Rural Home Defense

[Ester IX:XVI]

Theres a lot of talk about HB in Urban settings but what about us country folks. Our "town" is a Gas Station/Restaurant/Bar, lumber mill and Post Office population 623. The town where we shop is about 12 miles away, population 2500. Its over 120 miles to a city with a population over 50,000. We live on a 1/4 mile lane with 4 neighbors between us and the highway and our back is against forest service land. 90% of the trucks have guns hanging on the rear window and quite a few people carry pistols (you should read the police log in the summer months when the Californies come through). I'd like to see a discussion and thoughts on your rural tactics, precautions etc.

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

Sounds like a nice place to live. Your location makes you a lot safer than I, without even factoring in guns, that's for sure.

Just get a good, full-stocked pump shotgun like a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500/590 for like $300-400 brand new. There's even Chinese knockoffs of the 870 that are good too. Put a $5 buttstock cuff on the thing. Load it with 00 buckshot, put 5 slugs in the cuff. all 2 3/4" and a light would be nice, with al lthat land by you there should be plenty of room to practice with it all the time. you are fine, trust me. Don't let people's zombie fantasies sway you into thinking you need an FAL to fend off a team of commando-burglars raiding your house.

 

[Z-Michigan]

1) I don't know how likely you are to ever need a gun for self-defense.
2) If you need a gun in an area like that, help won't be coming any time soon, and maybe ever.
3) Being in such a rural area it's far less likely your bullets will hurt an innocent bystander.

My personal suggestion is a 16" carbine in a military caliber like 5.56 or 7.62x39mm, with 30rd magazines. You'll probably never, ever need it, but if you do, you'll be glad you had that instead of a 5-shot pump-action shotgun with a 40-yard effective range and massive recoil, or various other options. .308 would probably be more than you need unless you really anticipate trouble, in which case a .308 with 20rd mags would be worth considering. Hopefully you don't need to consider that.

 

[benEzra]

Sounds like you can use pretty much whatever you own and are proficient with.

When we used to live in the boonies in Northwest Florida, a Ruger mini-14 was my go-to gun. Since I was gone a lot, my wife kept her Glock 26 and SKS accessible. None of the above were chosen due to "zombie fantasies," either.

I eventually sold my mini-14 (188-series) because of accuracy issues, and in the same situation today my AK would fill the same role.

One big vulnerability (which is not unique to the country) is the susceptibility to burglary when you're not home. A notifying alarm system (even if it only calls you) can be a good thing, and it is nice to have a perimeter alarm for early warning, though a lot of rural people have dogs for that purpose.

 

[PBinWA]

Gated driveway, dogs, good neighbors, good guns, and a "defensive" mindset.

 

[DWFan]

How far is the distance from your house to the closest cover?...the farthest cover? That determines your best weapon. Do you have any blind alleys where the house can be approached undetected? Dogs can be a great alarm, but can be taken out with a silenced .22 from a distance. Geese can make just as much racket and are harder to shoot. Small aftermarket car driving lights can be mounted around the edges of your roof, pointed away from your house to blind any attackers and wired to a 12V system so they work even if your electric is cut. If you want, you can even mount motion detectors in the tree line and a distance down the driveway and run the wires to an alarm in your house via buried PVC conduit that will automatically activate them..

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

"limited to 40 yards"

Can someone saying that a shotgun is insufficient please explain why a semi-auto rifle is better.

Limited to 40 yards? Only 40 yards? Most HD/SD scenario even in a rural area is gonna be like 5-15 yards tops. If he does get to the exterior of his house while he sees them on his property, that distance is just that, maybe 30-40 yards. Also, slugs are effective to about 100 for anyone who's a decent shot. But how many SD scenarios take place at 100 yards???

Think about that for a second. Say a burglar IS coming to his house. They drive a truck down the road, park near his house, and sneak inside. Now the incident occurs at room's distance. What are you going to do, shoot any unidentified car coming down the road from 150 yards away? Have fun explaining that one to the jury.

As far as the criminal being armed, they're after your stuff, not bent on murdering you. Yeah sure, every couple decades you run into some In Cold Blood types like the guys in Kansas. But the significant portion of the insignificant odds of being robbed will be a person after your stuff. Killing or harming you would be something that occurs if they perceive you to be interfering with that.

A shotgun is just fine for HD. More important for his home security would be a good alarm system, a dog, a gun safe, a safe for valuables, good lighting outside, etc.

Not that I'm trying to compare, or brag, or that me living in peril, makes this somehow better. But do consider this. I live about 3 miles from high rise housing projects. 14 stories of scum, drug addicts, weirdos, vagrants, losers. My town has not had a violent burglary in 18 years, and before that, who knows.

I'll leave it with a question:
How many burglars mount an attack from 150 yards away with a rifle?

 

[content]

Hello friends and neighbors // Get a dog

Early warning system (dog) is a great help in rural areas.

Don't let folks know you have a weapon/s. Knowledge that you have an assortment of portable highly sellable goods (guns) could increase a thieves interest.

When I lived on the lake I had a 1/4 mile dirt/gravel driveway with only two houses. My neighbor only came down on holidays, and one week during summer. The other side was woods for two miles. I was vunerable from water and woods.

///We had a locked gate 30 yards in from the main road.
\\\ I kept things looking from the lake as if there was nothing worth stealing.
///Created a false panel gunrack in an interior wall.
\\\Always went armed on walks due to ferel dogs. Alot of dogs were dumped off at the public boat landing.
///My dog warned me of everything moving night and day and usually had better instincts of who was naughty or nice.
\\\ The power company supplied a bright light and pole for $5.00 a month which lit up the whole yard.

The only time I had trouble was if my neighbor left the gate open. I had several unwanted late night visitors and heard several car broke down stories.
Every time I stayed inside, armed with phone,shotgun and revolver. Not to mention dog. I instantly offered to call sheriff for assistance. They instantly got car working and left... who knows. I never felt it necessary to see them FTF or to shuck pump action. IMHO shucking just lets purp know you have shotgun and to move to cover or come back when you are gone to steal weapon.

As powerful a shotgun and revolver as you can handle should get you by. Then add a rifle, 30-30 lever is reliable and easy for 150 yards in. 30-06 on up scoped if you need distance..( I have 12ga., 357 ,30.06)

Having neighbors can be good or bad. It sounds like you have a great location there....enjoy content

 

[markshere2]

Quote
" Dogs can be a great alarm, but can be taken out with a silenced .22 from a distance"

Yikes - has anybody EVER heard of dogs being killed by bad guys with a silenced 22?

I'm new here, but that's stretchin a bit ain't it?

And Geese are the solution to that "problem"?

Jeeze I hate geese. Noisy, annoying, crap everywhere, aggressive bastids.

Sorry -I don't buy the problem or solution.
Dogs are great for deterrence, particularly if inside with you.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Can someone saying that a shotgun is insufficient please explain why a semi-auto rifle is better.

Limited to 40 yards? Only 40 yards? Most HD/SD scenario even in a rural area is gonna be like 5-15 yards tops. If he does get to the exterior of his house while he sees them on his property, that distance is just that, maybe 30-40 yards. Also, slugs are effective to about 100 for anyone who's a decent shot. But how many SD scenarios take place at 100 yards???

For starters, I think the small magazine capacity, heavy recoil and (I forgot to mention) huge blinding muzzle flash at night are all other good reasons to steer away from a shotgun if you don't need to use one due to bystander issues.

With a smoothbore 12ga, I would not consider it humane to try to shoot a deer more than about 40 yards away. Yes, I practice often and am a good shot. While "humane kill" is not the goal of self-defense, if it doesn't meet that test for accuracy/range then I don't see it being effective to stop someone who is shooting back at you. I'm not saying the slug won't be effective if it hits a vital area - I'm saying I don't count on hitting a vital area beyond that range.

How many deer have you humanely killed (through the intended kill zone) at 100 yards using a smoothbore shotgun with conventional slugs?

It is extremely unlikely that you would have a legitimate first self-defense shot at great range, but it is possible that you would have legitimate subsequent shots at more than 25, 40, 50 or even 100 yards, if the bad guys are determined and brought their own rifles. You can plan for only 80% of possible scenarios or you can plan for 99%. I prefer to plan for 99% when there is essentially no drawback to doing so. The carbine provides much lighter recoil, much greater ammunition capacity (30 or even 40rds vs. at most 9 in a relatively long 20" barreled shotgun), smaller overall size (especially length; an 18" shotgun is generally at least 39" long, while a 16" carbine is typically around 35" [shorter cartridges require less action length]), and the option on many models of a flash suppressor so your shots in low light don't blind you. All of these are very practical benefits in defending yourself when no help will be coming in a useful time-frame.

You don't seem to be talking about rifled barrels with sabot slugs, but just to head off that potential argument, if you go that route you might as well use a 45/70 since the ballistics are very similar and the 45/70 would be cheaper to practice with.

In a rural setting as the OP described, what drawback do you see to using a .223 rifle instead of a 12ga shotgun?

 

[1911Tuner]

Keep the dogs inside. Get a shotgun. Buckshot is dangerous out past a hundred yards, and with a modified choke, about 3 or 4 will hit a B27. With 9-15 pellets per shell whistlin' through the air and cuttin' the branches offa the trees, the bad guys out there in the bushes will think they've opened the gates of hell itself by the 2nd or 3rd round.

 

[benEzra]

Can someone saying that a shotgun is insufficient please explain why a semi-auto rifle is better.

A rifle may not be better, but it's certainly just as good. It boils down to personal preference and what the individual is most competent with.

A shotgun is just fine for HD. More important for his home security would be a good alarm system, a dog, a gun safe, a safe for valuables, good lighting outside, etc.

No argument there. A rifle is also just fine for HD, and is not indicative of "zombie fantasies."

How many burglars mount an attack from 150 yards away with a rifle?

That would certainly be a rare event. However, range is not the carbine's only potential advantage; others are improved precision at all ranges, considerably less recoil, and better capacity. That's not to say that carbines are superior for everyone, merely to point out that there are rational reasons why one might choose a carbine other than range (though the range capability isn't a negative).

Police agencies have been supplementing or replacing the traditional trunk shotgun with small-caliber patrol rifles for well over a decade, for reasons largely unrelated to 150-yard firefights and killing zombies.

Roberts G.K., "Law Enforcement General Purpose Shoulder Fired Weapons: the Wounding Effects of 5.56mm/.223 Carbines Compared with 12 ga. Shotguns and Pistol Caliber Weapons Using 10% Ordnance Gelatin as a Tissue Simulant, Police Marksman, Jul/Aug 1998, pp. 38-45.

"Until recently, the 12 gauge shotgun has remained the universally accepted shoulder fired weapon for United States law enforcement use, despite the shotgun's limitations as a general purpose weapon--short effective range, imprecise accuracy, downrange hazard to bystanders, small ammunition capacity, slow reloading, and harsh recoil. While 12 gauge shotguns still have a valid law enforcement role, especially to deliver specialized munitions and possibly in close quarters combat (CQB), recent recognition of the shotgun's significant limitations as a general purpose weapon have prompted many American law enforcement agencies to begin adopting the more versatile semi-automatic carbine for general purpose use.(12) Semi-automatic carbines offer more accuracy, less recoil, greater effective range, faster reloading, and a larger ammunition capacity than the traditional shotgun."

Again, I'm not bashing shotguns, just pointing out that there are valid reasons why not everyone prefers them.

 

[Quoheleth]

Couple other thoughts...

Buy/borrow a GPS unit and get pinpoint readings of your house and/or other locations where you might be. If you ever need help RIGHT NOW from fire, EMS, police, being able to give them GPS coordinates might save precious minutes.

Buy a 2-way radio for family communications should the need arise.

Buy a small ham radio rig and appropriate licenses from the gov't for broader-range communications.

Good, heavy-duty flashlights like Maglights make not only great light sources but weapons (i.e., kubatons) as well.

Finally, keep in contact with neighbors - even if the nearest neighbor is a distance away. Develop a plan where you watch out for each other and help as you can. If you want to get really serious, develop some code phrases or key words "just in case." Ever been in a hospital where they call for "Doctor Grey to Three East" or "Doctor Green to ER"? Usually means something like
smoke on the 3rd floor, or violent patient in the ER. Make up something like that so when your neighbor calls to see how you're doing, you have an innocous word to use that means "Get help!"

Q

 

[Avenger29]

I live in a rural area, this is something we out here give much thought to. LE is 40 minutes minimum, more like an hour or more away. Medical and fire same. And that's even if they can find the place, and they have to argue over which county we are in. We had to call 911 the other week, and the dispatcher ARGUED with us over which county we were in, and whether or not they were responsible for sending out a unit. Fortunatly, we were able to take care of business.

The first order of business is to secure your ****, because theft is a big problem. Alarm system, secure storage, etc. You don't want to come home to a broken in house, or run into thieves who are leaving with your guns and will use them against you.

Second order of business is to have early warning for when you are home. Dog(s), driveway alarm, etc. Cars these days are quiet and it's chilling to hear the doorbell ring and never even have known there was a stranger's car parked in your driveway. Outside cameras would also be a great asset.

Establish comms with your friends and neighbors. If you need it, you will need it bad. Cell phones don't always work in the boonies.

Weapons- a shotgun is never an unwelcome addition to your battery. I prefer a rifle like an AR or an AK for the additional range, capacity, low recoil, and anybody in my family can use the AR-15 with it's adjustable stock and always on Aimpoint. Everybody from my mother to my 15 y.o. sister can use it easily. Lights are absolutely necessary for your HD weapon of choice. Engaging outside threats is a possibility, be prepared.

Medical skills- learn them, keep ample supplies on hand. Everybody that can in your household needs to know these skills and how to shoot.

 

[David E]

An AR-15, Mini-14 or AK would all be better choices than a shotgun, especially for the rural defense the OP is concerned about.

The big thing is capacity. As others have said, 911 is no guarantee of anyone showing up anytime soon, so you'll have to hold down the fort until and if, they do arrive.

Shotguns kick. A lot. If I had to give the long gun to my wife or daughter, I'd much rather is was a .223 carbine instead of a 12 gauge pump.

Precision has also been mentioned as an advantage for the carbine.

You can shoot an AR one handed much easier than a 12 gauge pump.

When I lived in the country, my house was the only one on that entire square mile. Nearest neighbor was 3/4 mile away, so no help anytime soon. We never had a problem, but once, someone was at the side door when I came around the corner of the house. He was harmless, but it made me glad I had a gun on me.

Unless there was a specific reason to target your house, you're probably fine. But it's not unusual for rural criminals to travel in packs, bringing us back to the capacity consideration.

 

[slabuda]

Know your neighbors and let them know you. Strangers stand out in the sticks.

Security lights, alarm bell like gas stations use at your drive.

Secure your stuff and keep high theft items out of sight (snow machines, 4 wheelers, boats etc) out of sight in a garage or behind house.

Can never go wrong with a noisy dog.

Knowing first aid is a big plus if you are injured in some sort of attack as help sounds a long way off.

Infrared security cameras linked (Drive, outside 4 corners, inside) to a monitor in a safe room..Id suggest bedroom as its a likely place to store weapons and where you are most likely to be at night when majority of crimes happen.


Just some things off the top of my head, some mentioned some I dont think so yet.

As far as guns what ever you like is as good as any really.All have pros/cons.

 

[wrs840]

I'm in the sticks, same distance from civilization as you seem to be, Ester IX:XVI. I have a quick access lock-up with 12ga and 20ga short-barrel buck-loaded Moss 500s, a 28" bbl 870 mod choke loaded with 00, a 30-30 lever, a 9mm auto, and my daily-carry pocket guns in there. What you'll grab when you're in your underwear depends on the situation and the distance to the problem... and yes, the 870 is good to about 40 yards, at least with me shooting it... Wouldn't hurt to have an SKS or AK47 around either.

Knowing your neighbors. motion-lights, well-stocked first-aid kits, and a good dog are a definite plus. Don't forget a bunch of fire-extinguishers. I think I have about fifteen.

...And a round-butt revolver on your hip doesn't chew-up your tractor seats near as quick as an auto.

Les

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

Infrared security cameras linked (Drive, outside 4 corners, inside) to a monitor in a safe room..Id suggest bedroom as its a likely place to store weapons and where you are most likely to be at night when majority of crimes happen.

Dogs can be a great alarm, but can be taken out with a silenced .22 from a distance

Sorry but these are just not scenarios even worth worrying about IMO. If they kill my dogs with a silenced .22 that means the Green Berets are raiding my house. And the cameras just scream Tony Montana. Do what you want, but some of this advice just comes off as silly.

Based on some of these posts I do retract my comment about an AK/SKS for rural HD. THough I'd still prefer the shotgun I do see how the rifle could be useful, provided one remembers its for defense.

 

[schlockinz]

A pack of Catahoula's and a carbine

 

[Zoogster]

Rural locations are not talked about as often because they generally have much greater freedom of self defense, more understanding jury pools, and less crime to result in problems. Also obviously far fewer people live in them overall.

The primary concerns in a rural setting are vulnerability due to isolation. You may very well be the only one around. Police response times are also often higher.
You and your family need to be ready to provide for your own well being.
However safety in public crowds in a city is often just an illusion. Many people are beaten to death, shot, or robbed right in front of others with nobody willing to step in on behalf of a stranger.
In many gang areas, even on a crowded street those people will not even give a witness statement after the fact.
So safety in a city crowd is an illusion, and someone is often just as responsible for thier own well being walking down a crowded city street as they would be alone down a dirt road in the country.

Police generally show up after the fact more quickly in a city, but it is still generally after the fact.

On personal property you can do a lot to reduce vulnerability. From the layout of land, vegetation, fences, other man made and natural obstacles and electronic security etc.
And that is before you even get inside, where additional layers can be in place.
Of course half of the reason for living in the country is often for the added tranquility, so turning your home into a fort with high security, visibility, and highly visible deterrent factors may undo that.
So there is a balance for everyone.
What may be not enough to one person can be too much to the next.
For example something related in my region:
Many areas require or recommend 100-200 feet of vegetation clearance around a home for fire safety. Yet many people want the beauty of trees and bushes and privacy and shade closer than that. So the greater fire danger is worth more to them. While the next person may want the greatest chance of thier home surviving a fire, and live with a much more barren landscape which is less enjoyable on a daily basis to achieve that.
Others have something in between, which reduces the risk but still has vulnerability.
The same is true for security.

 

[snakeman]

pit bull and a 38 snubbie and a 10/22

 

[snakeman]

all with lasers ( even the pit bull =])

 

[Avenger29]

And the cameras just scream Tony Montana. Do what you want, but some of this advice just comes off as silly.

I think you are wrong on the cameras. Having as much situational awareness as what's happening outside the house without going outside the house is very important. Night vision capability would also be a great asset. I'm shopping for NV optics right now, but am probably going to hold off until I can get the money for a good NV optic (i.e., $2500-3000).

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

Sorry, my house is nice, but I simply do not feel the need to sit and watch security monitors in my own house. There is simply not that much danger present. Sorry. That's cool if you wanna drop 3k on a night vision optic, I'd rather use the 3k for a nice family vacation.

 

[Averageman]

Lots of good advice here.
I would reccomend security lights and an infrared detector at the gate. Not only does this help with security its just nice to have when you come home in the dark. A home security system is cheap compared to losing all of your stuff, My doors and windows "Chrip" anytime a door or window is opened and thats a rather comforting feeling. I think even the tacky little sign in front of the house helps.
Knowing your neighbors is priceless. They can watch your place anytime you are gone for you if you offer to return the favor. I bet they even know the cars that "belong there" out in the sticks.
I don't know where you stand with your weapons right now, you might have everything you need now. You might be very well trained from military service or time as a LEO. If I go on the assumption (we all know about ASSumptions) that you have no weapons I would reccomend a 12ga pump, a lever action carbine in a Magnum pistol caliber and a matching pistol that you carry on your hip. Those are all pretty basic and multipurpose on your farm.
A couple of muts from the pound never hurts, great companions and first alert sentries.
I think most crimminals look at is risk and reward, the will move on if you make it a little harder for them than the guy down the road.