For the money I can get a S&W M&P with an Aimpoint M2 or a stock LMT, both new...I'm really torn. Part of me says go for the highest quality rifle possible, which I believe is the LMT. But then the other part of me says the S&W is also very very good and that the LMT's additional cost just isn't worth it. What do you think?
S&W with Aimpoint or Stock LMT
- Thread starter CTGunner
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I have two Smiths and they are well built and trouble free. What kind of shooting are you planning to do? Do you need the optic or is it just nice to have? If you need it, get the Smith. If you don't, get the other and shoot irons until you save for the aimpoint.
I have a high end AR - the LaRue OBR. However, I bought it for longer range and precision shooting. It is a legitimate 0.5 MOA shooter. If I intended to only use it for HD or something, the Smith with an aimpoint might be the better value.
I have a high end AR - the LaRue OBR. However, I bought it for longer range and precision shooting. It is a legitimate 0.5 MOA shooter. If I intended to only use it for HD or something, the Smith with an aimpoint might be the better value.
+2 on the Smith...15,000 rounds through mine, zero problems whatsoever. Differ slightly from Mags however - I'd say leave the stock BCG, nothing wrong with it; add a H2 or Spikes T2 and Sprinco Red spring. Very nice shooting and reliable rifle. Shoots any old ammo....right from Wolf/Tula through Sierra Match Kings.
Thanks gang. I'm looking for a solid HD rifle. I may shoot some competition but nothing long distance. I want a reliable gun that's reasonably accurate inside of 150 yards.
Also - I can get a stag for about the same cash as the S&W. Are they pretty comparable?
Also - I can get a stag for about the same cash as the S&W. Are they pretty comparable?
Personally, I'd be a little wary of the Stag. Smith did outsource the early M&Ps to Stag....and they have been the ones with problems. Smith took them all in house shortly after and there is nary a bad word said these days. Unless Stag is a lot cheaper I would go Smith. Another option you might consider in a similar price bracket would be Spikes.
That said....no personal experience with Stag so maybe we'll get some firsthand accounts that will be useful.
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Skylerbone
Member
If HD it is I would LMT ASAP, buy a foregrip with built-in light and shoot irons unless you live in a palace. Or do the same with the Smith.
Sure in training classes you may be told you'll need to put 5 shots on target in 2 seconds or less to survive but honestly I like my odds against any home invader and truly doubt my "tier 2" Rock River would be any less up to the task of protecting me.
Honestly, I have a single shot scattergun and two loaded pistols at the ready and if shooting at someone with that much firepower does not dissuade them, I'll be wondering what planet they're from.
The key to success in defense is to have a plan, have the proper equipment, put in the training time and know in your own mind that regardless of numbers or injuries you will survive and your assailant will not. The negligible difference in the brands you're discussing won't likely be the deciding factor.
Sure in training classes you may be told you'll need to put 5 shots on target in 2 seconds or less to survive but honestly I like my odds against any home invader and truly doubt my "tier 2" Rock River would be any less up to the task of protecting me.
Honestly, I have a single shot scattergun and two loaded pistols at the ready and if shooting at someone with that much firepower does not dissuade them, I'll be wondering what planet they're from.
The key to success in defense is to have a plan, have the proper equipment, put in the training time and know in your own mind that regardless of numbers or injuries you will survive and your assailant will not. The negligible difference in the brands you're discussing won't likely be the deciding factor.
I would choose the M&P15 with the aimpoint. the M&P is a solid AR, I know lots of people that have them, and I've never heard a bad thing about any of those rifles. For HD, you cannot beat a red dot sight. You're going to have to shoot fast, and make good shots at indoor distances. In the dark, that's just not going to happen with irons.
The M&P15 is enough rifle for any use.
The M&P15 is enough rifle for any use.
C-grunt
Member
The general consensus is that S&W is a good to go rifle. If I wasnt going to buy a Colt, DD, BCM etc... it would be a Smith in a heartbeat.
nwilliams
Member
LMT may be worth the extra money, it is to a lot of people. My buddy owns an LMT and thinks it's just the best AR in the world, although I still think my Daniel Defense is better
Really the only major thing that the LMT has going for it over the S&W is that the LMT comes with a 1:7 twist barrel and the S&W is a 1:9, for many people that would be the deal breaker while others don't find it to be important. I personally would rather have an 1:7 but that's just a personal preference nothing more.
I'd say go with the S&W and Aimpoint, that's a fine combination and I don't think you'll regret it. If you want a cheaper alternative to the LMT I'd look at Daniel Defense or BCM, both will give you everything that the LMT can for less money. Or go with a BCM upper and a S&W lower.
Really the only major thing that the LMT has going for it over the S&W is that the LMT comes with a 1:7 twist barrel and the S&W is a 1:9, for many people that would be the deal breaker while others don't find it to be important. I personally would rather have an 1:7 but that's just a personal preference nothing more.
I'd say go with the S&W and Aimpoint, that's a fine combination and I don't think you'll regret it. If you want a cheaper alternative to the LMT I'd look at Daniel Defense or BCM, both will give you everything that the LMT can for less money. Or go with a BCM upper and a S&W lower.
Al Thompson
Moderator Emeritus
Agree on the S&W and Aimpoint. I've noticed that Pat Rogers is warming up to the S&Ws. I have a Stag lower and it's a bit tighter in the magwell than late model Smiths. I purchased the Stag in 2007, so that may have changed. Still, IMHO, the Smith is the odds on favorite vrs. the Stag.
12131
Member
Ok, you like to do it that way, but why should the OP? The Smith will do just fine the way it is. Yeah, I'm the LMT fan, but from the OP's question, I'd vote for the Smith and the Aimpoint.
FlyinBryan
Member
no way to tell till you put some range time on it.
a lemon can have any name on the lower. you just never know. chances are you will love what you got, just be sure to do a range report.
a lemon can have any name on the lower. you just never know. chances are you will love what you got, just be sure to do a range report.
Because the OP said this:
I had assumed the Smith's bolt was not up to specs but after some research I fount the bolt be MPI and the carrier properly staked, the barrel however is where the Smith was lacking but for the OP's stated purpose it should be fine.
nwilliams
Member
I think you'll be perfectly happy with the Stag 2T. I had a Stag Model 3 for a while and it was a decent AR but I should have gone with the 2T. If I had gone with the 2T to begin with I would probably still be a Stag owner today but I decided to become a Daniel Defense owner instead.
To be honest I think the S&W makes a better AR than Stag but most people who own Stag's are very happy with them and you probably will be to. Believe it or not the biggest complaint you hear about Stag is the deer logo on the side, lot's of people hate that logo and to be honest I'm not to fond of it myself.
12131
Member
That's why I said what I said. People tend to assume a lot of things. AR specs evolve so quickly (even from the same brand, e.g., S&W), that, what might have been true yesterday is not so today.
Update
I took the Stag to the range today and it worked flawlessly. Before leaving I broke down the rifle and oiled/greased it completely. Inspecting the internals of the weapon, I will say that the overall fit and finish is excellent. My only negative observation was that the gas key, while staked, does not appear to be staked properly. This is basically what I expected. At the range I all shooting was done at 50 yards using the flip iron sites. The groups were good, for me..I'll post some pictures later tonight. Interestingly, the guy at the next table over was shooting a new S&W M&P and he offered to let me try it. While the Smith was very nice, I would put the overall feel of the weapon on par with the Stag. With that said, I have no regrets.
I took the Stag to the range today and it worked flawlessly. Before leaving I broke down the rifle and oiled/greased it completely. Inspecting the internals of the weapon, I will say that the overall fit and finish is excellent. My only negative observation was that the gas key, while staked, does not appear to be staked properly. This is basically what I expected. At the range I all shooting was done at 50 yards using the flip iron sites. The groups were good, for me..I'll post some pictures later tonight. Interestingly, the guy at the next table over was shooting a new S&W M&P and he offered to let me try it. While the Smith was very nice, I would put the overall feel of the weapon on par with the Stag. With that said, I have no regrets.
Al Thompson
Moderator Emeritus
Kool! Run it hard and enjoy!
AR's today are much better than ARs of yesterday. Good that you have one in your hands. Lube it, use good ammo and Pmags and you, sir, are off to a good start!
Run it hard and enjoy! AR's today are much better than ARs of yesterday. Good that you have one in your hands. Lube it, use good ammo and Pmags and you, sir, are off to a good start!
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