Cal-gun Fan
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Can you use hi-cap magazines in an unconverted Saiga rifle in California legally?
Saiga in California
- Thread starter Cal-gun Fan
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Librarian
Member
What's an "unconverted Saiga"?
For example, if you mean a Saiga that is a registered California 'assault weapon', then you may use any legally owned magazines, large-capacity or other.
The 'large-capacity magazine + centerfire, semiautomatic rifle (with features, such as a pistol grip or a folding stock) + bullet button' thing is an issue, because that would be an 'assault weapon'. If the gun is already an 'assault weapon', cannot make it more so.
Read this thread at Calguns -- http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=387409
For example, if you mean a Saiga that is a registered California 'assault weapon', then you may use any legally owned magazines, large-capacity or other.
The 'large-capacity magazine + centerfire, semiautomatic rifle (with features, such as a pistol grip or a folding stock) + bullet button' thing is an issue, because that would be an 'assault weapon'. If the gun is already an 'assault weapon', cannot make it more so.
Read this thread at Calguns -- http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=387409
Cutter
Member
Simple answer, NO.
rromeo
Member
Librarian, the Saiga rifles come new in "sporting" configuration, without a pistol grip, similar to a Mini 14.
By California AW laws, you may use large capacity mags in a "unconverted" Saiga rifle. It's said that Yang anything other than standard (I mean what comes with the gun) will trigger 922(r) and you will need to lose some imported parts. That's of course a federal issue, not California.
I swear Librarian knows this, but he has so much information in his head that he couldn't think straight. (That's a sincere comment)
By California AW laws, you may use large capacity mags in a "unconverted" Saiga rifle. It's said that Yang anything other than standard (I mean what comes with the gun) will trigger 922(r) and you will need to lose some imported parts. That's of course a federal issue, not California.
I swear Librarian knows this, but he has so much information in his head that he couldn't think straight. (That's a sincere comment)
Cal-gun Fan
Member
Yes...Calguns is great, but I wanted information HERE 
Thank you very much guys-big help.
Thank you very much guys-big help.
Yes you can. If the firearm is sold by an FFL to a regular Joe without a bullet button as a regular rifle then it would have to be in a California legal configuration.
That California legal configuration would not include features that make it an "assault weapon".
A non "assault weapon" can use grandfathered detachable magazines over 10 rounds in capacity under California law.
However as noted by Librarian if it has any of the bad features installed, and is made complaint with a legal "fixed magazine" by using a bullet button, one of the definitions of an assault weapon is a centerfire semi-auto rifle with a fixed magazine over 10 rounds. That means a magazine over 10 rounds is illegal to use in any gun with a bullet button, even if the magazine is entirely legal and grandfathered in.
Also noted that by only changing the magazine and installing a magazine over 10 rounds and not complying with 922(r) by also converting it with enough US made parts you can be violating federal law even if you are legal under California law.
This means you would have to remove multiple parts, and essentially replace them with similar or identical non -assault weapon American made parts to be legal under federal law, but nothing like a pistol grip etc to remain legal under California law (no normal conversions.)
This means while it may be legal under California law to simply insert a grandfathered magazine, it can be a violation of federal law without additional steps.
Additionally the only legal magazine would be one owned by you prior to 2000 within California. Unlike the old Federal AWB you cannot transfer grandfathered magazines to new people in California. So you could not legally purchase a new one to use in your new rifle, but if you just so happen to already have such a magazine from pre-2000 it is legal.
Possession and use of a magazine in violation of that is also a crime.
That California legal configuration would not include features that make it an "assault weapon".
A non "assault weapon" can use grandfathered detachable magazines over 10 rounds in capacity under California law.
However as noted by Librarian if it has any of the bad features installed, and is made complaint with a legal "fixed magazine" by using a bullet button, one of the definitions of an assault weapon is a centerfire semi-auto rifle with a fixed magazine over 10 rounds. That means a magazine over 10 rounds is illegal to use in any gun with a bullet button, even if the magazine is entirely legal and grandfathered in.
Also noted that by only changing the magazine and installing a magazine over 10 rounds and not complying with 922(r) by also converting it with enough US made parts you can be violating federal law even if you are legal under California law.
This means you would have to remove multiple parts, and essentially replace them with similar or identical non -assault weapon American made parts to be legal under federal law, but nothing like a pistol grip etc to remain legal under California law (no normal conversions.)
This means while it may be legal under California law to simply insert a grandfathered magazine, it can be a violation of federal law without additional steps.
Additionally the only legal magazine would be one owned by you prior to 2000 within California. Unlike the old Federal AWB you cannot transfer grandfathered magazines to new people in California. So you could not legally purchase a new one to use in your new rifle, but if you just so happen to already have such a magazine from pre-2000 it is legal.
Possession and use of a magazine in violation of that is also a crime.
Evergreen
Member
Come to Oregon.. We need you.. Leave California for the birds... The state's gun laws drive me meshugah.. THis is legal, that is illegal, this is legal if you do this and that, but that isn't legal because of this and that. I can only wonder what type of legal implications a person will face using a Saiga in self-defense with jumbo mags in a California court.
Cal-gun Fan
Member
After I finish High School and college, Oregon doesn't seem so bad
High school? Well that simplifies it a lot, no.
The only magazines greater than 10 rounds someone in the state of California can use are those possessed by that person before 2000 within California.
Assuming you are about 18 or under, and 2000 was 11 years ago, (and the AWB was in place from 1994 until past 2000, meaning most legal magazines over 10 rounds were made prior to 1994) you would have been a 7 year old boy or younger and unlikely to have owned or been purchasing pre-ban magazines in the middle of the AWB for a Saiga rifle at age 7 or younger.
You cannot buy those magazines legally in the state, and if you didn't own them before 2000 you can never own them while the law is still in place within California.
The only magazines greater than 10 rounds someone in the state of California can use are those possessed by that person before 2000 within California.
Assuming you are about 18 or under, and 2000 was 11 years ago, (and the AWB was in place from 1994 until past 2000, meaning most legal magazines over 10 rounds were made prior to 1994) you would have been a 7 year old boy or younger and unlikely to have owned or been purchasing pre-ban magazines in the middle of the AWB for a Saiga rifle at age 7 or younger.
You cannot buy those magazines legally in the state, and if you didn't own them before 2000 you can never own them while the law is still in place within California.
Quiet
Member
Large capacity Saiga magazines were not available in the USA, until after 2004.
Not sure how some one can say they owned large capacity Saiga magazines in CA prior to 01-01-2000.
Not sure how some one can say they owned large capacity Saiga magazines in CA prior to 01-01-2000.
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Good point Quiet. These are rifles imported from 1994 onwards during the AWB.
Converted rifles with everything moved to their new positions can take standard AK magazines, so if someone possessed those prior to 2000...
It would have to be some odd conversion with no pistol grip though to satisfy California law.
But the OP is still in high school, likely 18 or less, and was as a result around 7 years old or less in 2000. It was the middle of the federal AWB when larger capacity magazines cost a premium because they had to be from before 1994. I doubt the OP as a little boy had magazines that were grandfathered in.
So it is all a moot point.
Converted rifles with everything moved to their new positions can take standard AK magazines, so if someone possessed those prior to 2000...
It would have to be some odd conversion with no pistol grip though to satisfy California law.
But the OP is still in high school, likely 18 or less, and was as a result around 7 years old or less in 2000. It was the middle of the federal AWB when larger capacity magazines cost a premium because they had to be from before 1994. I doubt the OP as a little boy had magazines that were grandfathered in.
So it is all a moot point.
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Cal-gun Fan
Member
Thanks for the info guys. 10s are fine for now in that case
stuckinsocal
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Possession and use of high cap mags is not illegal. It doesn't matter if the OP was 7 or younger or any other age when get obtained them. As long as legally owns them, he can legally use them in an unconverted Saiga. The burden of proof is on the state to prove that someone using them or obtained them illegally.
The OP could even have (using the term lightly) high cap mags for new guns made after 2000 such as the M&P pistols. For example, finding mags that someone lost at a range and keeping them is not illegal. Using those mags wouldn't be illegal either.
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