Sabotted .44 mag

[Boom-stick]

I've got a single shot .44 mag pistol and was wondering if anyone had attempted making sabot loads for one, I've read about sabots for 308's using 223 bullets that give around 4000fps and 50cal firing 308's and wanted to know how this could be done with a .44 launching some kind of rifle bullet? if at all.
A .44 isn't legally fast enough for deer in the UK and I figured sabotted rounds would be cheaper than a new pistol.

DW

 

[unspellable]

sabots

AS you are in the UK, I'm surprised to hear you have a center fire pistol of any description.

Some years ago I ran across the description of a revolver with 44 mag chambers and a 357 barrel. It used 357/44 sabots that were cylinder shaped, that is not closed at the rear. When fired, the sabot ran forward and stopped at the barrel breech while the bullet went down the barrel. Of course, what this accomplished was greater powder capacity, not a greater bore area for a smaller bullet as is the usual purpose of a sabot.

I think your idea is sound, the trick will be to find a 357/44 sabot.

Here we commonly see 45/44, 50/44, and 54/44 sabots for using a 44 Mag style bullet in a muzzle loader. I've also seen 223/308 sabots for center fire rifles.

 

[redneck2]

What are your requirements???

 

[ArmedBear]

Remington makes all sorts of such things commercially, including Core-Lokt hunting bullets, and solid copper hunting bullets, saboted in a 12 or 20 gauge shotshell. Some American locales have laws that require the use of a shotgun for deer hunting, but curiously they often allow a rifled barrel, so you end up with something resembling a .45-70 with these rounds. They can be reasonably accurate and have pretty serious energy.

Remington's line also includes the .30-06 Springfield Accelerator and the .30-30 Win. Accelerator, which are .223 rounds, saboted, for use in .30-06 and .30-30 rifles, respectively.

The .30-06/.223 has a stated muzzle velocity of 4080 fps.

The potential problem? Rifling twist rate. Your .44 Magnum might have a twist rate that would be completely wrong for another round. What is the minimum velocity/energy your law requires for deer? You have pretty big deer, or am I wrong about that?

 

[Standing Wolf]

If all else fails, try paper patches. Those were the norm a century or so ago.

 

[Boom-stick]

What is the minimum velocity/energy your law requires for deer? You have pretty big deer, or am I wrong about that?

The believe the minimum requirment for UK deer is a cailbre of more than .240 that must hollowpoint/expanding with at least 1700ftlbs and 2400fps.

I don't know what the twist rate is down my barrel as a picked up the weapon second-hand, really should contact the factory.

As for hand guns in the UK you can have them providing they are over 24" in overal length with a barrell of at least 12" and only.22 if its semi-auto.

It's not great but its what we've got.

(PS.we can have moderators/sliencers on anything though!!! just got to say it's to protect your hearing!!!)

 

[Majic]

Do you have a chronogragh or access to one? With a 12 inch barrel and closed chamber (no B/C gap of a revolver) you should be able to get 1700fps with some .44 mag loads.

 

[HSMITH]

Majic, 1700 fpE and 2400 fpS.

 

[only1asterisk]

I don't think you can get 2400 fps and 1700 ftlbs. I don't know of any sabots for your application and molds for sabots cost thousands of dollars. Sounds like you need a new barrel.

David

 

[Boom-stick]

My .44 has a 23" barrell and has already gone over 2100fps but seems to fall short at around 1400/1500ftlbs.
Might just get a new barrell .500s&w or something. 45/70 looks good too.

 

[only1asterisk]

With 23" of barrel you may yet get 2400 fps! Isn't it a bit ungainly?

David

 

[Jim Watson]

Is there anyone there who could rechamber it to .444 Marlin?

I don't think .500 S&W or .45-70 is going to make 2400 fps, not with a bullet of reasonable weight for the calibre.

I think you need a smaller calibre to drive that fast. One of J.D. Jones' SSK specials would be nice.
http://www.sskindustries.com/

Would you not be allowed to hunt deer with an Express rifle? A friend here has a .450 BPE that will do about 1700 fps and nobody doubts that is adequate for deer. Many a Nitro Express has a muzzle velocity less than 2400 fps but that does not keep them from being effective on buffalo and elephants.

 

[Boom-stick]

With 23" of barrel you may yet get 2400 fps! Isn't it a bit ungainly?

David

It is a bit ungainly, but it's what we've got to work with, It's a real head turner down the range!! and will group pretty well, I'm not what I'd call a good shot but I can put a 10 shot group within an inch or so at 25m

Think I'll probably wind up getting a 308 barrel for it, at least the ammo is easy to get. or I might look for one in 243wssm.
What I really want is calibre that I can use on deer but then down load for use in my indoor range where the limit is around 1000fps?

 

[ArmedBear]

Look here for some:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/c...s&Ntx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=sabot&noImage=0

Pitfalls include:

.44 Magnum is really .429-.430, whereas .45 is .450-.454, so a .45 sabot might not work.

2400 fps might be more than the plastic can handle. You'd have to research. These sabots are generally made for shotguns and black powder. Some high-end inline BP rifles might shoot 2400 fps.

----

You COULD try a .410 shotshell plastic wad and find a bullet that fits in it. But it, too, isn't designed for more than 1500 fps. And chamber pressure could get ugly.

2400 fps and 1700 ft-lb is a pretty low number for even a marginal big game round like a .243 Winchester. It's easy to get with a necked rifle round. (By marginal I mean not that it's a bad round, just that it's a proven round on smaller animals, but not often used on a 500 lb beast).

 

[unspellable]

sabot

If you can find a Teflon or maybe Polystyrene dowel of .430 to .440 diameter you could cut it to length and drill a .357 hole in one end. Or it might be possible to punch plastic slugs out of a thick sheet. The trick then would be to keep everything lined up. If you are a tad off center the accuracy will not bear thinking about.

 

[Boom-stick]

Thanks for all your help guys, it looks like another barrell is in order really, I'll just keep the .44 for range work and maybe see if I can find some wild boar to use it on.

DW

 

[rockstar.esq]

Unspellable, no offence but what are you talking about? A revolver with a .357 bore and a .44Mag cylinder!?! Looking at my .44mag, I'd guesstimate that the distance from crimp groove to forcing cone is a mere .5" I don't see how a sabot would have any positive effect here. From what you describe I envision a chunk of plastic lodging itself firmly at the forcing cone thus binding the cylinder. Personally, I don' t know why a single shot .44Mag couldn't be set up with a .35 cal rifle bullet and a sabot designed to fill the gap. If my math is correct the sabot thickness would be about 40 thousandths.