Sad case at my High School (where I teach)

[beerslurpy]

Actually, conspiracy to commit a misdemeanor is a felony in CA, so you could conceivably arrest a group of urban youths for conspiring to paint graffitti. Sure would suck to lose the right to vote or own guns because of somethign like that.

CA penal code:

182. (a) If two or more persons conspire:
(1) To commit any crime.
(2) Falsely and maliciously to indict another for any crime, or to procure another to be charged or arrested for any crime.
(3) Falsely to move or maintain any suit, action, or proceeding.
(4) To cheat and defraud any person of any property, by any means which are in themselves criminal, or to obtain money or property by false pretenses or by false promises with fraudulent intent not to perform those promises.
(5) To commit any act injurious to the public health, to public morals, or to pervert or obstruct justice, or the due administration of the laws.
(6) To commit any crime against the person of the President or Vice President of the United States, the Governor of any state or territory, any United States justice or judge, or the secretary of any of the executive departments of the United States.

 

[Fletchette]

You may hate cops, but that will only last until you need to call them for their services.. Funny how that works

I was under the impression that the only responsibility cops have is to collect evidence. The courts have ruled on many occassion that the police have no obligation to protect individuals. So, the next time I need someone to collect evidence...

Citizens protect themselves. I gladly accept that responsibility. I don't hate cops, but I admit that I do find it annoying when they think that they are somehow guardians of us all.

 

[silverlance]

this is ironic

" To commit any act injurious to the public health, to public morals " -ca penal code


IN CALIFORNIA??!?! how could you possibly injure public morals around here? lol*

unless by injuring public morals you mean refuse to let your employees show up in drag... yeah...

 

[silverlance]

ps

cops are usually great people.

i just despise and remain contemptuous of anybody who tells me that I should leave the job of defending / protecting / preventing crime to the cops when it is abundantly clear that this is something that cops simply do not have the ability to do.

cops are good folks who do what they can. however, they are not superman....

 

[Combat-wombat]

I work with teenagers.

Rule 1 : Don't trust them.
Rule 2 : They manipulate.
Rule 3 : They triangulate, and attempt to split authority figures.

Yeah, I talk with gun owners all the time...
Rule 1 : They're all obsessed.
Rule 2 : They're violent.
Rule 3 : They're racist.

See the similarity?

And also, who says manipulating and splitting authority figures is a bad thing? Contempt for authority is a trait of all true patriots.

 

[280PLUS]

Just something to think about.

I have a manipulative little teen of my own. It's AMAZING the cover stories she can come up with at the drop of a hat.

Anyhow my question is: If possessing a 1" marker is a FELONY in the state of Ka (I'm not saying I agree with that law) why was the kid in possession of said marker? I would consider that evidence of a little duplicity going on there.

If I had my druthers I'd make marker possession a misdemeanor and make the little buggers do community service cleaning up some graffitti for many hours.

Kids have no concept of what a felony conviction means. I think it's irresposible of Ka to set up it's teens for felony conviction which, while it doesn't affect them now, will CERTAINLY do so as they get older and as we all know, then it's too late. Eventually Ka will have a subpopulation of people who lost the right to vote before they ever even had it and I don't see that as a positive result of trying to stop graffitti.

Kudos on taking and sticking with what sounds like a very difficult teaching position, my hat goes off to you!



I had an afterthought...I don't know exactly what you teach but a nice classroom assignment might be to examine the marker law presenting all the reasons they can for why it is an unfair law and actually have them take the steps necessary to try and get it changed. It would be a great exercise in community participation as well as help them understand that no law is set in stone.

Just an idea. I used to teach ADULTS (can be WAY WORSE than kids) so I have a few other ideas running through my head if you'd like to PM me over them.

 

[Old Fuff]

280PLUS:

It was established in earlier posts that the kid had an after-school job that involved marking cartons and boxes, and therefore he needed the marker. Hopefully this will come out if any hearings or trials are held.

I don't know if the kid, and/or Silverlance are telling the truth or not. But I have been an observer in other instances (not in L.A.) where similar things have happened. Therefor I consider that it is quite possible that the incident could have happened, and there are elements in the story that make me think it might have been as related.

Hopefully my position will not be seen as cop-bashing. I have worked with law enforcement officers at all levels for most of my adult life. I still count many of them as friends, and I understand how dificult and frustrating their jobs can be.

But at the same time my past experience tells me that like any other profession, there are some bad apples in the barrel.

 

[280PLUS]

oops,

Missed that. I read it yesterday and hadn't gone back to reread till now. I guess I also forgot how the police roughed him up too and that was the original point of the thread. Yes there are bad apples no matter where you look. I have another thought but no time now. more later...

 

[Oleg Volk]

Anyhow my question is: If possessing a 1" marker is a FELONY in the state of Ka (I'm not saying I agree with that law) why was the kid in possession of said marker? I would consider that evidence of a little duplicity going on there.

Probably because neither that kid, nor you and I, even know what constitutes a felony today. I am still unsure, even after the help from two attroneys, if I had committed felonies in the past or not. We simply can't figure out the meaning of some laws. And that after taking an active interest in the matter!

If a person moves to live in CA and brings a lawnmower along, would they have to check if that model of lawnmower is prohibited by the state environmental regulations? Would violating those be a felony? WOuld it even occur to one to check?

 

[silverlance]

thanks!

that's a really good idea! here one of the CA-approved teaching standards for eng. is "technical literature" - which means things like instruciton manuals, medicine bottles ... and penal codes would certainly fall under that one as well as "research methods".

2 things:

1. kids here don't know everything about the law, but they do know quite a bit - lots of family members in jail, etc. they do, however, often have a misrepresented or misinformed version of the law. and if they're illegal they usually choose to pay any fine rather than show up in court, even if innocent - which I'm sure the city knows and profits nicely from (dont know what to think about -that-).

2. the consequences of poor reading skills, esp. in tech. lit (which I first had laughed at), can be disastrous. i've had kids try to drink rubbing alcohol that I had in the classroom, use saline solution directly in their eyes (and lemon juice, too), take asprin in conjunction with EVERYTHING & without counting how many they've taken already in a day, and share prescription medicine.

thanks for all the support from ppl about where i teach, but i don't think i'm doing such a big service - as a matter of fact I'm still get the hang of the job. to tell the truth it's not as bad as the media makes it sound - for the most 90% of the part all the kids are VERY respectful, at least those kids with parents, but it's just the 10% (that USUALLY have had miserable parent time all their lives) that do all the rotten low-life things. again, same goes for cops or any other profession.

heh, one teacher last thursday fell asleep in her classroom (!!) and while she was out one of the kids stole her SHOES. she never got them back and had to go to her car barefoot, much to the amusement of everybody watching LoL*

one more thing - i'm in St.Helens right now and it's really strange to me - I've been here 2 days and I haven't seen a SINGLE cop!!! Not one! and I've driven well over 80 miles all over portland - trojan and back...

 

[silverlance]

oleg

there really are lawnmower laws. not sure what those are, but in L.A. City operation of a leafblower before 8am is an expensive offense ($250 fine).

and then there are the well-meaning but stupid "protect the kids" laws - ie., if a cop or neighbor sees your kid running said lawnmower you might find social services at your door asking why you have been "dangerously neglecting" and "abusing" your child. unless of course your "kid" looks like some of those in my classroom - 14 years old and six feet 2 @ 167 lbs.

 

[El Rojo]

heh, one teacher last thursday fell asleep in her classroom (!!) and while she was out one of the kids stole her SHOES. she never got them back and had to go to her car barefoot, much to the amusement of everybody watching LoL*

It really amazes me some of the teachers they find around here. I am up here in Bakersfield and we had a teacher at another continuation school showing movies all the time while she cruised on her computer. Well one fine movie day two of the kids were feeling amorous and one manually stimulated the other in class!!! The teacher only found out about it when a bunch of the kids wanted to go home because they were grossed out. I would feel lower than low if I ever had to live in the disgrace of falling asleep and losing my shoes or having students perform heavy petting in my classroom while I showed a movie and sat on my computer.

That is why I think all public school teachers should have to teach in prison first. Nothing would be better than getting teachers used to lying, cheating, theiving, and manipulative students quicker than working in prison. Then when they get out and go work with students, they will be prepared. Even if they work in a good district, they will still have their act together. If teaching just paid better in prison, I would have stayed there, no question.

 

[280PLUS]

What it seems to me is maybe a "conspiracy" for lack of a better word by the haves against the have nots in terms of eliminating them from ever being able to join the voter base. If you make owning a marker a felony knowing the urban have nots are most likely the ones to possess them, isn't that stacking the deck against them? Especially if the "perpetrators" don't know what it means to be convicted of a felony. This way the haves will never have to worry about the have nots interfering in their legislative process and they'll be free to contort it to their own likings.

I can't believe our forefathers felt something like possession and misuse of a marker to be so heinous a crime as to revoke the rights of citizenship. Maybe a "3 strikes your out" approach but not the first time around.

I'd say :"Well, you have your choice, juvey hall or 50 hours cleaning up graffitti, take your pick." At least give them 1/2 a chance to see the errors of their ways and reform before outcasting them forever.

If the kid truly didn't know possession of a marker was a felony then I'd say he has a leg to stand on. If he DID know and still possessed one then he is at fault regardless of WHERE he got it. I get the impression that it may be a teen status symbol to be in possession of a marker to demonstrate a level of "coolness" or contempt for authority one might desire to maintain in their strange little world. It's all about who's "cool" and who's not in their world. I see it every day...

 

[Mongo the Mutterer]

Inquiring minds want to know, if

One

so he ditches all his stuff (id, bus pass, etc)

Why is he charged with

possession of a marker over 1 inch

If he ditched all his stuff, WHY NOT THE MARKER?

Just a smell test question to add to the reek of the punk's original story.

 

[c_yeager]

If he ditched all his stuff, WHY NOT THE MARKER?

Maybe the kid was only ditching items that he felt could get him in trouble. Perhaps it never occured to him that having a pen in his pocket was a crime, it sure as heck never occured to me.

 

[MAUSER88]

This is all a problem because of overpopulation. When O when will we finally close the borders!!

 

[silverlance]

response to above

when american companies start hiring americans at american wages & benefits instead of opting for cheap illegal import labor.

or

when all the remaining manual labor jobs eventally go out of country, and there is no longer any point for illegals to come here without an education.

 

[carebear]

Just what is an "American" wage?

Jobs pay what the job is worth to the employer and employee.

If you the employer can get (to you) proportionately equivilent work for less payroll out, it'd be the height of foolishness to pay more. To be forced to pay more (if the employee is legal to employ) would be theft from you.

If a worker feels they are not paid enough and someone else will take the job for less, that's their problem.

Illegal immigration must be curbed and illegals should not be employed but, that aside, digging ditches is never going to pay a rate that will lure anyone, "American" or otherwise, who is willing and able to do something more lucrative.

 

[ACORN]

What is up with the marker? You can get a felony over a marker?

Yeah the next thing you know they'll be banning coffee cans.