S&W "Bodyguard" frame -- Anyone use SA?

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ArmedBear

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I was looking to get another J-frame snubbie, and thought about getting something different. So I looked at the 638 and some other new and old "bodyguard" guns.

I decided to skip them, since it's not easy or convenient to cock the hammer. It didn't seem like a feature I'd ever use.

Does anyone ever use their 49/638/438/649 to shoot single action?

What benefit does the shrouded hammer really offer?
 
What benefit does the shrouded hammer really offer?

Well it lets you get max. accuracy out of Bodyguard when target shooting. I own a S&W 649 that I carry almost daily & before that it was S&W 642. To me there isn't that much difference between them though one is shrouded and the other is hammer less. I changed to the 649 because it is stainless & the extra weight has less recoil. The shrouded hammer is handy for pocket carry as it doesn't snag like a S&W 36. If you get a chance try a Bodyguard before you write them off. I used to think they was the most ugly revolver ever made. There is a reason they have been in production as long as they have ..........they do perform!
 
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I've owned Bodyguards, and used to shoot them SA whenever I wanted to take a longer, slower, or more accurate shot. Can't do that with the Centennials. I now own a Colt Cobra with shroud, and I shoot it SA when target shooting. I can do head shots easily at 20 yards on SA. Most snubs are that accurate, if the shooter gets up to speed with them. Little tougher with DA, although I seem to be able to two-stage a DA pretty good for "simulated" SA trigger pull.
 
Can't do that with the Centennials.

Uh, I've shot regulation NRA bullseye targets at 25 yards with mine.

Hit them, too.:D

I can do head shots easily at 20 yards on SA.

I have compared my exposed-hammer J with the Centennial, and there's surprsingly little difference in the groups I can shoot offhand. Sight radius is the limiting factor, IMO. I can make "head shots" with a 642 at 20 yards, too, on paper -- now doing it under extreme stress is another issue entirely, but it's one that SA wouldn't solve.:)

The problem I have with the Bodyguards is that the hammer is so hard to cock, that I don't think I'd EVER use the feature in a defensive scenario.

That's what I was wondering about. Does anyone find it easy enough to cock the things that they think they'd ever use the single action feature?
 
Armed Bear,

Don't use SA for self-defense. With all the adrenaline pumping in such as situation, its easy to accidentally fire...when you did not intend to. That said...there may be a very remote chance that you need to take a precise head shot.... Again, such a situation would be very very rare. (I would go for center mass shot.) Nevertheless, I want to have that option: hence the choice of Bodyguard 638 over 642.

Ok...here's the real reason for the 638: When you want to impress a girl with your marksmanship in the range...shoot SA.
 
if you really want to impress her...do the same in DA :)

there is a lot of money to be made shooting against folks who don't think a snubby is accurate and folks who think shooting it SA is more accurate than DA :D

i don't let them feel the action on my 642 before we shoot for money and i don't tell them about my past life shooting PPC (all DA out to 50 yards)
 
if you really want to impress her...do the same in DA

That's what I was going to say.

I put all 5 in less than a 2" circle at about 10 paces, not to impress my wife, but to show her that it wasn't that hard, even with a light snubbie, if you learn to squeeze the trigger straight back. She is learning to shoot DA well (I've had her use a Model 10 and a 686, not the Airweight, to get a good feel for DA before tackling the light little thing).

Don't use SA for self-defense. With all the adrenaline pumping in such as situation, its easy to accidentally fire...when you did not intend to.

Agreed.
 
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O.K, some of us can manage a DA trigger very well (after 40+ years of shooting handguns, for me, I do o.k.), but let's assume the vast majority of revolver handlers haven't got that much trigger time. For most people, expecting to get the same groups with DA that they might get with SA probably is not going to happen. I do not want to give everyone the impression that they can pick up a DA snubnose revolver and do the same groups that they can do with single action shooting. So where does the "truth" fall on this one? Do we NEVER use single action if we have it available on a gun (S&W 38, 49, 638, 649, etc), or do we just get the Centennial and practice, practice? I just like having the option; it may give me an advantage just once in my lifetime. Should we go around with a cocked revolver in a self defense situation? No. Might we EVER find a time when a careful, SA aimed shot saves our life? Slim chance, buy maybe..........
 
I dont think SA has any business in defensive shooting be it practice or the real shebang. I have a Model 60 38 with a full spur hammer that I never shoot in single action. I have before but only as a novelty. Real practice is done DAO. I dont know why I dont get a 640 or a 649 but there is something about that 60 that makes me not want to get rid of it or modify it. Its tough to tell people that they should only ever practice and plan on using their revolver double action only when there is that exposed hammer just sticking out waiting to be cocked. I am a firm believer in DAO. Master one trigger type and dont look back. You can shoot dang near just as accuate in DA as SA if you practice it.

And I think making headshots at 25 is a pipedream at best in a defense situation. If your planning on something like that you best be carrying your target pistol for your CCW instead.
 
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I like the SA option. As a trail gun option in the hottest of summer weather, I feel better about having the option as I've hunted with large revolvers in SA.
 
there is a lot of money to be made shooting against folks who don't think a snubby is accurate and folks who think shooting it SA is more accurate than DA
I don't like DA but I practice it enough to be decent.

At present I have a personal challenge, that I've tried 2-3 times.
Standing, two hands, 50 shots, SA, at 52 yards, with a 2 inch S&W J Frame, at a 2x2 foot steel target. I prefer all shots be within the 18 inch silhouette but, for now, I accept just hitting the steel.
52yards38Smith.gif

I hadn't tried it for a while.
A few days ago the temperature was 103, so I thought I'd try a quick 50 rounds and call it a day.
Except for sweat dripping on my glasses the little Smith was doing OK until shots number 41 and 42 missed steel.
I figure as soon as I get 50/50 SA shots on the steel, I'll try 50/50 DA.
52yards38Smith2.gif

Yes the small guns are accurate.

And to answer the question, "Anyone use SA?". Yes, me.:)
 
Another reason the ability to shoot SA comes in handy is during load development. It's easier to test the accuracy of a new load I'm working up shooting SA than DA.

M2 Carbine,
If that's your personal range I'm very envious. It looks like a very nice place to shoot. I live within the town limits so I can't shoot in my backyard.
 
Nice shooting M2 Carbine. That's not a Bodyguard frame gun, though.

I dont think SA has any business in defensive shooting be it practice or the real shebang.

I agree. I'll add that one reason some people think that most people "can't shoot DA well" is because THEY haven't practiced.

There's not a skill in the world that improves without practice. Nobody ever got stronger by not exercising because they don't like exercise. Nobody ever got better at anything by avoiding it.

Another reason the ability to shoot SA comes in handy is during load development.

I don't do real load development in an Airweight.

I am not asking about whether single action has any value. I use some revolvers that ONLY shoot single action.:)

I'm asking specifically if the awkward and very-hard-to-use single action on the Bodyguard-frame snubbies has any value on a defensive pocket gun.:)

The Bodyguard frame is this one:
163438_thumb.jpg


smee781- What do you use it for? Have you learned to cock it quickly? Is there some trick to it, that I didn't figure out?
 
ArmedBear: ...I am not asking about whether single action has any value. I use some revolvers that ONLY shoot single action.

I'm asking specifically if the awkward and very-hard-to-use single action on the Bodyguard-frame snubbies has any value on a defensive pocket gun.

The ability to take the most accurate shot possible is always of value on any firearm.

Maybe a better question is "why choose the Bodyguard over the Centennial design?"

My answer would be that the Bodyguard gives you the option to shoot single action, while the Centennial design does not. While this may not have any impact on gunfights at three yards, it does have value when shooting at "targets" some distance away. The DA only Centennial design can't come close to the distance accuracy potential of the Bodyguard.

Another benefit of the Bodyguard design is that the "hump" keeps the gun in almost perfect position in your pocket.

Centennial's won't accumulate lint in the frame (hammer recess) like the Bodyguard does, but a quick pass with a Q Tip makes that a non issue for me.




.
 
I have a 49 I bought new in 1970.

It's been been shot way more SA then DA by a large margine.

It's quite easy to cock.

Used to win beer money shooting it at 100 yards.

rc
 
I have a 649 .357 that my father bought new. The SA pull is so crisp and clean that it feels a lot lighter than the measured 2.25 pounds. I would have guessed 1.5 to 1.75 before I measured it. There is no way I'd try to use it SA in a defensive situation. You barely start to apply pressure and click.

It's better than most of my rifles, except maybe a Cooper and the ones with Jewell triggers.

John
 
I also have no problem cocking the hammer one handed. I do have very small hands though, and this makes everything about a J frame operate nice for me.
 
I've read a number of comments and opinions in this thread which seemed reasonable and with which I found myself nodding in general agreement.

The debate between DA & SA mode practicality for the J-frames offers much the same advantages/disadvantages as when full-size traditional double action revolvers are involved. The little J-frames come with their own added considerations, though, involving a smaller grip, shorter trigger reach, lighter weight (more felt recoil) and shorter sight radius (not to mention less refined sights).

Cops who carried revolvers as service weapons remember the significant majority of their training and shooting was done in DA mode.

A number of those of us who carried revolvers in that role can probably also remember occasional situations where a cop's revolver which was cocked into SA mode resulted in a ND in the stress of the moment, and a number of those instances may have also involved the tragic death of someone who was not supposed to be shot.

There was some understandable reasoning involved when some LE agencies eventually had their revolvers modified to DAO. FWIW, the CHP here in CA transitioned from revolvers to semiauto pistols back around '89, and they still order their M4006TSW's, as they did their previous M4006's, with spurless hammers which requires that the initial shot is fired in DA mode. There was reportedly specific reasoning for their choice to order their pistols with spurless hammers (the 4006 comes standard with a spurred hammer).

The use of SA mode in a revolver may benefit folks who enjoy target shooting, the ability to make a 'precision shot' (hunting, load development, etc) or an enjoyable 'plinking' session.

I like my older 649 (.38 Spl model) quite a bit. Its weight was the reason I originally ordered my first 642-1, though, and why of the 5 J-frames I presently own, 4 of them have alloy frames. ;) Oddly enough, those 4 alloy-framed guns are all DAO, too. I foolishly allowed a couple of excellent steel 36's to slip through my hands over the years, unfortunately.

Now, I grew up learning to shoot SA revolvers and SA pistols. It was with some small amount of skepticism that I finally picked up my first trigger-cocking wheelguns. :neener: (Which was later revisited when I first started using traditional double action pistols, but that's another story.)

All of the courses of fire in which I train and qualify using my J-frames are done effectively and well when using DA. I also do some longer distance shooting with my J-frames to practice both my DA & SA shooting skills, but my main emphasis for defensive skills/tactics practice is done using DA. I like DA/DAO for defensive shooting training & practice.

I carry my 642-1's or my M&P 340 much more often than my 649 nowadays, simply because of how the lighter weight guns carry when used with my chosen carry methods.

I still like my 649 a lot, and someday I wouldn't mind picking up an Airweight Bodyguard (638) just to complement it.

In the hands of a skilled and experienced revolver shooter a J-frame can exhibit very surprising accuracy, DA or SA.

Most folks do find them harder to shoot accurately than larger size revolvers, though. Takes some work.
 
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just as an aside...i would never recommend that anyone learn a DA trigger stroke on a j-frame. i always start folks off on a K-frame.

besides the better handle, sights and weight...the leaf spring is much easier to manage than the J-frame's coil spring
 
just as an aside...i would never recommend that anyone learn a DA trigger stroke on a j-frame. i always start folks off on a K-frame.

Agree. First gun I handed my wife, a new DA shooter, was an old Model 10. She likes the L-frame, too.

That said, the 642 is pretty smooth for a little gun. I think it's a little easier to shoot DA than an equivalent DA/SA revolver.
 
I like the option of having the ability to shoot single action with a snag proof snub revolver. I can envision using the single action trigger in a situation where I am not rapidly defending myself, but perhaps trying to make an accurate shot to stop an armed robbery or defend someone else who is in distress from attacker. I even read one of Ayoobs account of an off duty cop who put down a bad guy with a well placed shot from a 357 magnum fired single action. I just dont buy the notion that you should only master double action shooting with a snub revolver.
 
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