wild cat mccane
Member
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- Aug 11, 2009
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- 977
Agreed on the Taurus. Millenium Pro or 24/7 have more features. 20-60$ more
S&W Sigma
- Thread starter KevinR
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I like Taurus and own 2 of them. However, any Mill Pro or 24/7 is likely to be quite a bit more compared to the $299 Sigma plus either $50 off or 2 free mags.
The only Taurus money deal that really beats the Sigma is the $299 PT-101P if you caught it on sale at Academy.
The only Taurus money deal that really beats the Sigma is the $299 PT-101P if you caught it on sale at Academy.
This thread is the ironic part...
All the hype…all the internet bologna….all the people who talk and repeat probably without ever even touching one…
Yet, when you ask the people that ACTUALLY OWN THEM you get the same answer over and over: Solid, reliable gun with a lifetime warranty from a customer centric company. I really wish those that don’t know them would stop talking about them because everyone that reads it seems to believe them.
I have the 9mm sigma. At least 1000 rounds, no functional problems. $260 after rebates w/2 mags and a nice case. Its ergonomics are great. Mine is also dead on accurate, very nice.
About the trigger:
The trigger is strong and can be gritty. It’s all well documented. The gritty part comes from how the sear is rough and unpolished and when it moves along the plastic inside the trigger assembly, it gives a gritty feeling. If you polish it (takes about 15-30 minutes depending on how comfortable you are with tools), that gritty part will completely go away.
The “heavy” part comes from the design and the combination of springs that they used in both the trigger assembly AND the striker assembly. There are 2 minute changes you can make to the spring layout in the trigger assembly that reduce the pull tremendously without effecting the reliability. However, the lower striker spring from wolf, while it does further reduce trigger pull, also adds some FTF possibilities because it reduces the amount of force the firing pin hits the primer with.
If you don’t want to do the above 2 steps and can’t live with the trigger out of the box, make a different choice I guess. But I agree, even out of the box the trigger does not require a team of horses to pull, like the internet would have you think. It’s VERY useable for defensive purposes but isn’t a target shooter’s dream.
Actually, I personally LOVE to work on mechanical systems/take things apart, so I enjoyed fiddling with it and seeing how it worked and how to improve it.
What I don’t like, the proprietary front rail. While an adapter is about $10 on ebay, it’s stupid, they should have just molded something standard to start with. The adapter just looks poor in my opinion.
When you take the glock 17 apart and then take the Sigma apart right next to it, I PROMISE, you will understand why there was a lawsuit. These guns are so close in parts and design it’s silly. I was almost tempted to see how many parts could interchange, because they literally use the exact same design concept/layout inside. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise HAS NOT taken them apart and looked.
All the hype…all the internet bologna….all the people who talk and repeat probably without ever even touching one…
Yet, when you ask the people that ACTUALLY OWN THEM you get the same answer over and over: Solid, reliable gun with a lifetime warranty from a customer centric company. I really wish those that don’t know them would stop talking about them because everyone that reads it seems to believe them.
I have the 9mm sigma. At least 1000 rounds, no functional problems. $260 after rebates w/2 mags and a nice case. Its ergonomics are great. Mine is also dead on accurate, very nice.
About the trigger:
The trigger is strong and can be gritty. It’s all well documented. The gritty part comes from how the sear is rough and unpolished and when it moves along the plastic inside the trigger assembly, it gives a gritty feeling. If you polish it (takes about 15-30 minutes depending on how comfortable you are with tools), that gritty part will completely go away.
The “heavy” part comes from the design and the combination of springs that they used in both the trigger assembly AND the striker assembly. There are 2 minute changes you can make to the spring layout in the trigger assembly that reduce the pull tremendously without effecting the reliability. However, the lower striker spring from wolf, while it does further reduce trigger pull, also adds some FTF possibilities because it reduces the amount of force the firing pin hits the primer with.
If you don’t want to do the above 2 steps and can’t live with the trigger out of the box, make a different choice I guess. But I agree, even out of the box the trigger does not require a team of horses to pull, like the internet would have you think. It’s VERY useable for defensive purposes but isn’t a target shooter’s dream.
Actually, I personally LOVE to work on mechanical systems/take things apart, so I enjoyed fiddling with it and seeing how it worked and how to improve it.
What I don’t like, the proprietary front rail. While an adapter is about $10 on ebay, it’s stupid, they should have just molded something standard to start with. The adapter just looks poor in my opinion.
When you take the glock 17 apart and then take the Sigma apart right next to it, I PROMISE, you will understand why there was a lawsuit. These guns are so close in parts and design it’s silly. I was almost tempted to see how many parts could interchange, because they literally use the exact same design concept/layout inside. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise HAS NOT taken them apart and looked.
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You know cskny, you had me very interested with your post. That is until I dug a little deeper. It seems that the S&W rebate/mag deal expired in Dec. 09 and looking at the availability/price of spare mags, I'm now officially scared away.
I like to have six or eight mags per gun and at $40-$50 each, that would more than eat up any savings versus a G19. They look like interesting pistols though.
If I ever find a source for reasonably priced factory mags and can pick a SW9VE up for around $250-$275, I'll definitely check them out.
I like to have six or eight mags per gun and at $40-$50 each, that would more than eat up any savings versus a G19. They look like interesting pistols though.
If I ever find a source for reasonably priced factory mags and can pick a SW9VE up for around $250-$275, I'll definitely check them out.
Actually, they extended the rebate...
First, I could care less if you buy one. No offense intended, but that's your decision.
BUT, for the record:
The rebate was extended through April 2010, just go to:
http://www.smith-wesson.com
Halfway down the page, you will see an updated ad that cycles saying they have extended it. If you can't, try this link:
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...atalogId=10001&content=755001§ionId=10002
In addition, I just purchased 3 more factory mags on gunbroker for $58 delivered. That's about $19.33 each. I suspect with a touch of effort you could get a similar deal, there was nothing special about it.
Good luck with your decision.
First, I could care less if you buy one. No offense intended, but that's your decision.
BUT, for the record:
The rebate was extended through April 2010, just go to:
http://www.smith-wesson.com
Halfway down the page, you will see an updated ad that cycles saying they have extended it. If you can't, try this link:
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...atalogId=10001&content=755001§ionId=10002
In addition, I just purchased 3 more factory mags on gunbroker for $58 delivered. That's about $19.33 each. I suspect with a touch of effort you could get a similar deal, there was nothing special about it.
Good luck with your decision.
Sorry
Hey swampboy,
Just re-read my response to you and it sounds kinda "harsh". I really didn't mean it that way, sorry about that.
All I really meant was, I'm not trying to influence anyone's decision about what to buy, just trying to share some factual information.
As far as a gun, the Sigma really does stack up nicely and is absolutely a solid choice in my opinion. However, there are a lot of aftermarket things out there for Glock and that is also nice. I would love a .22 conversion kit so I could practice with the same frame and cheaper ammo. No such kit for the sigma (that I know of), but there's a kit/part for just about any change you want to make on the glock.
I think it really depends on what you want it for.
Hey swampboy,
Just re-read my response to you and it sounds kinda "harsh". I really didn't mean it that way, sorry about that.
All I really meant was, I'm not trying to influence anyone's decision about what to buy, just trying to share some factual information.
As far as a gun, the Sigma really does stack up nicely and is absolutely a solid choice in my opinion. However, there are a lot of aftermarket things out there for Glock and that is also nice. I would love a .22 conversion kit so I could practice with the same frame and cheaper ammo. No such kit for the sigma (that I know of), but there's a kit/part for just about any change you want to make on the glock.
I think it really depends on what you want it for.
When the Sigmas first came out they were truly pathetic. I bought one in 1998 that took 6 months, and 3 trips back to S&W before 40 rounds could be fired through the gun. They finally sent me a new gun, which I never took delivery on. I let the dealer keep it new as trade on a Glock.
I know they have corrrected the problems and the new guns are probably a bargain. But it is horror stories like mine from years ago that people still hear about. That is why many people who have never tried one won't.
I know they have corrrected the problems and the new guns are probably a bargain. But it is horror stories like mine from years ago that people still hear about. That is why many people who have never tried one won't.
The newer version is not that older model, plain and simple. When people are asking for opinions on the Sigma, they are asking about the new model but SO many people give them opinions about the older version without clarifying.
Too bad for the people that can't get over the old impressions of a different version, they are missing out on a reliable bargain.
It seems to me that S&W would have been well served to re-name this gun when they redesigned it to clarify that it's not the older version with the poor track record.
Too bad for the people that can't get over the old impressions of a different version, they are missing out on a reliable bargain.
It seems to me that S&W would have been well served to re-name this gun when they redesigned it to clarify that it's not the older version with the poor track record.
jahwarrior
Member
i had the 9VE. it's a decent gun. had no issues until i reached 2,000 rounds, after which i started having mag drops while firing, and a few jams. i sent it back to S&W, and they replaced nearly everything but the frame and barrel. the trigger will smooth out over time on its own; there's no real need to change the springs, or anything. it's not a target gun, but it's accurate enough for self defense.
I bought a SW40VE when they first came out, for $269 I think. I've had it about 15 years. I have only shot a couple hundred rounds thru it but never had any failures. I need to really slam mags home as the catch feels like it is barely engaging; this may be due to an early gun.
I personally don't like the way the trigger feels more due to the way it hinges in the middle. It is heavy and a little bit gritty, but it is has a clean break and very little overtravel. I do like the grip's angle and shape.
CDNN has a good price on LE only marked magazines recently, in case you lose out on the factory rebate.
For a new handgun there is very little out there that matches the quality for the price. I've seen SW9VE's at local stores for $300ish recently.
I also would like to see more "stuff" available for them, like 22 conversion units. I have also never seen any parts like extended or ported barrels like you can get for Glock's et al.
I personally don't like the way the trigger feels more due to the way it hinges in the middle. It is heavy and a little bit gritty, but it is has a clean break and very little overtravel. I do like the grip's angle and shape.
CDNN has a good price on LE only marked magazines recently, in case you lose out on the factory rebate.
For a new handgun there is very little out there that matches the quality for the price. I've seen SW9VE's at local stores for $300ish recently.
I also would like to see more "stuff" available for them, like 22 conversion units. I have also never seen any parts like extended or ported barrels like you can get for Glock's et al.
HspncElvis
Member
I agree with DWhite. Trigger is a bit heavy, but no big deal. You get used to it. The more rounds you pur through it it'll loosen up. I think my SW9VE is great!!
writerinmo
Member
The current models are fighting the stigma that was attached to the truly terrible first generation Sigma's. If you still have one and send it in for repair, S&W sends you a completely new pistol.
The new ones are just fine. I EDC a SW40VE and shoot it every time I get the chance. Listen to those who own and shoot them, not the anti-tupperware codgers.
The new ones are just fine. I EDC a SW40VE and shoot it every time I get the chance. Listen to those who own and shoot them, not the anti-tupperware codgers.
HspncElvis
Member
I really like my SW9VE. I have not had any problems with it. Trigger is a bit tough, but that'll get better the more rounds I put through it. I'd recommend S/W Sigma 9mm in a heart beat!
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