Doesnt anyone else think that $160 is kinda pricey for a factory to refinish one of a its own guns? Ive heard numerous stories about companies providing this service free of charge. I mean wont a regular refinishing company do it for less than that?
S&W says "J-Frame 357 is for carry not shooting"!
- Thread starter WebHobbit
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glocksman
Member
Coincidentally, that's WH's preferred load.
And if I had to guess, I'd say he put 600-700 rounds through it in the time he's had the gun.
Me, I have a Centennial in .38 Special, and I'm wondering about the cylinder play. The cylinder moves back enough to almost double the gap between the forcing cone and the cylinder.
This one's had about 1000 rounds put through it, 300 of which were the +P 'FBI Load' or +P Hydra-Shoks that are my carry ammo.
Anyone know the factory spec for end play and cylinder gap on J-Frames?
Ledbetter
Member
Jim Keenan knows
As my ever-more-faulty brain recalls, it is around .004-.007".
As my ever-more-faulty brain recalls, it is around .004-.007".
TonyB
Member
I have an SP101 BECAUSE I want to shoot it!!
Inever bought into that "carried alot shot a little" axium.
If you're going to carry ,you BETTER shoot it alot.How else will you KNOW you can hit anything w/ it.
The SP is heavier,but I carry mine everyday,and you get used to it.
I had a S&W mod 38 airweight,and I didn't trust it to hold up,so I sold it.I may get one in the future,maybe.
Also I don't have enough money to own guns I don't shoot.Guns are MADE to be shot, IMO.
Inever bought into that "carried alot shot a little" axium.
If you're going to carry ,you BETTER shoot it alot.How else will you KNOW you can hit anything w/ it.
The SP is heavier,but I carry mine everyday,and you get used to it.
I had a S&W mod 38 airweight,and I didn't trust it to hold up,so I sold it.I may get one in the future,maybe.
Also I don't have enough money to own guns I don't shoot.Guns are MADE to be shot, IMO.
Tamara
Senior Member
I shoot the bejabbers out of my .38 J-frames; I don't know about y'all...
JohnBT
Member
"S&W was referring to the fact that j-frames main purpose is to be used for carry and not as everyday target pistols. Maybe I'm slow, but I thought that was obvious."
I am slow, but it's still obvious
Little gun and big bang means somethings got to give - sooner or later. I don't believe, for instance, that my 442 is going to last very long shooting +P lswchp through it. So be it - as the old saying goes - use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.
John
I am slow, but it's still obvious
Little gun and big bang means somethings got to give - sooner or later. I don't believe, for instance, that my 442 is going to last very long shooting +P lswchp through it. So be it - as the old saying goes - use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.
John
WebHobbit
Member
And once again I don't think even 600-700 rounds of magnum since 1996 is treating it as a "target pistol".
Do you?
Do you?
Rob96
Member
If you are suppose to practice with what you carry, both gun and load, I guess that leaves the 640 out according to S&W. The gun is not up to the task.
GLOCKSMAN
That's prob cyl endshake-- relatively easy to fix--
The yoke liner can be peened with the right tools -- ten minute job, or places like Brownells & Power sell a selection of washers to place between the end of the yoke inside the frame channel -- easy to do--
It should be fixed as it will only get worse and damage to your bbl at the forcing cone can result as well as leadspitting and eventual jamming between the cyl and bbl--
That's prob cyl endshake-- relatively easy to fix--
The yoke liner can be peened with the right tools -- ten minute job, or places like Brownells & Power sell a selection of washers to place between the end of the yoke inside the frame channel -- easy to do--
It should be fixed as it will only get worse and damage to your bbl at the forcing cone can result as well as leadspitting and eventual jamming between the cyl and bbl--
For the prob described--endshake--(loosness) of the cyl itself and play btw the cyl and bbl--you would need cylinder bearings--
They (or spacers) fill the area that has worn down between the end of the cyl and the yoke--
The hollow shaft of the yoke that mounts the cylinder needs to be stretched by peening or the slack taken up by these spacers or "bearings".
When you dismount the yoke from the gun and slide the cyl off the yoke -- this is the area you are interested in-- between the hollow part of the yoke where the cyl is mounted -- so the "bearings" should have a flat - doughnut shape to them.
I've never used them --but my understanding is that these cyl endshake kits come with pretty good instructuions.
I was an armorer and we had an insert that was nearly the inside diameter of the hollow portion of the yoke-- This was inserted to suport the yoke and a tool (a flattended non-sharp copper tubing cutter) was used to peen the yoke thereby extending it by forcing the metal to flow outward-- Worked great and fast -- but you need the centerpin//yoke liner support tool/piece to do it without bushings or "bearings".
Yoke endshake is when the yoke is loose where it attaches at the bottom of the revolver-- Older revolvers(Smiths) just needed a larger Yoke screw to fix this or a little hammer work to the end of the "mushroom" attachment area on the lower portion of the Yoke.
If the cyl is loose when the gun is closed (Forward and back motion--not rotational) then it is probably cyl endshake--
If the cyl and yoke assembly is loose when you open the cylinder then it is yoke endshake--
Long post but I hope it clears up you question--
Didn't want to confuse the issue --
The problem that <GLOCKSMAN> described is allmost certainly Cyl endshake and needs Cyl Washers of "Bearings"
They (or spacers) fill the area that has worn down between the end of the cyl and the yoke--
The hollow shaft of the yoke that mounts the cylinder needs to be stretched by peening or the slack taken up by these spacers or "bearings".
When you dismount the yoke from the gun and slide the cyl off the yoke -- this is the area you are interested in-- between the hollow part of the yoke where the cyl is mounted -- so the "bearings" should have a flat - doughnut shape to them.
I've never used them --but my understanding is that these cyl endshake kits come with pretty good instructuions.
I was an armorer and we had an insert that was nearly the inside diameter of the hollow portion of the yoke-- This was inserted to suport the yoke and a tool (a flattended non-sharp copper tubing cutter) was used to peen the yoke thereby extending it by forcing the metal to flow outward-- Worked great and fast -- but you need the centerpin//yoke liner support tool/piece to do it without bushings or "bearings".
Yoke endshake is when the yoke is loose where it attaches at the bottom of the revolver-- Older revolvers(Smiths) just needed a larger Yoke screw to fix this or a little hammer work to the end of the "mushroom" attachment area on the lower portion of the Yoke.
If the cyl is loose when the gun is closed (Forward and back motion--not rotational) then it is probably cyl endshake--
If the cyl and yoke assembly is loose when you open the cylinder then it is yoke endshake--
Long post but I hope it clears up you question--
Didn't want to confuse the issue --
The problem that <GLOCKSMAN> described is allmost certainly Cyl endshake and needs Cyl Washers of "Bearings"
WebHobbit
Member
I called today and spoke to the guy who gave the estimate. I told him that I have only 500 magnums through the gun & I am the original owner.
He reiterated that the J-Frames "are for personal protection & are not intended to take to the range and shoot magnums a lot". I told him that I have carried it a LOT more than I have shot it.
He asked me what the 500 magnums were & I told him mostly Winchester 110 jhps. He said "that's a law-enforcement type round...it's pretty HOT!".
I asked him if he thought going to a heavy slightly slower round like the Winchester 145 grain Silvertip would be any easier on the gun and he said "yeah, those might be a little better".
He said he will see if the Warranty department will cover the barrel turning as per the lifetime repair policy.
He should be giving me a call back...hopefully soon.
Sounds hopeful. You might want to refurbish under warranty and then sell. Some of the medium frame revolvers aren't much larger and would hold-up a bit better. I know that my round butt K-frame is just a tad larger than my dads model 60. I suspect that some L-Frame and Ruger GP-100's would be in the same size range. Of course you already mentioned the SP-101. My wife's gun has yet to venture beyond 38+P.
I'm perplexed. This business of carrying one thing and practicing with another is counterintuitive and makes no darn sense. I carry a S&W Model 66 F-Comp loaded with .357 Magnum hollowpoints. I have shot a fair number of .38 Speical +Ps just for fun, plinking and target practice but I also shoot ~1000 rounds/month of .357 Magnum JHPs through it. There is a differnece between shooting the .38s and the .357 Magnums in a k-frame. How on earth would shooting even a steady diet of .38's in practice prepare me for using .357 Magnum rounds in in a true self defense situation? I've always heard, "practice with what you carry" - still seems like the best rule to me. Dennis
WebHobbit
Member
DennisE-- what is your carry load? According to Smith any of the light bullet 110-125 or so are gonna have the blow-torch effect on the forcing cone.
Just a little info. The first "sp101 was called the "Pocket Rocket" made by Rick Devoid. He converted the origiginal sp from 38 to 357. I had an sp101, sold it to finance another project. I liked it. I do still have my 442 and have no complaints about it. I hope that they cover the repairs for you . Good luck.
Yes!
On S/W's own website thats the price for a satin nickel refinish NOT just the $95 bead blast needed for stainless guns. Guy your talking to is apparently pretty clueless as to whats going on. I'd ask for someone else.
I used to bravely rave about S/W's service even when most folks hated them. Now I just got done wrapping up 2 guns to go back to them because they could not do the job right the first time
Of course Kates always so helpfull, "Sir just send it back" -again.. WebHobbit
Member
An update:
I finally got the gun back after telling them to forget the "pay work".
The person I talked to before they shipped it back said they "thought warranty dept. did fix the forcing cone".
They never did confirm that they fixed the thing! They never even mentioned the warranty repair on the paper that was packed in the box when I got it back!
I am NOT impressed with S&W's customer service.
Close examination of the gun does seem to indicate they "turned the barrel". The forcing cone does look nice and even now. Looks "new" I guess.
They didn't even bother to clean the gun...there were still "blue wax" flecks all over the barrel. I'm guessing this was some kinda lube they used when they took the barrel on and off?
At any rate I have lost all confidence in the piece and I will be selling it.
I am carrying an SP101 now.
I finally got the gun back after telling them to forget the "pay work".
The person I talked to before they shipped it back said they "thought warranty dept. did fix the forcing cone".
They never did confirm that they fixed the thing! They never even mentioned the warranty repair on the paper that was packed in the box when I got it back!
I am NOT impressed with S&W's customer service.
Close examination of the gun does seem to indicate they "turned the barrel". The forcing cone does look nice and even now. Looks "new" I guess.
They didn't even bother to clean the gun...there were still "blue wax" flecks all over the barrel. I'm guessing this was some kinda lube they used when they took the barrel on and off?
At any rate I have lost all confidence in the piece and I will be selling it.
I am carrying an SP101 now.
Old Pa
Member
My briefcase gun is a 3" .357Mag Model 60. It's the "Jenny" gun, commemorating my sweet departed brittany spaniel. It's got Pachmayr grippers, new light springs and action smoothing, and the forcing cone has been extended. My .357Mag load for it is a 125gr XTP in front of a moderate load of Unique (developed by observing pressure signs) anf Federal small pistol primers. Probably only 200 of these loads through it; establish 50 yard zero and then recycle loaded rounds at end of each practice. Mostly it gets 160 gr. lead Keith types in front of moderate 2400 charges; easier on everyone. 1500 rounds and no problems! This is, however, a light .357 and my most specialized .357.
Not a bad idea, actually. The SP 101 can take THOUSANDS of full powered .357 magnum rounds, and look like new despite being a small framed revolver. One of the local ranges has rented the same SP 101 out for nearly 10 years, and lots of shooters put magnums in it according to the range owner. It still looks and shoots like new, except that the trigger is now REAL SMOOTH from being pulled a lot.
Personally, I own a SP 101 and its a great little pistol. I don't shoot too many magnums in it many because recoil is nasty with that little itty bitty grip and 25 ounce frame (I have the short 2.25" barrel). You really can't go wrong with an SP 101......your S&W is a nice pistol BUT I personally wouldn't like having to worry about shooting it little and carrying it a lot. A gun that can't take a reasonable diet of practice loads IMO is not well suited for me. YMMV
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