S&W 586 no dash, really a problem?

[Slamfire]

Right. I used a 686 in runNgun competitions, where fast DA shooting and fast speedloader-fed reloads are tough on a gun. Nonetheless, I put 60,000 - 70,000 plated bullets (over 3.5g Clays in .38 special cases running 825fps) through it before I relegated it to backup status, and even then, it still ran fine - I just happened to pick up a low-mileage 686 I tuned up as my primary gun. I'd likely get the same lifespan out of a Model 19, but I shoot an L-frame better. As mentioned, though, .357s will eventually add wear and tear on a K-frame .

I talked to two Bullseye Pistol shooter who used K frame 38 Special S&W's. The time limits in 2700 Bullseye are five shots in 10 seconds, and five shots in 20 seconds for rapid fire and time fire.

These guys were shooting 148 LWC 2.7 grains Bullseye pistol powder, so very light loads. They were not cranking the cylinder as fast as those in combat sports. They shot hundreds of thousands of rounds through their K frames and wore out cylinder ratchets, broke a firing pin. The K frame pistols were sent back to S&W, I am sure new cylinder hands, stops and springs were installed along with the ratchets. Once returned, the K frames kept on banging. The 10 time PPC champ champ I talked to had cracked a K frame barrel using "major" loads in 38 Special. Don't remember if it was a 38 or 357 pistol. He said he had 600,000 rounds though a Shilen barrel, and that K frame still shot two inch groups at 50 yards.

You want your S&W's to last forever? shoot light loads.

 

[halfmoonclip]

The problem that brought about the M stamp recall was with 1 specific manufacturers load. I believe it was Federal....

Entirely believable. Federal battery cups are softer than other brands; I prefer them, for easier seating when reloading, and (sometimes) easier ignition.
Moon

 

[MrBorland]

Federal battery cups are softer than other brands; I prefer them, for easier seating when reloading, and (sometimes) easier ignition

Revolvers tuned specifically for runNgun games are generally lightly-sprung, and we often simply referred to them as "Federal Only". I've got a few of them in my safe, and since I sold off my reloading gear, de-tuning them so they're more usable has been on my to-do list

 

[Onty]

Anyway in 40 F ish weather, I got hangfires and a squib shooting 158 LRN and AA#9 powder, a ball powder. The primer was WSP. I was able to knock the bullet out of the throat and open the cylinder by using a long shafted screwdriver. Yah tools and a block of wood!

That is the reason I always have in my box brass rod, 5/16" dia, 10" long (8 mm dia rod will also do) for 38 and 357, and 3/8" dia brass rod for 44 and 45. Once, I was with friend on the range, I was shooting 41 Magnum Bisley, he was shooting 44 magnum Flattop. At one moment he called stop. He couldn't get one case out with ejector. He removed cylinder, I took my brass rod and hammer and we knocked stubborn case out. Turned out, he slipped into 44 revolver 41 Magnum round. Somehow, while shooting my 41 Bisley, he put one round into his ammo box with 44 rounds, and we had some fun.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I had a no dash M686, it was a fine pistol. As I recall primers did have a habit of cupping, probably due to a larger firing pin hole, but that did not cause any malfunctions for me. I traded it off plus boot for a Python. Wish I had kept it.

I was sort of able to make that mistake up when this "blued" stainless steel M686 came available

The 586/686 are simply more rugged than the K frames, and are therefore a little heavier. Time has shown that they are an excellent, reliable, and durable 357 revolver. As long as a used L frame has not been dorked with by previous owners, it will function fine. I always recommend buying an extra mainspring just in case the old one has taken a set. No need for an extra power mainspring, standard factory is just fine. A weak mainspring will create mis fires, hang fires, with ball powders, or hard primers, all of which is aggravated in cold weather.

Bud of mine said he shot 60,000 rounds of 148 LWC 2.7 grs Bullsye in 38 Special cases through this M586 in PPC competition. He used Federal primers which are the most sensitive primers around.

I think this is a dash zero M586. Anyway in 40 F ish weather, I got hangfires and a squib shooting 158 LRN and AA#9 powder, a ball powder. The primer was WSP. I was able to knock the bullet out of the throat and open the cylinder by using a long shafted screwdriver. Yah tools and a block of wood!

Primer looks well hit, but looks are deceiving.

I installed a new S&W mainspring, went out the next week in 50 ish weather with the same ammunition. went bang every round. Mainspring strength is very important for reliable ignition. And sometimes old guns just don't have it anymore. Bud got away with it because he was using Federals and Bullseye pistol powder which is very easy to ignite.

That 686-3 midnight blue 1989 limited edition Smith is absolutely gorgeous.
I have a 686-4 and it is one of my "never get rid of" guns.

 

[Slamfire]

That is the reason I always have in my box brass rod, 5/16" dia, 10" long (8 mm dia rod will also do) for 38 and 357, and 3/8" dia brass rod for 44 and 45. Once, I was with friend on the range, I was shooting 41 Magnum Bisley, he was shooting 44 magnum Flattop. At one moment he called stop. He couldn't get one case out with ejector. He removed cylinder, I took my brass rod and hammer and we knocked stubborn case out. Turned out, he slipped into 44 revolver 41 Magnum round. Somehow, while shooting my 41 Bisley, he put one round into his ammo box with 44 rounds, and we had some fun.

Never say never!

It is smart to have a brass long long enough to completely extend down the barrel, and knock out a stuck case, or worse, a squib bullet.

Might have been May or June, but Ole Joe (in his 80's!) was shooting his 1911 along with me in a 2700 Bullseye Match. At the end of of one match (might have been TF or RF) Ole Joe had his 1911 apart and had a brass rod (5/16 or 3/8") down the tube and was beating on it. Finally he smacked the rod hard enough to remove a 185 gr LSWC that was half way up the tube! Ole Joe was smart enough to know, when he pulled the trigger on his 1911 and it did not go bang, but a fired case ejected when he manually racked the slide, that a bullet was still in the barrel. Not his first time to the Rodeo. Joe was given plenty of time, he reassembled his 1911 and continued the match. Note, the squib felt and sounded normal.

Later I asked around. Mr J told me about two squibs he had in Bullseye competition, and that they are not obvious to him. Mr J extracted a fired empty but thought the boom and recoil were normal and the bullet went down range. So he chambered another round, and bulged his barrel with the next round. The second squib (probably years later), also happened during slow fire. He thought the bullet went down range, chambered another round after extracting an empty. To Mr J, both squibs felt normal and sounded normal. However, on the second squib, the shooter behind him noticed the round did not sound right and stopped him from pulling the trigger. And what do you know, a bullet half way up the barrel, probably due to primer action only. Buddies who look out for you are Golden! So the stuck bullet was extracted and Mr J was able to continue shooting.

It is always a problem in matches to want to keep on going. Especially if you have trained as I did, to rack, tap, and continue shooting. I used to shoot IPSC and that was the drill, clear the malfunction and keep on going. Even in 2700 Bullseye where there are alibi's and more shooting time, because you are fixated on sight alignment and trigger pull, are working against a time limit, you won't have access to those mental resources that would advise: "Stop and Look".

However, we do have the capacity to learn, and we can be trained to recognize situations which require further investigation, rather than racking, tapping, and chambering the next round.

I talked to Les Baer customer service about this, while ordering parts. The lady there said something to the affect, you would not believe the number of 1911's that are returned because a bullet was lodged in the barrel.

While your reloads have been perfect to date, and of course you expect perfection forever. Accept the concept that mistakes happen, so check things out.

Nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect. Wabi Sabi.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Still have the original barrel from my 645 in my junk box; same deal, squib (my first one, ever), and I simply cycled the slide for another rounds....looks like a little, silver snake, swallowing a rat.
Got a replacement barrel, swapped the gun...kinda wish I'd kept it, though those were tanks, compared to a 1911.
Moon
ETA, Mr. Borland, the recommended test for S&Ws, was to point the muzzle in the air, and see if the hammer still put off the primer, double action. Yeah, you had to pick the spot to do this ( :0 ), and Federals are the softest. CCI may have softened their battery cups; my softly sprung N frames are still going bang.
M

 

[SwampWolf]

I would write Smith&Wesson and ask them if the revolver having the serial number yours does was affected with any need to be remedied. If a modification is needed, the factory might make the change for you.

 

[DAver7]

I have a 586 no dash that I bought new. I reload so most of the ammo through it have been my reloads. Mine would jam with the primmer flowing back into the FB if it was a 357 load didn't matter what weight the bullet was. I sent it back to S&W years ago came back with the M stamp.

 

[gilgsn]

Mine would jam with the dimmer flowing back into the FB if it was a 357 load

Hello. Do you remember which primers you used?
Gil.

 

[DAver7]

They believe they were Winchester.

 

[P5 Guy]

Hello. Do you remember which primers you used?
Gil.

Federal makes the softest primmer cup. CCI are the hardest.

 

[DAver7]

I'm not sure a harder primmer cup would make a difference.

 

[gilgsn]

Hello.
What's confusing is that they apparently don't all do it, and few have the problem..
That doesn't help me in my decision, choosing between a model 19-3 or 586 no-dash.
Given that It probably would be difficult to have it modified here sure complicates things..
Gil.

 

[gilgsn]

Well, I went with the 586 no-dash. Hopefully I won't have any issue with primers flowing back into the hammer nose hole. I will go up in charge slowly and use slow powder and CCI primers.

 

[jmorris]

The ones I have S&W took back, repaired and added the M.

I was on the fence but after my Brother got his back I could find no reason to not send mine in.

 

[gilgsn]

I was on the fence but after my Brother got his back I could find no reason to not send mine in.

Well, if I lived in the U.S. I would not hesitate. Here in France it's another story...
I did find the address of a company presumably doing S&W work and will ask them.
If they do the work I'll post the information here.
Gil.

 

[P5 Guy]

I load all my revolver ammo and use Winchester standard primers for moderate magnum loads.

 

[Elkins45]

I would buy the 586 and be happy.

 

[gilgsn]

I would buy the 586 and be happy.

I did
Gil.