucid thought: Maybe guns aren't all evil! Maybe ordinary citizens can be trusted with them!

Most people here think CC is/was a huge victory. I'm not so sure. As I watch our country and government slide along on the downward spiral to... what? I wonder what will happen to those lists of CC holders when Big Brother finally takes the big step. Along with that though, we seem to have willingly adopted the idea of exercising our Second Amendment right in secret, as if it is something shameful. I know, everyone will jump up now and say how 'proud' they are to be able to CC but they still don't want to worry the soccer moms at Wal Mart. But those soccer moms don't pay your rent or put gas in your car so why worry about their feelings. Instead, why not dress properly, with no baggy camo pants or "Vote From the Rooftops" shirts and your gun carried in a proper holster? Who knows? By using this approach you might change one of those minds, whereas hiding in the shadows will only reinforce the sterotypical image of a gunowner.

Just a thought....
 
1.Argument W/ a manager
2. Got to wait a half hour or so for the cops to show up. That's always a fun thing to do at 3 AM .
3. Got to argue W/ a cop , never really a brilliant tactical move.
4. Got to make an extra trip to WM ,Gas is what, 3.50 a gallon now?
5. And finally got to reinforce the anti's negative stereotypes about gun owners.
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1. The manager is more informed and will not bother the police again now that he knows what the law REALLY is. And I DID leave when confronted, immediately after the PD cleared everything up. I'd been accused of a crime and I make it a point not to walk away while my good name is still in question.
2. I'm happy to wait a half-hour if ANYONE walks away from the experience smarter. I'm sorry to hear if you aren't willing to invest that time in your bill of rights.
3. I'll argue with any cop who is WRONG. Even LEO's have bounds. Call it stagnate American Tradition...but I just don't tolerate oppression and abuse of authority.
4. I don't buy ammo from Wal-Mart any more. Someone who walks your new weapon out for you? Even crack dealers let you use on premises.
5. Not sure how I reinforced any negative stereotype. The manager is likely more educated than he has been in recent years. Nobody will overcome a fear of firearms through a lack of exposure to the same...incidental though it may be.
 
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altitude_19 said:
1. The manager is more informed and will not bother the police again now that he knows what the law REALLY is. And I DID leave when confronted, immediately after the PD cleared everything up. I'd been accused of a crime and I make it a point not to walk away while my good name is still in question.
2. I'm happy to wait a half-hour if ANYONE walks away from the experience smarter. I'm sorry to hear if you aren't willing to invest that time in your bill of rights.
3. I'll argue with any cop who is WRONG. Even LEO's have bounds. Call it stagnate American Tradition...but I just don't tolerate oppression and abuse of authority.
4. I don't buy ammo from Wal-Mart any more. Someone who walks your new weapon out for you? Even crack dealers let you use on premises.
5. Not sure how I reinforced any negative stereotype. The manager is likely for educated than he has been in recent years. Nobody will overcome a fear of firearms through a lack of exposure to the same...incidental though it may be.
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Sir (Ma'am?):

This is very likely the most temperately phrased and well-reasoned rejoinder I have seen on THR so far. Thank you for writing it.
 
It's absolutely shocking how many people here on The High Road, would rather permanently lose their rights to the death of a thousand cuts, than bear the inconvenience of having someone question their lawful behavior.:banghead:

altitude_19, good on you for sticking to your guns!:D

The people at my local Wal-Mart don't even blink when I walk in with a Ruger Blackhawk carried in a low slung Mexican double loop holster on a full cartridge belt, and I aim to keep it that way.
 
You don't even have to oppress someone in the U.S. to abridge their rights. You only need to inconvenience them, and they'll abridge their own rights for you.

Good golly.

altitude_19, again, nicely done.
 
Misterwhipple: It's ordinarily Sergeant, but Sir will do just fine. Many thanks! In fact, thanks to all on both sides. BY GOD, I do enjoy a good American debate. It warms my heart to know my friends haven't died in vain.

RIP A1C Eric Barnes
 
In my humble opinion, open carrying is just asking for undue attention from citizens, employees, and perhaps law enforcement (if they get called by citizens or employees). If you are willing to deal with that attention, then more power to you! I choose not to, but that is (of course) just my choice!

Fact is, guns scare many people in our society, and it doesn't fit with the "norms" of our culture these days!

We all know that... And we should all expect that this kind of things is going to happen if we do choose to open carry in a grocery store! Good or bad, it is reality.

Just because you have the right to do something, doesn't mean that doing it is something I would recommend. For example, you could be well within your legal rights to tattoo a swastica on your forehead, but it doesn't mean that you will be readily accepted in society! Likewise, if you stood in the middle of a Walmart store while exercising your 1st ammendment rights to tell everyone that you didn't support Walmart's "big business" tactics, they would probably be inclined to tell you to leave the property! Either of those examples are legal, and neither (on it's own) could get you arrested.

Also, around here stores have the right to ask someone to leave their property. If they tell you to, and you don't, it is trespassing. Obviously you could always file a complaint with their corporate office... But, if I show up at Walmart, and the staff tells me that they ask a person to leave, and that person refused, then it is my job to make them leave or arrest them. (not saying that this situation rose to that level... but just clarifying that a private business is often allowed to tell someone to leave).

So, if you like to open carry, more power to you. Just be prepared to get a bit of attention that you normally wouldn't, and be prepared to leave the property if you are told to by an employee or law enforcement officer (if the laws are the same in that part of the country).
 
The reason we carry a weapon is for self defense. I carry open on my farm (unless it's covered by my coat in the winter). But when I go to town, it's concealed. My main reason (other than the attention from soccer moms) is I do not want the bad guy to know I'm carrying, it's the element of surprise and raises the bar a little higher on my side. If the gentleman or gentlewoman of the criminal persuasion see's someone carrying a gun, I believe they will more likely take that person out first and without warning because he is the biggest threat. Getting a bullet in the back of the head kinda ends the arguement of if I'm right or wrong lawfully.
 
company policy or not, the reality is that they can still choose not to serve you as a customer for any reason, at any discretion. Even with a complaint about your actions that were well within the law, chances are that the reviewer of said complaint will agree with the manager and not bother giving it a second look.

That is why it is so much better to CCW than it is openly. Even if you have the right to do it, people will still have reasonable right to mess with you, give you looks, call the police to lecture and bother you, etc. etc.

I had my uncle get hassled for it by a cop. The cop thought it was stupid for him to open-carry, and lectured him about appearance, blah blah blah, and recommended him to get his CHP instead. At least his was somewhat polite, but the truth is most people (as in the ones who are easily threatened or scared) won't be.
 
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