S&W 649, The fury of hell in a J-frame.

[XD 45acp]

I been carrying a 638 j-frame for years (38spl +P). I saw a 649 j-frame in the LGS and it got my attention because it is 357 mag. Little heavier, but not enough to matter. So, I traded up. Got home and wanted to take the new one for a spin. First was 5 rnds of 38 wadcutters...Hmm, not too bad. The next was 5 rnds of 357 Mag Speer gold dots 158 grns. HOLY MOLEY! What a fire breathing, blast belching monster this thing is. The first 357 cylinder load full was uncomfortable, the second was rank. I had to give it a rest. The only other 357 I ever shot was a 6" Python, whew, I don't remember it being like this. Unleashing the fury of hell out of a J-frame is my only description. Man, what a radical little pig..... But I LIKE it !!

 

[cpt-t]

XD 45acp: I bet You do like your new 649 S&W 357 Mag J-Frame. I shoot a S&W 640-1 357 J-Frame and I have for several years. And I bet that the recoil with the stock wooden grips would be a handfull. I bought my 640-1 used and it had a set of Houge soft rubber grips on it, and the original wooden grips is the box. I tried the wooden grips once on a friend of mines 640-1 and did not like them using the +P 38Special loads or factory 357 MAG`s. I just could not get a good grip on the gun and they were not very comfortable. The Houge Soft Rubber Grips are just really great, and they made the Gun very comfortable to shoot. I used them for quite a while, and was very pleased with them. Untill I put on a set Crimson Trace Lazer Grips, that are the soft rubber grip models. That made my Gun just about perfect for me. I shoot mine alot and the gun has susprised me, that I can shoot it so well , because I never considered my self much of a pistol shot. I don`t guess your 649 or my 640 were ever very popular because you don`t see them being shot very often. But I truley like and enjoy mine very much. Best of luck to You:
ken

 

[19-3Ben]

I don`t guess your 649 or my 640 were ever very popular because you don`t see them being shot very often.

When it comes to J frames, they are carry guns so there is emphasis on weight. People are likely to shoot .38spl anyway, so they just end up buying the 642/442, 637, and 638 models because they are the same size, but lighter and less expensive.

I would be interested to know how many 642/442 models are sold per 640 that is sold.
That said, I love steel revolvers and the weight doesn't bother me. I like carrying my LCR, but the Speed Six that usually sits on my hip is perfectly comfy.

 

[WestKentucky]

I shot a buddy's 649 that he bought for his wife. It was break-in day and he ended up going back to Walmart for more 38s after we each put down a few cylinders of 357 in it. She has practiced with that gun a lot and has moved up from 38 to basically a +p+ loaded into a 357 case. We made a 500 rd run of those about 2 years ago and I still have about 200 of my half on the shelf. That load is a touch above starting load for 357 but barely over. My best description is that it's a real attention getter. It's not brutal like a full mag load, but it's well above a standard 38. It's got flash and blast but recoil is manageable.

 

[Deaf Smith]

XD,

I have two 640-1s, in .357, and yep, with full magnum loads they are bears. Used to have a 340PD also (12 oz or near it) and it was awful to shoot with magnum loads.

Hence either Cor-bon 158 gr. .38 LSWHP or Buffalo Bore 158 gr. LSWHP.

Even my 2 1/2 inch Combat Magnums don't use full .357 Mag. Loads.

Deaf

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I own and shoot a M640 which is very similar to your M649 and I don't find it uncomfortable to shoot. Of course I wouldn't want to shoot it all day long at the range but I have no problems with a box of ammo. (50 rounds) I'm using a set of Badger Custom Rosewood grips which seem to help reduce the felt recoil because of their design. I agree those small Service Grips are probably causing the discomfort especially since you are probably knocking your knuckle on the trigger guard. A different set of grips or a Tyler T-Grip will help a lot.
http://www.badgercustomgrips.com/custom-grips/smith-and-wesson/smith-wesson-j-frame-round.html

Just a hint, my M640 is scary accurate when shooting 145gr Winchester Silvertip .357 Magnum ammo. A few friends who have shot the same ammo in their J frames have had the same results. You might want to try some in your M649.

 

[bannockburn]

I have both a Model 649 and a Model 638. They're great little J frame snubbies and I have no desire to move up to a .357 in this frame size. My idea of a suitable .357 snubby would be a S&W Model 19.

 

[Waveski]

I am a J frame guy. My daily carry is a S&W m 60 dash something in 357. I never shoot 357 in that stainless J frame ; just don't care to. My SP101 , on the other hand , handles 357 nicely.

You have a great piece there. I suspect that you , like most of us , will settle towards 39+p.

 

[XD 45acp]

I agree those small Service Grips are probably causing the discomfort especially since you are probably knocking your knuckle on the trigger guard. A different set of grips or a Tyler T-Grip will help a lot.

Yes, it took the skin off the knuckle (the guard did), and then thanks to the wonderful world of blood thinners, spewed like Vesuvius. The grips was my doing, I should have shot it first. It came with bigger rubber grips, and being the 5'5" thin circus midget I am, I changed them to lower the footprint. I'm gonna try the rubber ones today and see if that don't ease it up a tad.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I shoot and carry the same Speer loads in my Ruger SP101 with a 3" barrel. I don't think I'd much enjoy them out of a j frame. I'd stick with 38 special +p's if it was me.

 

[BigG]

Every serious shooter eventually finds the j-frame DAO snubs and realizes he's found the best.

 

[XD 45acp]

Every serious shooter eventually finds the j-frame DAO snubs and realizes he's found the best.

I do believe you speakum truth Kimosabe. I am 50, and I have owned more handguns than than I can keep track of. I always go back to the J. This one has really captured the heart and it is the first time I feel "satisfied".

 

[5-SHOTS]

Those rubber grips will make a difference for sure. I owned a S&W 649-1 Bodyguard .38Spl and I've never shot it with its standard wood grips because I imagined what would have happened to my hand...
I shot multiple times 100 rounds of .357Mag per session from my Ruger SP101 DAO without much troubles using the standard rubber grips.
IMHO having the backstrap covered with something soft helps alot. That's why I think a standard Ruger LCR is considered more comfortable to shoot than a standard S&W 642.

 

[XD 45acp]

5-Shots, I do ok with the palm, It was the knuckle on the trigger guard that got me. Hopefully, the factory rubber grips drop it down enough so it don't happen. Might not totally eliminate it, but, if it would just lower it a bit, I'd be OK.

 

[5-SHOTS]

5-Shots, I do ok with the palm, It was the knuckle on the trigger guard that got me. Hopefully, the factory rubber grips drop it down enough so it don't happen.

Yes, they probably will solve you the trigger guard issue for the reason you mentioned. I experienced the trigger guard bite with a S&W 629 6'' wearing stock wood grips and I actually thought with a set of rubber Hogue it would not have happened.

The hang for the pinky I also think is very important with little snubs. I also remembered when I shot my Bodyguard without the backstrap covered (when using Hogue Bantam, for example) I gripped it so high that the hammer spur pinched my skin more than one time.

 

[XD 45acp]

Just went out back and erupted 5,... Oh, that's a 1000% better. Well, I guess this is where me and nastalgic old school grips part company. Dang I like this thing !!!

 

[Tallball]

It looks great! Now it's on my (long) wish list.

 

[Jim K]

Which is why my J frames are in .38 Special, and I don't even use hot loads in them. Some folks tell me that I should get a .357 but the simple fact is that I have little chance of getting off a fast followup shot with .357, nor could I stand up to the gun long enough in practice to become proficient with it. S&W made those guns to meet a demand from (IMHO) folks who didn't really think through what they were asking for.

Jim

 

[Deaf Smith]

These snubs below are easier to shoot (but not real easy) with .357 Magnum ammo, real .357s not 'mid range' ammo.

S&W 65 Ladysmith
Ruger GP-100
S&W 686
Ruger Speed Six.
S&W 66

And these below are no fun at all with the exception of the SP101, which is semi-hard to shoot.
S&W 640-1
Ruger SP101 DAO
S&W 60-1
Ruger SP101

And yea, they are all mine!


Deaf

 

[goon]

Smallest I'd go with any intention of shooting a full power .357 on a regular basis is the SP-101. I wouldn't mind a 640 or LCR in .357 though... but I'd plan to make my .357 use out of it extremely rare. As Jim K notes, the people who think a lot of .357 in a gun that size is a good idea only think that until they try it. Even with the SP-101, I shoot a lot more .38 Special in practice. But the extra weight of a 640 combined with .38 Special... that shouldn't be too bad of a combination.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have shot Airlite J frames with .357 Magnum ammo and I have no urge to do so again. Shooting full power .357 Magnum ammo in a 12oz revolver is just too much for me. The all steel J frames on the other hand are a totally different story. At almost twice the weight, 23oz, they are not uncomfortable for me to shoot.

I'm a little confused, I often see posts saying the owner of an SP101 will shoot full power .357 Magnum ammo but not in an all steel S&W J frame. I have a feeling many have never shot the J frame because they are very similar except I feel the S&W revolver is nicer. With the same barrel lengths the SP101 weighs 25.0 oz and the J frame weighs 23.0 oz. Both are a far cry from the 12oz Arilite and both are fairly easy to shoot.

 

[Blade First]

"It was the knuckle on the trigger guard that got me."

Do try the Tyler T-grip on your J-frame. It fills in that gap behind the trigger guard and keeps it from recoiling directly into the knuckle. I carry a Model 60 with ivory grips some in hotter weather and even with .38+P loads it minds its manners at the range.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by XD 45acp: I saw a 649 j-frame .... HOLY MOLEY! What a fire breathing, blast belching monster this thing is.

Yep.

Around five decades ago, Elmer Keith, who gave us both the .44 Magnum and the .41, wrote about the FBI's testing of the Smith and Wesson Registered Magnum with the 3 1/2 inch barrel in an indoor range some decades earlier. He said that the flash and blast were too much even for seasoned shooters. Now, the loads of the day were hotter than what you can buy now, but that should tell us something. And those were big, heavy N-Frame revolvers!

The only other 357 I ever shot was a 6" Python, whew, I don't remember it being like this.

It wasn't. The gun was much heavier, and the barrel, much longer.

Unleashing the fury of hell out of a J-frame is my only description.

That's a pretty good description.

And the real question is "why?". Not only will the gun be painful to shoot, it will be impossible to control in rapid fire in a defensive encounter. Add to that the fact that if you shoot it very often you are likely to sustain permanent injury to the nerves, joints, and tendons. All for no reason.

This post from 2008 is worth reading and heeding. The short version is that .357 loads are a very poor choice for a light snubby, and that .38s will serve the shooter much better.

Responding to this comment from Member TAB,

"I don't think the bad guy will notice the difference between a 357 and a 38 +p but you will...."

....member S&Wfan replied:

IMHO, this is the best advice you've received, yet cloaked in wisdom and simplicity.

I WISH EVERYONE WHO WAS GOING TO CARRY CONCEALED WAS FORCED TO SHOOT A FEW BOWLING PIN MATCHES, or shoot some IDPA or ICORE matches!

1. You'll learn immediately that you're gonna get waxed BAD, if you thumb-cock every round. It is better to learn it here than learn OJT with a thug who is trying really hard to kill you before you can kill him!!!

2. You'll learn to shoot as fast as you can, but with utter accuracy (pins approximate the vital heart lung area of a person, and are set chest high at TEN YARDS).

3. You'll learn to shoot double action (long, full stroke) only . . . just like you'll instinctively do if you ever have to shoot it out with someone who is also firing fast to kill you!

4. You'll learn to properly handle a handgun under stress, and do it smoothly at speed!


MOST IMPORTANTLY . . .

5. You'll learn that too powerful a load in a handgun that's too light will make you LOSE when you go up against other competitors . . . or against thugs too.


BACK TO TAB'S COMMENTS . . .

Those flame-throwing, hard-kicking .357 snubbies are gonna twist the gun to weird angles in your grip, causing the remaining shots to be off target due to improper grip. They'll also kick hard and hurt your hand like hell, and take MUCH longer between rounds to get the subsequent shots off! And yes, you'll have a much poorer chance to walk away from a real fight because of your chosen gun (a super-light snubbie) and too stout-kicking of a load!


YOU DO NOT NEED A .357 TO DO THE JOB!

With a lightweight snubbie, make mine a .38 Special. Easy to draw, faster followup times, and just as deadly when those bullets go where they should go!

--My 15 oz. Model 37 Airweight goes with me in my front pocket. Right now it is loaded with "weak" 148 grain flat-nose "Wadcutters." These rounds are soft-kicking, super accurate . . . and cut an incredible .357" diameter blood channel.

My 23 oz. steel Model 36 sometimes rides in a pocket holster too, other times in a belt holster. However . . .

IF I CAN CARRY MORE GUN, it will be in a belt or shoulder holster, in either .357 or .45ACP. It will be a heavier, more substantial gun

I have a Centennial in .38 special, it it is enough of a handful for me. I don't like practicing with it because my hand hours after around a box and a half.

I did mention the cumulative effects of recoil in terms of permanent damage.

I have a heavier Model 60 with a 3 inch barrel. I keep .38 Specials in it.

My wife just bought a Ruger SP101. It will be fired with .38 Specials.

The only firearm that I have that I would put magnum loads in is my Model 686+ with a five inch barrel. I have fired Magnum loads in a long-barreled N-Frame with no discomfort.

But I most certainly would not consider, even for a moment, firing either one of them in the house with magnum loads.

It is important to not confuse the boom and blast at the muzzle, or the recoil, for that matter, with effectiveness. A human target is not a water jug, and more commotion in the defender's hand will just work against the defender and not for him.

Shoot .38s in it.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Long time ago I had a Colt Defender, .45 ACP.

Nice super lightweight .45 'snubby' auto.

I shot Cor-Bon +P 200 gr 'flying ashtrays' out of it.

Barley could hold on to that gun.

And of course the S&W 340PD, .357, with 125gr JHP .357 magnum loads. Felt like someone had hit my hand each time with a ping-pong paddle as hard as they could!

Lesson to learn... you can overpower a gun so much it is worthless!

So now if i was to get a Colt Defender, I'd use the most sedate .45 ACP loads, and if another 340 PD, I'd use lower powered .38s (and they would still be kind of hard to control one handed!)

Now those two guns were very expensive and to just use low powered loads make them, well, pointless, right?

Hence if I want a real .357 or real .45 ACP, I go to steel frames.

Deaf

 

[goon]

Using a lower power load in a .357 doesn't make it pointless.
When I'm in the woods, I carry full power 158 grain JSP's or Buffalo Bore hard cast 180 grain loads in my 3" SP-101. They're as good as I can make it for defense against a bear (but I've never been threatened by any bear I've seen, FWIW). When I carry it for defense, I use Speer 135 grain GDHP's in their short barrel load. When I shoot it for fun, it's whatever cast lead bullet I can get cheap over a modest charge of Unique.

The versatility of a the .357 is what makes it worth the cost.

I also added Hogue rubber grips to mine. If my only choice was the issue grips on it, I'd have sold it too. Good grips are essential on any small .357, or probably on any J-frame over .22 caliber.