Run in at Wal-Mart

[ZeSpectre]

Fact is, guns scare many people in our society, and it doesn't fit with the "norms" of our culture these days!

Fact is there are a lot of things that scare "people" including tattoos, biker leather, being black, piercings, wearing a turban, speaking another language...the list goes on and on.

Should we all learn to be more discerning about what actually constitutes a threat or just all fall into someone's narrow definition of "normal" so as to avoid all conflict?

Now personally I prefer CCW, but it's mostly because if someone ever (God Forbid!) assaults me I want them to have a very nasty surprise coming their way but I see nothing wrong with wanting to establish open carry as a normal activity.

 

[Deanimator]

Fact is there are a lot of things that scare "people" including tattoos, biker leather, being black, piercings, wearing a turban, speaking another language...the list goes on and on.

Americans shouldn't cater to the prejudices of the ignorant and the malicious. We should be poking holes in them every chance we get.

No bully EVER stopped being a bully because he got his way.

 

[Ash]

It is legal to run into an ethnic neighborhood and utter racial epithets. I wouldn't recommend it.

Using open carry for political reasons my convince folks that it is an okay thing to do. It may also have open carry banned. Am I afraid of Walmart folks? Not in the least. However, I am also smart enough to avoid needless confrontation. Open carry in a place where you know you will be confronted will make few friends.

But hey, do it. Fine by me. I open carry where it matters, not at the local Wally World (where, should SHTF, you CAN actually arm yourself in the store).

Ash

 

[BB62]

A site you should become familiar with is www.opencarry.org - especially the forums.

 

[coloradokevin]

I will add this as well on the Open Carry issue:

The laws in my state are convoluted and complicated on that one matter. If you want to concealed carry in your car, anywhere in the state, you can do so without a permit, etc.

But, if you want to open carry, you are forced into the realm of local municipal ordinances.

All of this stems from a "home rule" type provision in the state constitution, which (to the best of my understanding) essentially gives each jurisdiction the right to make any laws concerning matters of "local concern".

As such, weapons issues have had several heated court cases in recent years, and the results of these cases have come down with some issues being considered a matter of "state" concern, while others have been considered "local" concerns. These court battles came out of disputes between the state and various municipalities concerning what was a local v. state concern!

So, to further complicate the matter, concealed carry is a matter of state concern, and the municipal laws prohibiting it have been overturned. However, to some degree, the laws on Open Carry have been designated as a matter of local concern... thus leaving the open-carrying citizen facing a slew of different laws. A similar ruling occured on the so-called "assault weapons" statutes. (if memory serves, this decision stemmed from the 2004 rulling by Judge Meyers, with Denver's District Court... but I'm not positive on that)

These things are constantly evolving too, as court rulings are made... So, I'm sad to say that even a lot of LE agencies aren't always up-to-date on the legal decision of the day (as determined by law, court, appeals court, constitution, and state-vs-local arguments). Sometimes local statutes are on the books one way, but court rulings have said otherwise, and state statutes contridict both the local ordinance and court ruling...

With a system like that, who could know what is allowed and what isn't?!

In my opinion, we have a silly system in place in this state right now (minus the concealed carry -- which is now handled on the state level), and I'd love to see more people who are willing to 'test' the rulings in court!

To me: firearms are a matter of state (well, even national) concern, and I think the entire ruling in my state should have put the power back at the state level. The law right now leaves too much grey area, and confuses a lot of folks!

 

[JesseL]

In my humble opinion, open carrying is just asking for undue attention from citizens, employees, and perhaps law enforcement (if they get called by citizens or employees). If you are willing to deal with that attention, then more power to you! I choose not to, but that is (of course) just my choice!

I am perfectly willing to deal with that attention, if I ever get it. Almost 9 years of open carry experience now, without any attention beyond the occasional stranger asking "whadya need a gun fer?".

Even if you have the right to do it, people will still have reasonable right to mess with you, give you looks, call the police to lecture and bother you, etc. etc.

If that ever happens, I'll gladly exercise my right to either ignore or educate all of them.

At this point, I'm wondering if I should do a little open carry missionary work. Since open carry is virtually 100% acceptable here, maybe I should make some effort to raise awareness and respect for rights elsewhere. All these other places that have such dire consequences for legal OC sound like they could use it.

 

[stevereno1]

Wal Mart has no policy pertaining to it's customers carrying of firearms. The only policy that we have pertains to it's employees, or as we call them, Associates.

 

[Treo]

You Sure About That?

QUOTE: "1. The manager is more informed and will not bother the police again now that he knows what the law REALLY is"

There's really only one way to test that theory, knock your self out.

I don't see that you furthered the cause of open carry at all the cops knew you were legal already & one of them still chose to hand you a ration.

As for the manager you added to the stress of his work day probably caused him more paper work & pissed him off, people don't get "educated" when they're pissed they get pissed . how is that NOT reinforcing a negative stereotype?

Based on what I've read so far I'd guess that you pushed the issue in the first place. Who makes a special trip to WM at 3 AM just to pick up ammunition?

I think you were trying to prove a point.

If all that hassel was worth it to you just to be "right" have at it.

FYI while you were defending your rights to the manager and the cops, I parked right next to your truck , walked right by the rowdy kids and the greeter. picked up a gallon of milk, a 2 liter of Cherry Pepsi, 2 boxes of S&W .40 , some nachos & the latest issue of the national liar ( the one W/ the article about Hillary Clinton & Hannah Montana's lesbian love affair) And walked out in less than 10 the only difference is I was carrying concealed, well that and I got what I was after W/out any hassels.

 

[Cosmoline]

Why are you so willing to bankrupt the future? That store is pratically a branch of the chicoms.

 

[JesseL]

As for the manager you added to the stress of his work day probably caused him more paper work & pissed him off, people don't g]et "educated" when they're pissed they get pissed . how is that NOT reinforcing a negative stereotype?

The manager is the one who caused himself extra stress and paperwork, by making wrongful assumptions about state law and corporate policy. altitude_19 didn't do anything wrong. He has no control over what some misinformed manager is going to decide isn't right.

You clearly don't think open carry is a good idea, and that's your right. It doesn't make all these idiots justified in getting themselves worked up over behavior is peaceful, legal, and within the policies of the property owners. The manager was no more justified in his actions than if he had confronted and called the police about an african-american person in his store.

 

[Art Eatman]

This thread would possibly have a better chance of remaining open if folks would play "Let's pretend": Pretend your mother, your preacher and your employer are all reading your posts...

Art

 

[altitude_19]

Treo: I do enjoy you ferver and passion for a good discussion.

As for the manager you added to the stress of his work day probably caused him more paper work & pissed him off, people don't get "educated" when they're pissed they get pissed . how is that NOT reinforcing a negative stereotype?

He sure didn't seem stressed when he apologized for calling the cops in the first place and advised no such incident would be elevated to that level again.

Who makes a special trip to WM at 3 AM just to pick up ammunition?

Someone who was passing it on the way and needed to trim an errand off the next day's busy itinerary.

I think you were trying to prove a point.

I'll thank you not to presume to know my mind, Sir. Every assumption you've drawn has been refuted. I welcome any questions. Nobody welcomes pretention.

If all that hassel was worth it to you just to be "right"

Absolutely not...but that wasn't the objective. It is ABSOLUTELY WORTH IT to educate the manager, while perhaps prompting one LEO to reconsider his habit of handing out mocking advice, rather than citations. I've had too many men on the far side of this world make attempts on my life to stand for and LEO barking orders at me before I've committed a crime. I respect their positions and vested authority, so long as they respect my rights. This is America, and if the Commander in Chief can be impeached, no LEO is beyond reproach.

picked up a gallon of milk, a 2 liter of Cherry Pepsi, 2 boxes of S&W .40 , some nachos & the latest issue of the national liar

I sincerely doubt that...to my knowledge, WM doesn't sell PISTOL ammo past 2100. Forgive my smart-allec tendencies, I just find it's better to lace a fervent discussion with the occasional wise-crack to lighten the mood.

 

[misterwhipple]

Sergeant, if you are ever in Northern Virginia, I hope you will give us a heads up. I would very much like to shake your hand and buy you a drink.

 

[Hanzerik]

As one who used to do overnight stocking at said Walmart, I can say at 3AM the place is deserted at that time, and same pretty much goes for the whole city of Cheyenne. I'm surprised anyone even noticed, unless you went back to the sporting goods section where the managers sometimes help with stocking. And that rough bunch outside the store was more then likely employees on a smoke break. Not to talk trash about them, but some are on the shady side.

Personally I have never OCd in the Cheyenne Walmart, I have a CWP so I usually have a shirt tail covering it.

District Managers name is Tim Hammack, # 307-773-8674 (Not a FE Warren extension)

I take it you are a fellow USAF member like myself? (I'm a FM, maybe we know each other)

 

[Sage of Seattle]

Unless I am on the way from the range and stop to get a sandwich I prefer to CC, but I realize some prefer OC, and some just want to make a statement. If you are willing to take the flak and possibly be detained by uninformed police officers or security folks for OC then that is fine with me.

If you are willing to take the flak and possibly be detained by uninformed police officers or security folks for having your CC piece accidentally exposed, then that is fine with me too.

 

[ServiceSoon]

Is this what you are looking for?

 

[Sage of Seattle]

The reason we carry a weapon is for self defense. I carry open on my farm (unless it's covered by my coat in the winter). But when I go to town, it's concealed. My main reason (other than the attention from soccer moms) is I do not want the bad guy to know I'm carrying, it's the element of surprise and raises the bar a little higher on my side. If the gentleman or gentlewoman of the criminal persuasion see's someone carrying a gun, I believe they will more likely take that person out first and without warning because he is the biggest threat. Getting a bullet in the back of the head kinda ends the arguement of if I'm right or wrong lawfully.

I respect your decision to carry however you wish -- as long as you keep on carryin'!

Here's how I look at the issues you raised: there is x percentage that I will get mugged walking down the street appearing unarmed.

There is x+y percentage (with y being greater than one) that I will get mugged as I walk down the street appearing unarmed and disabled.

I have an x-g percentage (with g being greater than one) of getting mugged as I appear armed and disabled, seeing as how I'm a far higher threat than an unarmed individual.

Now, there's also a z percentage that a bad guy will take me out first seeing that I'm armed. With z being less than x in my opinion. This is how I see the odds, and how I'm willing to play them.

Besides, isn't the greatest victory in battle the battle never fought?

I would much rather take the risk of getting taken out first because my weapon is visible, than the much much higher risk of being jumped, mugged, attacked while I CANNOT RUN AWAY OR DODGE OR FIGHT HAND TO HAND because I appear to be unarmed!

I guess most of you posters are young or physically fit or have some other relative advantage. I do not, and many people do not, have that LUXURY of running away. Some do not have the luxury of tucking away their firearm, far from the frightened eyes of soccermoms everywhere. Some do not have the luxury of appearing unarmed, and therefore, weak and easy prey.

For all of those who question the right of any of us to open carry, what are you so afraid of?

 

[LAK Supply]

Altitude-

I find it interesting that some here would question the basis of your decision to open carry. The fact of the matter is that IT'S NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS WHY YOU WANT TO CARRY. Don't feel obligated to defend yourself to them.... this is the same attitude that has helped progress the gun laws to what they are today.

Open Carry is a protected right in Wyoming; you happened to run into a manager who was uninformed and let his fear or discomfort drive his decision. People like this are one of the problems in society; their tendency to freak out and take illogical action when they see a firearm in public is the reason many people don't carry openly.

Although I don't generally feel the need for it, I OC sometimes just BECAUSE I CAN. It's my right, and it's nobody else's business why I want to. My ability to defend my life is worth more than their desire for false security. If everybody is too scared to OC because of what others may think the anit's and idiots of society have successfully undermined an inherent right.

I live in NE Wyo, and I OC on a fairly regular basis. I have been through Wal-Mart on many occasions with everything from a full-size HK USP or Glock 20 to a Kel-Tec P3AT on my hip. I've gotten a few looks, but I really don't care. The more people that carry responsibly in public the less evil those guns will appear. This is Wyoming.... I'd hate for it to turn into a place like CA because the good people were too afraid to scare the idiots.

Wal-Mart has no policy here, and your OCing is 100% legal in WY as long as you are not in a restricted place. The interesting thing is that some places off-limits to CC here are legal for OC.

 

[TCB in TN]

Fact is, guns scare many people in our society, and it doesn't fit with the "norms" of our culture these days!

Perhaps it is time to change those cultural norms! I CC most of the time, but around the farm I OC, and on more than one occasion LEOs have stopped by to ask directions or something like that and most have not even commented about the pistol on my hip. My only experience with OC involved running into a local conv. store to get milk with my revolver still on my hip having forgotten to pull on my over shirt. Maybe 5 or 6 people inside and the only comment was from the cashier who asked what I was carrying. Another customer commented that it was cool to see folks exercising their 2A rights. I zipped back out and got into the car and left, so no big deal.

 

[Kentak]

There's a good chance some businesses may allow legal CCW but have policy against open carry regardless of the legality.

In Ohio, WalMarts are not posted and therefore do not prohibit legal CCW. However, I have never seen open carry in W-M. In fact, I don't see open carry anywhere.

K

 

[altitude_19]

Ya know...I'm not sure where I stand on the OC all the time issue. On one hand, yes, it is nice to maintain the advantage of the element of surprise. On the other, maybe if it was actually the NORM to Open Carry (IE: most people in any given establishment did it) the BGs would feel perpetually outgunned and wouldn't even bother to try anything to begin with. One may doubt that we'll ever reach the point of majority OC, but there were probably doubts as to whether we would ever reach the point of most states allowing CC (to one extent or another). One things for sure, the argument that one should not OC because they might ban OC is FLAWED. How much sense does it make to worry about something being made illegal when you don't have the guts to do it in the first place? It may as well be illegal if you won't exercise your right to do it in the first place! It's like being afraid to write your congressman because it bothers him and he might try to pass legislation against petitioning elected officials!

 

[BB62]

Regarding open carry... take away for a moment whether it's tactically a good or bad idea, and boil it down to its simplest form: If your state has a RIGHT to keep and bear arms (RKBA) in its constitution, would it be OK with you to have that stricken, leaving the law-abiding citizen with only one legal way to carry a firearm - via the PRIVILEGE of a concealed carry license?

 

[coloradokevin]

Perhaps it is time to change those cultural norms! I CC most of the time, but around the farm I OC, and on more than one occasion LEOs have stopped by to ask directions or something like that and most have not even commented about the pistol on my hip.

Wow! You must live in a different area than I work... We had to memorize every street in our area just to pass through FTO.

But, your comment made me think again of something that I just posted in another one of these open carry threads:

The difference in opinions on this subject may very likely fall on geographic lines. I've open carried on relative's farms, and in the backcountry myself. I conceal when carrying where I live and work (in the big city).

The rural versus urban cultural rift may explain a lot of this debate, at least in my opinion.

At least in my experiences, it is more culturally acceptable to open carry in farm country, the backcountry, and smaller rural towns and communities. In the big city it is more frowned upon (and in some cases regulated).

Anyway, just a thought!

 

[WayneConrad]

At least in my experiences, it is more culturally acceptable to open carry in farm country, the backcountry, and smaller rural towns and communities. In the big city it is more frowned upon (and in some cases regulated).

I agree. Geography plays a large part in this debate. First, geography segregates us by law (Arizona vs. Kentucky), then by population density (rural vs. city).

 

[springmom]

At least in my experiences, it is more culturally acceptable to open carry in farm country, the backcountry, and smaller rural towns and communities. In the big city it is more frowned upon (and in some cases regulated).

Which is somewhat ironic, given that actually "needing" the handgun (for anything other than snakes or rabid raccoons) is far more likely in the big city than in the rural areas.

We don't even lock our doors when we leave the ranch to go to town, although we do when we leave to come back to Houston. But here in the metro area, the doors are locked when we're home as well as when we leave. Of course, OC is not allowed except on one's own property in Texas either way, but that irony just struck me when I read your post.

Springmom