Saiga .308

[RonDeer10mm]

I was thinking about buying an M1a scout squad for hunting but lately Ive been leaning over to the saiga 308 and have it converted and customized for less than under 1600.
anyone know how good these Saiga 308s are compared to the M1A
what I'm looking for primarily is RELIABILITY and ACCURACY, right after cost.
Anyone have a converted Saiga .308 is it good or reliable. IF not I will just get a .308 bolt action... If I cant convert then I will surely not buy the saiga.

 

[Girodin]

If its just for hunting I'm not sure I'd get either. I'd get a bolt gun. Both are heavier than a bolt guntype of hunting I do requires walking, a lot, in the mountains, at very high elevations. Further neither is likely not as accurate as even a cheap bolt gun like a stevens 200 and certainly they wont approach bolt guns in the same price range.

That said I have a S308 and yes it is very reliable. It is an AK.

I shoot with someone that has a scout and I don't think it does anything that the Saiga wont. A factory scout and converted saiga are likely to be about the same in accuracy both satisfactorily accurate for hunting and normal hunting ranges.

The 308 is the easiest one to convert some respects. You can do a very nice job with a bunch of bells and whistles for MUCH less than the scout

Also if its only for hunting then the Saiga 308 ver 21 might be worth looking at.

I have a 308 project that when I get some more time I plan to document here like I did my last S12 project.

 

[nalioth]

A Saiga is not going to have the accuracy of a bolt gun.

For what it is, the Saiga is quite accurate.

Reliability? C'mon, mister - it's a Kalashnikov.

 

[desidog]

have it converted and customized for less than under 1600

If you spend more than half that you're doing it wrong.

I have both and like both; but besides being semiauto .308s, they don't have that much in common. It comes down to what floats your boat. The 16" Saiga is lighter and shorter than the M1A, cheaper too, and definitely minute-of-deer, but not as well made or as accurate.

I'd recommend you test drive both types before you buy.

 

[Full Metal Jacket]

get the springfield MI scout.

 

[RonDeer10mm]

the only reason Im not getting the M1A scout is the prices for the mags

 

[RonDeer10mm]

I've heard even though their AK's they're not as reliable

 

[nalioth]

I've heard even though their AK's they're not as reliable

"Not as reliable" compared to what?

They're quite reliable, in the real world.

Can't speak to their reliability at gun shop counters or in some internet forums.

 

[RonDeer10mm]

My main interest is how would I even do this Pistol grip "Conversion"?

 

[nalioth]

My main interest is how would I even do this Pistol grip "Conversion"?

Not a problem. The .308 Saiga is the easiest to convert.
See how easy it is: http://vimeo.com/2787027

 

[unwise11]

Uhh. the M1A is better than any stamped junk. get it. the mags will last a long time.
and it will have parts for a long time. after a while you wont be seeing imported rifles.

 

[Kymasabe]

Ripping out the sporter stock and goofy trigger and doing the conversion is easy, there are online tutorials on YouTube.
Go here first! : http://www.dinzagarms.com/index.html

Then go to the Saiga forum and become a member: http://forum.saiga-12.com/

Between the two, you have more than enough information to do a really nice clean conversion. All the parts you need can be bought at Dinzags site. If you need another site for price comparison check out:
http://dpharms.com/ and some of the other vendors on the Saiga site.

That being said. I had a Saiga .308 and was really impressed with the gun, was quite accurate. However, if I was looking for a .308 hunting gun only, I'd look at my local gunshop for a nice used bolt gun like a Savage or Stevens, maybe a Remington. The Saiga is great for home defense, SHTF, range toy, hunting, and all sorts of other stuff. The sights are crap so plan on putting on a scope if you intend to hunt with it.

 

[RonDeer10mm]

From what I've seen In the conversion video I think Im getting the M1A I'm not good with conversions and the M1A scout squad does look better with the walnut stock thanks for the advice.

 

[Kymasabe]

If you have a pulse and opposable thumbs, you can do a Saiga conversion with basic hand tools in about three hours.

 

[Snakum]

Uhh. the M1A is better than any stamped junk. get it. the mags will last a long time. and it will have parts for a long time. after a while you wont be seeing imported rifles.

"Better" as far as reliability? Most Saiga users would disagree. "Better" as far as ergos? Personal taste. "Better" as far as accuracy? From personal experience I'd disagree and say it depends on the individual weapon. I've seen at least two benched Saigas (both 20" barrels) shoot close to 1MOA with Russian ammo (Barnul) - so I know with FGMM they would likely bust the magic 1 inch group @ 100. And I've seen an M1A print 3" groups with "match ammo" (per the owner) using 168gr SMKs. "Better" in your personal opinion? Hey ... you got ONE out of FOUR!

I dare say that so many Saigas have been sold in the US in recent years that any import ban would have little affect on parts. There'd be plenty of US mfrs stepping up production to grab the $$$.

In thick brush I often run an AKM when deer hunting to get a fast second shot. Took two last year with a cheap WASR 10/63. A .308 Saiga is likley going to be more accurate than my WASR and the .308 is going to have more punch, too. Hunting with a Saiga? @#$% yes!

 

[Full Metal Jacket]

the only reason Im not getting the M1A scout is the prices for the mags

comparing an M1A Scout to a Saiga is analogous to comparing a new Mercedes to a pinto.

 

[Snakum]

comparing an M1A Scout to a Saiga is analogous to comparing a new Mercedes to a pinto.

A Camry to a Kia Optima maybe.

I used an M21 for sniper school back in the day. Loved it (hated the scope, tho ). But an M1A is most definitely not an M21 and it has problems with individual variability in accuracy and reliability like many other weapon systems.

 

[kayak-man]

comparing an M1A Scout to a Saiga is analogous to comparing a new Mercedes to a pinto.

No, Saiga's don't explode when you rear end them

I have the x39 saiga, haven't converted it yet, but so far, it has proven to be reliable and more accurate than I expected. I think that a lot of people don't like the Saiga's because they are so inexpensive compared to other guns, and that should indicate lower quality. Should, but doesn't.

I can't comment on how it compares to an M1a, but I personally would not buy the Springfield. I'm sure they are great guns, and they are probably better made, but I'm not sure if the improved quality is worth all that extra cash. I may be wrong. I'll admit for me, its more about politics, I can't afford to buy a gun that costs that much, so I'm going to send that company a message by not buying from them - I know they won't read my message, probably won't even open the envelope.


Buy the gun that you really want: don't let the M1a's price be an inhibiting factor any more than an (unjust) bad reputation for the Russian gun.

Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson

 

[kmcintosh78]

Having had a saiga, I loved it but got 2" groups at 100 yards. Sold it, got a standard, love it even more. A little massaging and I get 1" at 100 yards.
Get the Scout, you won't be dissapointed.

 

[jhansman]

While I don't see much point in comparing these rifles, as a Saiga owner who did his own conversion (not difficult, if you have basic mechanical skills), I can say I bought it for reliability, and it has never failed to function according to its time-tested design. Accuracy? At 100 yds, all shots mark my 8" Shoot-N-C. More than that I cannot ask.

 

[wriggly]

I had a Saiga 7.62x39 and I wont debate the reliability of them because that is a given. But the accuracy on the other hand left something to be desired. I have an Egyptian Maadi that is more accurate than the Saiga, and cost less, and did not need converting. I sold the Saiga to a Bulgarian friend that is perfectly content to keep it stock, and he is also very content with the accuracy.

I too would opt for a bolt gun if I needed or wanted a rifle in .308 caliber. The ammo bill can get up there pretty quick with a semi.

Back when I had a SP1 rifle and carbine, and PMC ammo was $2.00 a box, life was good. The closest I can come to that these days, is the $4.00 a box 7.62 stuff commonly available.

Get a bolt gun. You can get a decent savage with a scope for around $300

 

[Girodin]

I've heard even though their AK's they're not as reliable

My experience has been they are every bit as reliable as a 7.62x39. Of course with either on, or a M1a or any other box fed magazine weapon if you have a crap magazine it will have issues. I've never had a malfunction with my 308.

Saiga is lighter and shorter than the M1A, cheaper too, and definitely minute-of-deer, but not as well made or as accurate.

What is your basis for saying that, regarding accuracy? My experience has been they are roughly equal unless you step up to a more heavily customized M1A and if you are going to do that then it becomes a whole new discussion as to what to buy IMHO. Also if you are after more accuracy than what I've seen SOCOMs and S308s exhibit it argues for a different weapon system entirely.

Uhh. the M1A is better than any stamped junk.

Define better. I love conclusory statements with no basis given for them.

the mags will last a long time.
and it will have parts for a long time. after a while you wont be seeing imported rifles.

I think this is a red herring for several reasons. Not the least of which is there is no real support for your initial premise that the guns will eve no longer be imported. Even if we say agruendo that will happen it would mean 308 saigas would be like become price like genuine HKs. If we ignore that fact it is still the case that one could buy a whole spare gun for the price difference. If you have the money to shoot out two AKs chambered in 308 then you could just buy buy a S308, an M1A and get a SCAR while you're at it.only t

 

[desidog]

Quote:
Saiga is lighter and shorter than the M1A, cheaper too, and definitely minute-of-deer, but not as well made or as accurate.

What is your basis for saying that, regarding accuracy? My experience has been they are roughly equal unless you step up to a more heavily customized M1A and if you are going to do that then it becomes a whole new discussion as to what to buy IMHO. Also if you are after more accuracy than what I've seen SOCOMs and S308s exhibit it argues for a different weapon system entirely.

My basis is that i own both, shoot both, and (in the case of my particular examples) the M1A is more accurate than the S308. The M1A has much more user-friendly sights when it comes to adjustments, which might factor into my above statement; and although i use both exclusively with irons, I have a scope mount for each (for NV) and I did put my 8-18x Leupold on each, crank it up to 18x and shot some groups a while back. Same ammo, etc.

With a scope that's worth more than the rifle, the Saiga performed plenty good...and made me wonder why i bought an M1A for 3x the money...and with irons, quite frankly both guns will do fine.

However, I would not take my M1A hunting. It is too heavy to lug around all day, and even if you sling it on your back you've got the mag digging into your side....well, maybe to sit in a blind, but i find that boring. Also, I wouldn't want to ding up that beautiful walnut stock!

So, If i were slogging in the mud and brush: Saiga. Sitting in a blind: M1A. However, this argument is a bit ridiculous, since i take one of my scoped bolt-guns over either one. Lighter, and more accurate...

I also find many of the posts in this thread a bit ridiculous. Comparing anything to a Pinto is not even a veiled insult: it's just insulting. Saying that anything with a stamped receiver is junk only indicates that the writer of that post has never handled or shot anything with a stamped receiver (well, maybe a WASR or something from Century).

I'll reword my line from my previous post, since i think it is important (with any OP asking and posters bickering over gun-types):

-TRY THEM OUT YOURSELF BEFORE YOU BUY ONE.
-TAKE THEM APART AND SEE WHATS INSIDE.
-MAKE UP YOUR OWN MIND.

As a side note, restoring a Saiga is so easy a caveman could do it: AK's have been built in caves in Afghanistan. I saw a pretty cool gunsmith's cave corner in a place called Zhawar Kili a couple years ago... no power tools to be found anywhere.

 

[kaferhaus]

If you wanna hunt buy a bolt gun.

If you wanna play cheap, buy a Saiga

If you wanna play with quality buy a M1A

I've owned several of each and the M1A wins the quality/accuracy test every time.

Most M1As will shoot 2" groups bone stock. Most Saiga's are pie plate guns at 100m. Good enough for SHTF but little else.

There are plenty of internet commando's that'll swear theirs is a MOA rifle..... never seen it, in fact never seen one that would consistently shoot 2 MOA. The rifles design is towards reliability, accuracy was always an after thought with all the AK variants as well as with the SKS. The action design and very loose tolerances themselves inhibit any ability of this design to be "accurate" by any standard other than that of what they are.... a battle rifle.

I like mine just fine the way it is. it does what it was designed to do.

 

[Girodin]

My basis is that i own both, shoot both, and (in the case of my particular examples) the M1A is more accurate than the S308.

Is yours a SOCOM? Have you given each a fair shake searching for loads it likes. My experience has been just the opposite shooting the SOCOM and the S308 side by side. That they are both about 2MOA guns generally.

he M1A has much more user-friendly sights when it comes to adjustments, which might factor into my above statement

Agreed, I've typically shot both with an optic. I look at the issue of limiting sights as being independent of mechanical accuracy but it is obviously an issue if you will be shooting with irons.

this argument is a bit ridiculous, since i take one of my scoped bolt-guns over either one. Lighter, and more accurate...

That's what I do too.

With a scope that's worth more than the rifle, the Saiga performed plenty good...and made me wonder why i bought an M1A for 3x the money...and with irons, quite frankly both guns will do fine.

That is essentially my point. $1600 reliable, durable, 2-3 moa gun or $600 reliable, durable, 2-3 moa gun?

-TRY THEM OUT YOURSELF BEFORE YOU BUY ONE.
-TAKE THEM APART AND SEE WHATS INSIDE.
-MAKE UP YOUR OWN MIND.

Sound advice. Personal preferences dictate a lot when it comes to guns. Difference in that area are often much more notable than performance differences between guns.

Most Saiga's are pie plate guns at 100m.

That is also not my experience with any of the saigas I own. Nor is that the experience I see most often reported. 2MOA is commonly reported for the saiga as it is for the M1A. I'm sure exemplars of each exist that do better but on average I don't think the odds of getting one that is notably better than the other is very good.

Good enough for SHTF but little else.

Go tell all the people on the saiga forums who hunt with theirs. If you cannot take game inside of normal hunting ranges with an S308 the issue sure as heck isn't the gun. Tell the guys at Gabe Suarez's GSR course that were taking theirs out to 800 yards and making COM hits. Like I say if you can not make shots on game at 200 yds or less with a S308 a different gun wont fix that.

Lastly I would wager that the S308 with good ammo out shoots what a great many shooters are capable of from field positions so much of the discussion is moot for them. Also people like to feed AKs 4-6 MOA surplus ammo and then complain about the rifles, that is just silly.