S&W 586 sow's ear

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OrangePwrx9

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I've got a 4" 586 that I bought new about 15 years ago and haven't shot much. It's the least accurate 357 I own by far. The cylinder fit has always seemed loose with a fair amount of rotational slop when cocked. In the course of reloading for it, I noticed the chambers seemed slightly oversize as well. When I resize 357 brass, I can always tell which cases came from the 586.

Accuracy at 25 yards is barely acceptable. At 50, it shoots patterns, not groups. Full power or target wadcutter loads, it doesn't make any difference. It doesn't spit lead.

It's been back to S&W at least once back in the '90s. As I recall I complained about accuracy and also had a trigger job done. The trigger job came out great but accuracy wasn't much better when it came back. Blamed it on the front sight and had a gunsmith install a target type sight. He did a good job. So now the gun has great sights and a terrific trigger, but still shoots like crap.

Anyway, is it worth sending this gun back to S&W again? If so, what do I ask for; a new cylinder, new barrel or what? Or would I be better off sending it to a gunsmith that specializes in 586/686 accuracy? If so, who? Or should I just swap it off?

I've got a 6" 686 that shoots like a laser. I keep telling myself, this gun should be able to do as well.
Thanks.
Bob
 
See what diameter the Cylinder Bores are on the far end...and, likewise, for the between-the-Lands of the Barrel.

Might be it is over-size, in which case, slightly larger Bullets of appropriate Alloy for their speeds, would be the next step.


See what those measurements are, or, have your Gunsmith measure them for you and let us know.
 
OK, here are some measurements taken with my dial micrometer:
Barrel grooves: .354"
Chamber mouths on cylinder: .356" on two chambers; .3555" on the other four.

My dial micrometer doesn't really measure to ten-thousandths. Four chamber mouths were less than .356", but more than .355". Calling them .3555".
Bob
 
OK, W.E.G. they are reloads, but they shoot and have shot very well in my other .357s. That's my baseline. If this gun needs ammo that's custom crafted for it alone, then it's a gun I don't care to own.
Bob

On edit: If you meant something else, please explain.
 
Since you reload, why not find what works for it?

My wifes 586 load is very different than my Redhawk which is different than our Blackhawk load.

I always thought one of the perks of reloading was "fine tuning" your own "speciality ammo" without the price.
But, to each their own.

If you decide you want to move that inaccurate paperweight (just kidding)
 
Kanook, I've tried that. One thing that seemed to help was partially resizing the cases; much like neck sizing rifle cases. Using cases fired in the 586, I'd only resize the cases part way. This made for a tighter fit in the chamber at the unsized case head end of the round while the resizing at the case mouth provided a good grip on the bullet.

This did appear to help. OTOH, ammo made this way wouldn't chamber in my other 357s. It got to be too much trouble keeping track of the 'special' 586 ammo, so I abandoned it. I had 6 other 357s at the time that didn't need this kind of babying to shoot well. It seemed stupid to devote the most time and attention to the one revolver that performed the worst. That's why the gun was never shot much.

Probably swapping it off is the best approach...but I pity the next guy.
Bob
 
Why not have a new cylinder fitted? Numrich lists them in stock for $136. I'd imagine it would cost you another $100 or so to have someone fit it.
Smith customer service seems to have an excellent rep. Maybe it's changed since you last had your revolver in to them? Might be worth a phone call at least.
 
You might find a load that shoots well in the 586, AND shoots well in your other guns.

Sometimes its easy, other times not so much.

The more guns you own, the more opportunities for tinkering, frustration, and success.

AMHIK. I've been collecting them for forty years.
Some days I feel like it would be easier if I only had my Model 10 and my Model 94.
 
Hi OrangePwrx9,



Had you been getting the poor results with Jacketed Bullets, or Lead?
 
Oyeboten: the gun has mostly shot lead wadcutters at .38 Spcl. velocities. Accuracy was mostly poor...4" to 6" at 25 yards. Yesterday I shot it with 125gr. and 158gr. JHPs in full power loads. If anything, accuracy was worse...and was ridiculous at 50 yds.

W.E.G.: I think I know what you mean. If I'd stopped back in the '70s when all I had was a Python and a Sec. Six, I probably would've been ahead of the game. With two winners in a row, I thought anyone can play this game. :rolleyes:

Chuck Perry: That's kinda what I thought would be the next most logical step. Thanks for confirming it. I'll give S&W a buzz in the morning and see if they're willing to tackle it. $200-300 for a new cylinder is steep enough, but it'll save the NYS gun swap paperwork hassle for what would be another unknown quantity. Just gotta make sure the guy who does it cares enough to do it right.

Bob
 
Last edited:
If I were going to have a new cylinder fitted, I'd be tempted to try out something a little different.

If sticking with .357-ish projectiles, perhaps a new cylinder in 9x23Win or .38Super? If you want to save $$$, maybe in 9mm. Moon clips would make for quick reloads.

A 5-shot 9x25Dillon would be...unique.

If willing to re-barrel, maybe a 5-shot 10mm, .44spl, or .45Colt?

IIRC, the L-frame has been chambered in .44spl and .40S&W.
 
My two cents. First off, if it's screwing up your brass, get a new cylinder. Seems S&W should do that, on their dime.
If they don't, I'd start looking at it for either a custom, or sell it.
586, according to Wikpedia anyway, became the most popular revolvers ever made, along with their cousins.

I bring that up, since others are easy to find, and should be relatively cheap, it may not be worth sinking money into. On the otherhand, you already have a trigger job, and excellent sites on the gun...

That said, if I REALLY wanted a gun to shoot, I'd send it to Jack Huntington
Advanced Gunsmithing, call Hamilton Bowen, Gary Reeder, and check into a few other of the great custom gunsmiths. The call would be worth the money, since they would know, or have some idea of what to do without looking at the gun, and, they can make stuff shoot that doesn't fit the classic, supertight required for accuracy type stuff.

You might have a barrel that wasn't the proper twist for what you are loading, or, it might have a bulge in it somewhere.

You sure the barrel isn't leaded up, and just needs cleaning?
 
Orange,

I know these guys mean well but from your description of the problems and what you've tried, just sell the (expletive deleted) thing. There are too many 586 Smiths out there that shoot just fine. Cut your losses (i.e. don't spend any more money on fixes) and sell that one and buy something else.

My $.02 worth,
Dave
 
First thing I`d do is clean the cyl , then get me a cheap micrometer .

Then a round jacketed .355 , .357, .358 bullet to use as a gage & see what the throats are .

Second I`d slug both ends of the barrel seperatly , the cone end is tuff, be imaganative.

make decision from there , if the cyl has problems & ya wanna keep it ,talk nice to S&W they may do it for ya !!

I know what ya gotta do to get a revolver in NYS , I feel for ya brother !!!!
 
Slugging the barrel from both ends as GP100man said might reveal something. I had a Ruger Security Six back when they first came out. That gun shot just as you describe the way yours does. Ended up that the bore was slightly smaller where the barrel screwed into the frame. Ruger replaced the barrel under warranty. The gun was a fantastic shooter when I got it back. I ended up trading it on a S&W 629 44 several years later. Who ever ended up with that gun got a real gem.
 
Slugging the barrel at both ends is something I hadn't thought of. I can see where haveing a too-tight bore at the forcing cone would screw up accuracy. I'll have to look into that. Thanks GP100man and plateshooter.

Dave and fox, I hear what you're saying. I'll probably start looking for a good 4" 686 anyway. But, it's a bit soon for a stubborn Kraut like me to give up.

Prosser, thanks for the gunsmith suggestions. I have no knowledge of who's doing good revolver work these days, so that helps a lot. Barrel's clean as a whistle, no lead that I can see. The lead target loads I've shot have all been low velocity (less than 800fps) and have never left lead in anything.
Bob
 
Lower pressure loads need soft bullets so they can obutrate & may help your situation, or uping the pressure a bit .

The hornady lead swc is as soft as they come.
 
Bob:
Your welcome. My first phone calls would be Jack Huntington 5302686877 and Gary Reeder . Explain your problem, and get their suggestions.
Jack once explained to me that with fairly sloppy tolerances, if setup right, you can get a loose gun to shoot REALLY well. You've already got a trigger job worth 100 bucks, and, the front site is probably close to that.
After that phone call, I'd call S&W and get a new cylinder put on the gun. When you get it back, see how it shoots. Most gunsmiths that are worth anything can't help themselves but do the little extra to get a gun to shoot...
 
OrangePwrx9,
You just might have to sell that revolver BUT only after you speak to S&W. Tell them the whole story like you told us and explain to them it NEVER shoot well. They will probably make it right this time even if they did drop the ball last time. Like said above, you already have a good sight and trigger job done, why not let them try to make things right?
 
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