Russian Mosin 91-30 Accuracy

[razorback2003]

What kind of accuracy at 100 yards can you get with a Russian 91-30 Izhevsk round receiver with decent noncorrosive ammo? The barrel has been cleaned out of all copper and has not been counterbored or re crowned.

 

[farmerboy78]

The first thing I would do is slug the barrel to find out the diameter of the bore...they vary alot...most surplus is between .310 and .311...if you turn out with a good bore, then they can be very accurate. Especially if you were to pick up a Finnish version...

 

[fpgt72]

It all comes down to how Olga packed it away 70 years ago....and just how well it was "taken care of" up to that point.

 

[JSH1]

It is a crap shoot. My Mosin has a bore that looks to be in great shape but shoots 5 inch groups at 25 yards using surplus ammo.

 

[BCRider]

The ammo quality counts for more than the rifle when it comes to accuracy. With milsurp I got I was getting 8 to 10 inch groups at 100 with a good number of fliers that didn't even land on the paper. A change to a box of Privi Partizan ammo instantly dropped the rifle down to shooting 3'ish inch groups.

And that was before I modified the rear sight from a shallow and all but invisible "v" to a deeper "U" shape so it's more friendly with old guy eyes. With that I'm hoping to get down closer to 2 inches with my own reloads.

This does not mean that the rifle doesn't matter. It does. But it's a team thing with the ammo, rifle and shooter all working together. If any one of these is sub standard it all goes to hell in a handcart.

The thing with milsurp is that each SPAM can is an entity unto itself. We have no idea if this one will be a good batch or "minute of hillside" poor. The only way to be sure is to either buy good quality factory ammo or load our own. I'm going with the "load our own" because it's cheaper over the long run for the amount I plan on shooting.

 

[desidog]

While measuring the bore is the best way to get it right, it's not fool proof. My .314 bore is more accurate than my .312; with surplus.

Taking a cue from .22lr bench shooters, i took a bunch of surplus x54R and weighed them individually... presuming the casings and projectiles are a constant (well, close enough anyways) there was significant powder charge variation.

 

[Holescreek]

Here were the results of a 30 piece teardown I did:



Case weight was the primed brass.

 

[minutemen1776]

I've owned several Mosin-Nagants, including a 91/30. In my experience, NONE (including the celebrated Finn rifles) demonstrated anything better than mediocre accuracy. I presume that certain specific rifles run much better (or worse), but I never won the accuracy lottery with a Mosin-Nagant. Instead, I got a string of $100-$200 rifles that shot like $100-$200 rifles.

 

[Hammer059]

I've owned 3 Mosins. It's really hit or miss (no pun intended). Two of them would shoot 6"-8" groups at 100 yards if I did my part AND had the bayonet on. For me I was very satisfied with their accuracy, certainly minute-of bad guy. One of them wasn't quite as good, but it still hit paper. As mentioned, the bayonet really seemed to help accuracy, plus it looks bad-ass. I've heard some people complain that the bayonet is hard to take on/off, but mine always fit perfectly.

Just find one with a good bore, which isn't that hard. Glass bedding seemed to help and was an easy job.

 

[Sunray]

Too many variables to predict accuracy of a given milsurp rifle. 35 years ago the shop I worked in had Mosins that were on target at 200 yards with Norma ammo(nothing else was available then). These days the quality of the barrels aren't as high, but there are more options for ammo.

 

[nathan]

3 inch average MOA.

 

[OYE]

What kind of accuracy at 100 yards can you get with a Russian 91-30 Izhevsk round receiver with decent noncorrosive ammo?

Can't say about noncorrosive ammo. Haven't shot any. You might talk to the Hornady techs if you can't find out here. They have some they are shooting that are sub inch as I recall, a few years back. (I checked before I bought one.)


What's possible with corrosive? Have an Russian 91/30 Ishevik 1943 round receiver all serial numbers match, headspace is tight, slugs .313 all the way through the bore, with no loose spots on either end, has not been counterbored, or recrowned, isn't a downgraded sniper rifle ( no wood pieced in
where the scope mount used to be), in "as is" condition with the only alteration being the front sight post. We slipped a piece of wire insulation of the appropriate height over the front post. Purchased from Cabelas for 90.00 as I recall. Ammo is 1977 Russian manufacture 147 grain steel core (.311) with copper washed steel cases, headstamp 188 77 .

With open sights (and no bayonet) and perfect lighting center to center 3 shot group .45 inch best group. 4 shot best group .76 inch. (5th shot was called out) We are not good enough shots to shoot a 5 shot group without throwing a called one out. And we simply are not skilled enough to do that every day. In fact its the best open sight shooting we've ever done with any rifle at 100 yds ( with scopes we have several rifles that will do that) . Actually it was the first group we ever fired from that rifle.
Needless to say we bought a few cans of that while the getting was good. We can't reload for 4.25 a box.
And we consider ourselves to be very fortunate indeed. OYE

We did have a brand new pair of bifocal glasses that we had just got in from China for 55.00. So maybe that was "the racers edge". OYE

 

[Ash]

Finns shoot better than Russians, but I have had Russians that shot very well.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

Tough to answer as was said.

Saying that, my M44 carbine (obviously not what you are requesting info on, but here's at least something) is "clay pidgeon" accurate at 100 yards off hand.

From a bench, I might be able to get 3 MOA if I really try. So it is as accurate as the irons will allow you to be. Mine does not favor a certain weight of ammo.

 

[herrwalther]

It can widely vary. The first time I took out my Russian '43 I was able to keep rounds on a standard paper plate at 100 yards with iron sights and a rest. Other times it can be minute of backstop.

 

[TimboKhan]

Keeping in line with what everyone else accurately said, I think it's important to recognize the difference between practical accuracy and accuracy potential. Maybe those aren't real terms so let me break down what I mean: accuracy potential is when you know you have an MOA rifle and are just trying to squeeze out every last millimeter in a particular grouping. If you think that's going to happen with any Mosin, you are in for a heartbreaking ride. Practical accuracy is the ability to hit what you are shooting at on a reasonably consistent basis. As a general rule, most Mosins will do that. It does depend on the particular gun and barrel and wizards that all had a hand in your rifle, but as a general rule of thumb you should be able to hit what you are shooting at. Hitting it precisely where you want might be a challenge, but lead on target should be expected.

I would also add that my current Mosin is accurate enough for hunting, and I don't know that I personally have ever shot one that wasn't. It requires knowing your rifle and kissing 300 yards shots goodbye (for the most part), but I wouldn't feel disadvantaged shooting my Mosin at appropriate game. I know that at 100 yards and in I am going to get paper plate accuracy, and that is practical enough for hunting.

 

[caribou]

Most Mosin Nagant 91/30s will shoot , with Russian 147 gr "silver tip" or "no color" 7,62x54r into a 5-8 inch group at 100 yards. With some tuning, this can be reduced by at least 1/2.

Finn Rifles do better, the M-28's and M-39's are consistently better with 2-5 inch groups. Some require 'tuning' after 60 years of storage.

Czeck and Finn loaded and issued ammo was on par with American made ammo in consistent bullet weights and powder charge, so alot has to do with what kind of surplus you are useing.

Czeck through a Finn was very fine indeed.

3 pillars of accuracy are a good rifle, good ammo and good marksmanship skills. Some folks are not used to the style of sights, some not used to irons at all, some dont fit the stock, some dont clean their guns, the list gos on about how to ruin accuracy, so be sure to keep your rifle tuned to its best and maintained, especially using corrosively primed military surpls ammunition

 

[arspeukinen]

Mine drops tin cans at 100m no probs with milsurp silvertip, but it's a rebarreled arsenal build from 1970's.

 

[Ash]

Timbo really hits it right on the nail head and sinks it with one blow. But, what is true of the Mosin is also true of the K98k (or other M98 based Mausers), Enfields, you name it. Military rifles are like 4x4 trucks: rugged, reliable, well-built, but not meant for the drag racing track.

There are superbly accurate military rifles. The Finnish M39 was held to among the highest standards of accuracy of any general issue military rifle in WWII. The 91/30 not so much, but they were accurate rifles. The Soviets didn't pick hyper-accurate 91/30's to build their sniper rifles, just rifles off the line. They then fine-tuned them for service as a sniper's rifle. Any military rifle is designed to hit its target. They all will. But in the din of battle, men just were rarely in positions to hit a man between the eyes by design (you know, men move around, duck, all those things to avoid getting hit between the eyes).

But, reality in this case simply is, they were never intended for bench-shooting. They were intended for accurate fire under severe conditions. Neither was any Mauser issued to any military or Enfield. Indeed, the Enfield was savaged by the English shooting elites prior to WWI as pathetic in the accuracy department, so much so that the Ross and P13 were introduced in their respective parts of the empire. The Ross, which was more accurate, was incapable of handling the battlefield. The p13 fired an insanely powerful round (way too much for a combat rifle) and in any case, WWI jumped up to stop its implementation. It was modified as the P14 (and the M1917) and made a great combat rifle, but in no nation was that action actually retained for front-line service after the war.

Now, there are very accurate versions of just about any military action, the Mosin is no different. Indeed, the Mosin shares many of the same characteristics of modern bolt-action rifles., including the Remington 700. Swedish M41's, Finnish sniper rifles up to an including the TKIV 85, various other Mauser snipers (including Springfield), the French F1, all prove that standard military actions can be made into very accurate rifles.

 

[ford8nr]

My round top 91/30 I paid $85 for several years ago with the accessory kit included shoots 'well' with prepped Russian 188 surplus ammo. Ammo is sorted by overall case weight and bullets are bumped in my seating die to a consistent depth and to break the varnish seal. The bore of this rifle has some pitting and I've never been able to clean out all of the rust. Bore slugs at .311 so my hand loads use 303 British bullets at .311 dia. Hand loads don't shoot much tighter then the sorted surplus. The rear sight slot has been deepened and widened, the barrel free floated and a skim bedding put on the action area. Attached is a 100yd vintage match SR-21C target (appros .8" x ring)

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Military matches started up at the local gun club in March. I did a sight check last week on my Mosin Type 53 carbine in a M1944 stock.

With the rear sight set on 100, shooting 7.62x54R yellow tip bullet, brass cartridge case (invoiced as Bulgarian 183gr heavy ball) at 100 yards, I got a five shot group about 3.5" diameter centered about 10" above the point of aim. The sun was hitting the target through the trees with breeze; and the recoil was brutal from the bench. Not the best of conditions for not the best of shooter.

That's the same sight picture and results I got with my Mosin 91/30 (all matching rifle, as opposed to my mixed part carbine): with the standard 100yd NRA target you put the post on the bottom 5-ring to hit the bullseye.

 

[ford8nr]

I installed a taller front sight post so my hold is 6 o-clock tight to the black. My rear sight is on the 200 notch to shoot 100. I could file down the front sight but I do want to leave room for adjustments if I play with my reloads. For a 50 rd Vintage Bench Match I wear a PAST strap on shooting pad, makes an unbelievable difference.

 

[giggitygiggity]

I sporterized mine with the ATI Mosin-Nagant stock and scope mount kit and threw on a cheap Simmon 3-9x40 scope. The groups are about 1.5-2 inches using Prvi 150 grain SP ammo.

 

[ol' scratch]

I consistently get a sub MOA 3/4 inch group at 100 yards with my M91/30 PU made by Izhmash. I am using the original and serial numbered to the rifle 3.5 scope and mount. That is a three shot group shooting from a bench. Groups string a bit and open up to 1 1/2 inches with a 5 shot group. I think the handguard heats up. That is using Bulgarian silver tip ammo. I have not reloaded for the rifle yet, but I have plans to do so. My muzzle, oddly enough measures a 2 on a .308 muzzle gauge. The barrel is bright and shiny with no pitting. I have not slugged it yet. That type of accuracy is not ordinary for a Mosin.


You can still get the PU right now. They are the least expensive honest to goodness sniper rifle I am aware of right now. A link to my rifle and some pics. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=704608

 

[Holescreek]

I consistently get a sub MOA 3/4 inch group at 100 yards with my M91/30 PU made by Izhmash. That is a three shot group shooting from a bench. Groups string a bit and open up to 1 1/2 inches with a 5 shot group. I think the handguard heats up. That is using Bulgarian silver tip ammo. I have not reloaded for the rifle yet, but I have plans to do so. My muzzle, oddly enough measures a 2 on a .308 muzzle gauge. I have not slugged it yet.

I have the exact same problem with the last 3 rifles I've built. Good for 3 shots then blow out to 1 1/4" when the barrel heats up. I've been chasing my tail for a couple of years to try to figure out how to get a 5 good shot group that doesn't take an hour to shoot.