S&W FPC and new folding 9mm PCC?

[TarDevil]

It will reduce my bank account when it's offered in 10mm.
I've got lots of 9mm handgun options, a pistol is handier in CQB, and recoil is not an issue.
A 10mm pistol can be a challenge, but the new S&W is a platform that makes 10mm manageable.

But you already knew that.

 

[chicharrones]

I liked the Sootch vid because he showed the disassembly . . .

Thanks for that. It helps immensely.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Had a SIG MPX; nicely made, but the recoil wasn't that different from my blowbacks, and the SIG is locked breech. Mine was never reliable, and the $60 magazines were a real buzz kill.
We're avoiding another side folding gun, the Scorpion, which has a side folding stock, but more steel mechanical bits. It can be fired stock folded, and it really is a subgun in the Czech Republic. It does use proprietary magazines, but they are relatively cheap.
Had two Sub 2000; really wanted them, and then wasn't sure why. Ergonomically, they are a disaster; I could never get low enough to use the sights. But they worked, and were stone safe when folded.
I'd like to handle the new Smith, and PCCs make all the sense in the world. Realize Smith has to make a buck, but half poly guns (let's try to make some kind of distinction between quality guns that use some poly, and poly guns simply built down to a price) don't much honor S&W's heritage.
Moon

 

[marvin02]

Thanks for that. It helps immensely.

Disassembly starts at 14:20 for those who just want a peek inside.

 

[Speedo66]

No sights, what’s up with that? Not everyone wants a red dot, they don’t give you a choice.

For those who want it in 10MM, I can say that the blowback action in my 9mm K-T S2K gives you a pretty good face slap when you shoot it, 10MM might be very uncomfortable.

 

[BreechFace]

No sights, what’s up with that? Not everyone wants a red dot, they don’t give you a choice.

For those who want it in 10MM, I can say that the blowback action in my 9mm K-T S2K gives you a pretty good face slap when you shoot it, 10MM might be very uncomfortable.

I think it's an error not providing irons on the S&W as well, to me this carbine is really a travel companion and being away from home and an optic craps the bed, what then. I upgraded my Keltec irons, even though I use a red dot for all of the shooting I do, but having a good set of irons on the carbine for backup is a good idea in my mind.

I know that Keltec has been rumored to be considering a 10mm and 45ACP in the Sub2000. But it's just been rumors. Keltec was asking their Facebook group (or something like that) what magazine compatibility do people want to see if they came out with a 10mm and 45acp. For me it would have to be a Glock compatible as I would like it to share mags with the 20/40.

I would buy a 10mm in a heartbeat, but no doubt I would have my reservations on how much weight they would need to include for the buffer to handle the additional force and how the recoil impulse would be on such a light carbine; but no doubt I would buy one.

It would be easy for S&W to delve into the 10mm and 45acp as well now that they came out with their M&P in 10mm.

 

[someguy2800]

No sights, what’s up with that? Not everyone wants a red dot, they don’t give you a choice.

For those who want it in 10MM, I can say that the blowback action in my 9mm K-T S2K gives you a pretty good face slap when you shoot it, 10MM might be very uncomfortable.

You can buy any manor of picatinny fixed sights, flip up sights, tritium sights, offset sights, carry handle or whatever you may wish for and put them on. If they include sights then they are just going to roll that into the price and everyone will be paying for them whether they want them or not.

 

[KYamateur]

I saw one for sale locally today for $599. It seems like a reasonable price. It looks a little awkward but it grows on you. The grip is pretty much exactly like the pistol. I wish they would have changed it a little for a more original look.

 

[marvin02]

Using as much as they could of the M&P handgun tech for the firing group probably saves money both in development & manufacture. It also gives current M&P users a familiar interface. The bolt hold open/release looks like the biggest negative to me.

 

[Capybara]

The more I think about it, this gun, for me, would just be a fun gun, camping gun, plinker. I have serious guns. This isn't a serious gun, this should be a fun gun. Perfect for first time rifle shooters.
It seems that lot of posters here and elsewhere expect this gun to be perfect to address all needs, in all calibers. It's not, it's a fun little folding, novelty PCC. Yes, has some issues just like my M&P12 Bullpump but overall, I like it and it works well for the purpose I need it for. Blowback is needed likely for design and to hit a price point. Not crazy about the charging handle but this wouldn't be my HD or SHTF gun,
it's for a fun afternoon at the range. I've noticed that whenever a gun is introduced, especially one that's a bit out of the box, people tend to whinge and complain a lot.

Why does it look weird/ugly?
Why isn't it in 10mm?
Why is the stock so thick when it's folded?
Why is it blowback?
Why doesn't it take Glock mags (this one should be painfully obvious, it's because Smith is a large corporation that makes pistols that take their own mags. Why would anyone at Smith suggest that their new PCC use a competitors magazines? That would be corporate suicide, duh. If you're KelTec, that's not a factor. For Smith it would be.)

I don't think some people are taking this gun as it was intended. And a lot of posters must have not ever worked at a large corporation. Things happen in a corporate structure, in a specific way, because it's a corporate structure. I bet it will be a success. It looks better built than the KelTec and will likely be more reliable long term. Not saying it's better overall, it's just a whole different approach.

As the owner of the M&P12, I am glad that Smith is taking some design chances. FWIW, I think my M&P12 is superior to the KSG in several ways. The M&P12 has received a lot of hate. Mostly from people who never seen, handled or shot one in real life. So far, it's been pretty good, not perfect but pretty good.

 

[someguy2800]

The more I think about it, this gun, for me, would just be a fun gun, camping gun, plinker. I have serious guns. This isn't a serious gun, this should be a fun gun. Perfect for first time rifle shooters.
It seems that lot of posters here and elsewhere expect this gun to be perfect to address all needs, in all calibers. It's not, it's a fun little folding, novelty PCC. Yes, has some issues just like my M&P12 Bullpump but overall, I like it and it works well for the purpose I need it for. Blowback is needed likely for design and to hit a price point. Not crazy about the charging handle but this wouldn't be my HD or SHTF gun,
it's for a fun afternoon at the range. I've noticed that whenever a gun is introduced, especially one that's a bit out of the box, people tend to whinge and complain a lot.

Why does it look weird/ugly?
Why isn't it in 10mm?
Why is the stock so thick when it's folded?
Why is it blowback?
Why doesn't it take Glock mags (this one should be painfully obvious, it's because Smith is a large corporation that makes pistols that take their own mags. Why would anyone at Smith suggest that their new PCC use a competitors magazines? That would be corporate suicide, duh. If you're KelTec, that's not a factor. For Smith it would be.)

I don't think some people are taking this gun as it was intended. And a lot of posters must have not ever worked at a large corporation. Things happen in a corporate structure, in a specific way, because it's a corporate structure. I bet it will be a success. It looks better built than the KelTec and will likely be more reliable long term. Not saying it's better overall, it's just a whole different approach.

As the owner of the M&P12, I am glad that Smith is taking some design chances. FWIW, I think my M&P12 is superior to the KSG in several ways. The M&P12 has received a lot of hate. Mostly from people who never seen, handled or shot one in real life. So far, it's been pretty good, not perfect but pretty good.

View attachment 1137589

You have to give smith and wesson credit, they have released quite a bit of stuff in the last couple years that totally came out of left field, and its all pretty decent stuff. The metal frame M&P, the 10mm M&P, about 400 different versions of the Shield, the EZ pistols, the 5.7, the M&P12, the CSX, and now this. They are probably the most diverse manufacturer on the market right now except for maybe Ruger, and they are all really well made stuff in my eyes. The metal frame pistols expecially have just a stunning amount of machining in them.

 

[Capybara]

You have to give smith and wesson credit, they have released quite a bit of stuff in the last couple years that totally came out of left field, and its all pretty decent stuff. The metal frame M&P, the 10mm M&P, about 400 different versions of the Shield, the EZ pistols, the 5.7, the M&P12, the CSX, and now this. They are probably the most diverse manufacturer on the market right now except for maybe Ruger, and they are all really well made stuff in my eyes. The metal frame pistols expecially have just a stunning amount of machining in them.

Agreed, I do give them credit for taking some chances. This new FPC, the M&P12, the metal frame M&Ps. I carry a Shield Plus Performance Center and before that I carried the Shield 1.0 for the past 8 years. I also own a 625-8 and a 617. Smith makes pretty good guns overall. Not everything is a winner but they do have a very diverse lineup and generally their quality is excellent.

 

[KYamateur]

I wish they would put one of these out in .45. I’ve been waiting for someone to do a .45 carbine. Beretta did make a .45 in cx4 storm but the magazines only hold 8 rounds and are nearly impossible to find. I will give S&W a thumbs up on the three included magazines and carrying case. I do believe the street price of $599 is a good deal.

 

[CraigC]

I was just thinking about another Keltec and wondering which magazine it should take. Had a Gen I and it was a pretty good gun but I sold it during the AWB when I needed cash. Color me interested because the S&W can fold with an optic attached and I like that two spare mags are stored in the butt.

 

[W.E.G.]

If you have a use for a compact 9mm rifle, it should be pretty cool.

I just can't get excited about a 9mm rifle.

Same gun suppressed, and full-auto might be a barrel of monkeys though.
Suppressor, add $500-$1000.
Full-auto, plebes can't have it.

Between being a plebe, and not having a budget for this sort of range toy, I probably have an unwarrranted bad attitude toward it.
I have rifles in rifle calibers, and pistols in pistol calibers. I'll have to make-do at least until my plebitude is lifted.

 

[Roverguy]

I wish they would put one of these out in .45. I’ve been waiting for someone to do a .45 carbine. Beretta did make a .45 in cx4 storm but the magazines only hold 8 rounds and are nearly impossible to find. I will give S&W a thumbs up on the three included magazines and carrying case. I do believe the street price of $599 is a good deal.

If you can put up with fugly, the Hi-Point carbine in 45 acp is a very functional, reliable, fun gun.

 

[someguy2800]

There is also the Aero Survival Rifle, the Just Right Carbine, CMMG Banshee, and a whole bunch of other AR-15 based guns from Moriarti, Pro2a, PSA, and others availible in 45 acp or 10mm. It always confuses me when people lament that there are no PCC's in 45 or 10mm. They are out there already and you could buy them if you wanted.

 

[KYamateur]

AR variants in the pistol carbines don’t interest me unless it is a pistol with the arm brace and that ship has pretty much sailed. The rifle versions aren’t nearly as handy as the S&W, Keltec, and Ruger.

 

[DeepSouth]

Add me to the short list of people that wish this trend would include more 45acp’s.

I don’t know why but I hate that folding center. The center pivots are for skidders and frontend loaders. If not for that Id probably buy one, instead I’ll probably end up with a homesteader…. The wife will probably ultimately decide as it’ll be a behind the door gun and she needs to feel comfortable with it more so than me.

 

[marvin02]

instead I’ll probably end up with a homesteader

I'll be that guy- why not both?

Seriously, buy what fits your needs and your likes.

 

[toivo]

Not once have I been like. This rifle would be better if it stored twice as thick in an awkward case size with the potential to lose half of it.

Easier to fit in a go-bag, under a seat, truck box, console, etc. I get it.

+1 to that answer. I have a Ruger PCC with a MagPul backpacker stock and Glock magazine adapter. It goes in this case:

In the top pocket, I keep a Glock 26. In the bottom pocket, I keep half a dozen G26 magazines and a box of 9mm hollowpoints. The carbine itself has two magazines: one in the magwell and one in the MagPul stock's storage compartment. The G26 has a mag in it. So that's a pistol, a carbine, 9 magazines, and 50 rounds of ammo -- 140 rounds if all the mags were loaded, but I don't keep them that way -- in one little bag that could easily fit under the seat or in the spare-tire compartment of either of my vehicles.

 

[DeepSouth]

I'll be that guy- why not both?

Seriously, buy what fits your needs and your likes.

Mainly money, and the fact I really don’t need but one, and that’s a little bit of a stretch.

The need is something the wife can handle mainly for possums, armadillos, and the like. My preference is blued steel and glossy wood, but for the price of Tupperware and matte black spray paint. Really either will work, like I said, the wife will likely pick. So the ability to mount a light on the folder.

 

[Cokeman]

+1 to that answer. I have a Ruger PCC with a MagPul backpacker stock and Glock magazine adapter. It goes in this case:
View attachment 1137906
In the top pocket, I keep a Glock 26. In the bottom pocket, I keep half a dozen G26 magazines and a box of 9mm hollowpoints. The carbine itself has two magazines: one in the magwell and one in the MagPul stock's storage compartment. The G26 has a mag in it. So that's a pistol, a carbine, 9 magazines, and 50 rounds of ammo -- 140 rounds if all the mags were loaded, but I don't keep them that way -- in one little bag that could easily fit under the seat or in the spare-tire compartment of either of my vehicles.

What bag is it?

 

[hoardingthemanual]

The more I think about it, this gun, for me, would just be a fun gun, camping gun, plinker. I have serious guns. This isn't a serious gun, this should be a fun gun. Perfect for first time rifle shooters.
It seems that lot of posters here and elsewhere expect this gun to be perfect to address all needs, in all calibers. It's not, it's a fun little folding, novelty PCC. Yes, has some issues just like my M&P12 Bullpump but overall, I like it and it works well for the purpose I need it for. Blowback is needed likely for design and to hit a price point. Not crazy about the charging handle but this wouldn't be my HD or SHTF gun,
it's for a fun afternoon at the range. I've noticed that whenever a gun is introduced, especially one that's a bit out of the box, people tend to whinge and complain a lot.

Why does it look weird/ugly?
Why isn't it in 10mm?
Why is the stock so thick when it's folded?
Why is it blowback?
Why doesn't it take Glock mags (this one should be painfully obvious, it's because Smith is a large corporation that makes pistols that take their own mags. Why would anyone at Smith suggest that their new PCC use a competitors magazines? That would be corporate suicide, duh. If you're KelTec, that's not a factor. For Smith it would be.)

I don't think some people are taking this gun as it was intended. And a lot of posters must have not ever worked at a large corporation. Things happen in a corporate structure, in a specific way, because it's a corporate structure. I bet it will be a success. It looks better built than the KelTec and will likely be more reliable long term. Not saying it's better overall, it's just a whole different approach.

As the owner of the M&P12, I am glad that Smith is taking some design chances. FWIW, I think my M&P12 is superior to the KSG in several ways. The M&P12 has received a lot of hate. Mostly from people who never seen, handled or shot one in real life. So far, it's been pretty good, not perfect but pretty good.

View attachment 1137589

If I remember correctly, this forum discussed the POF Tombstone, a “tactical looking” 9mm lever action. Everyone hated it despite myself and a few others making your exact point (or similar). There’s some guns the forum is determined to dislike. Maybe the traditional S&W stamp makes the forum give this one a chance it won’t give newer firearms. I laugh.

 

[CraigC]

If I remember correctly, this forum discussed the POF Tombstone, a “tactical looking” 9mm lever action. Everyone hated it despite myself and a few others making your exact point (or similar). There’s some guns the forum is determined to dislike. Maybe the traditional S&W stamp makes the forum give this one a chance it won’t give newer firearms. I laugh.

The manual action also ensures it would be very quiet with a suppressor. For me the only issue with the Tombstone is the price. The concept is cool and appears to be well executed. If it were chambered in something more potent, I'd be seriously tempted.