Report: Army could be near breaking point

Status
Not open for further replies.

rick_reno

member
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Messages
3,027
With Iran on the horizon, this report can't be good news. Do they want the draft back?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11009829/

WASHINGTON - Stretched by frequent troop rotations to Iraq and Afghanistan, the Army has become a “thin green line” that could snap unless relief comes soon, according to a study for the Pentagon.

Andrew Krepinevich, a retired Army officer who wrote the report under a Pentagon contract, concluded that the Army cannot sustain the pace of troop deployments to Iraq long enough to break the back of the insurgency. He also suggested that the Pentagon’s decision, announced in December, to begin reducing the force in Iraq this year was driven in part by a realization that the Army was overextended.

As evidence, Krepinevich points to the Army’s 2005 recruiting slump — missing its recruiting goal for the first time since 1999 — and its decision to offer much bigger enlistment bonuses and other incentives.

“You really begin to wonder just how much stress and strain there is on the Army, how much longer it can continue,” he said in an interview. He added that the Army is still a highly effective fighting force and is implementing a plan that will expand the number of combat brigades available for rotations to Iraq and Afghanistan.

The 136-page report represents a more sobering picture of the Army’s condition than military officials offer in public. While not released publicly, a copy of the report was provided in response to an Associated Press inquiry.

‘Race against time’
Illustrating his level of concern about strain on the Army, Krepinevich titled one of his report’s chapters, “The Thin Green Line.”

He wrote that the Army is “in a race against time” to adjust to the demands of war “or risk ‘breaking’ the force in the form of a catastrophic decline” in recruitment and re-enlistment.

Col. Lewis Boone, spokesman for Army Forces Command, which is responsible for providing troops to war commanders, said it would be “a very extreme characterization” to call the Army broken. He said his organization has been able to fulfill every request for troops that it has received from field commanders.

The Krepinevich assessment is the latest in the debate over whether the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have worn out the Army, how the strains can be eased and whether the U.S. military is too burdened to defeat other threats.

Rep. John Murtha, the Pennsylvania Democrat and Vietnam veteran, created a political storm last fall when he called for an early exit from Iraq, arguing that the Army was “broken, worn out” and fueling the insurgency by its mere presence. Administration officials have hotly contested that view.

Ex-NATO commander agrees
George Joulwan, a retired four-star Army general and former NATO commander, agrees the Army is stretched thin.

“Whether they’re broken or not, I think I would say if we don’t change the way we’re doing business, they’re in danger of being fractured and broken, and I would agree with that,” Joulwan told CNN last month.

Krepinevich did not conclude that U.S. forces should quit Iraq now, but said it may be possible to reduce troop levels below 100,000 by the end of the year. There now are about 136,000, Pentagon officials said Tuesday.

For an Army of about 500,000 soldiers — not counting the thousands of National Guard and Reserve soldiers now on active duty — the commitment of 100,000 or so to Iraq might not seem an excessive burden. But because the war has lasted longer than expected, the Army has had to regularly rotate fresh units in while maintaining its normal training efforts and reorganizing the force from top to bottom.

At odds with Rumsfeld
Krepinevich’s analysis, while consistent with the conclusions of some outside the Bush administration, is in stark contrast with the public statements of Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and senior Army officials.

Army Secretary Francis Harvey, for example, opened a Pentagon news conference last week by denying the Army was in trouble. “Today’s Army is the most capable, best-trained, best-equipped and most experienced force our nation has fielded in well over a decade,” he said, adding that recruiting has picked up.

Rumsfeld has argued that the experience of fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan has made the Army stronger, not weaker.

“The Army is probably as strong and capable as it ever has been in the history of this country,” he said in an appearance at the Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies in Washington on Dec. 5. “They are more experienced, more capable, better equipped than ever before.”

Aid to the enemy?
Krepinevich said in the interview that he understands why Pentagon officials do not state publicly that they are being forced to reduce troop levels in Iraq because of stress on the Army. “That gives too much encouragement to the enemy,” he said, even if a number of signs, such as a recruiting slump, point in that direction.

Krepinevich is executive director of the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, a nonprofit policy research institute.

He said he concluded that even Army leaders are not sure how much longer they can keep up the unusually high pace of combat tours in Iraq before they trigger an institutional crisis. Some major Army divisions are serving their second yearlong tours in Iraq, and some smaller units have served three times.

Michael O’Hanlon, a military expert at the private Brookings Institution, said in a recent interview that “it’s a judgment call” whether the risk of breaking the Army is great enough to warrant expanding its size.

“I say yes. But it’s a judgment call, because so far the Army isn’t broken,” O’Hanlon said.
 
How about getting our men out of Korea and Japan and Germany and Saudi Arabia and other countries that don't want us there and moving them to Iraq where they are needed?

The favors the US Military does for the Saud family is one of the reasons Bin Laden is mad at us and the bloody Saud family repays our kindness by nurturing vicious wahhabism and blaming everything on the US. That's gratitude for you.
 
Okay here's a question.

To preface, this comes from someone who is ignorant about the Army.

When I was a kid, the neighbor's kid was given the choice: jail or the Army. The Army saved his life, gave him a career, and was great for him. But that sort of thing wasn't exactly good PR for the Army.

I live in San Diego on Point Loma, within a short drive of three Marine bases and at least five Navy bases, maybe more. When the wind is right, I can hear bugles morning and evening. But I've never spent time near an Army base.

So here's the question. In the modern world, with many teenagers fat and out of shape, and the military being seen less as a mainstream early career step, does the Army just have a demographic problem? The kids who want to join seem to want to do specialized things or join an elite force. Where I played with GI Joes, they play SEAL or carrier jet video games.

I'm not putting down the Army by any stretch. I'm just asking about its image, when it comes to recruiting the right people.
 
I don't think that the Army is broken, but I think the Army is not big enough. After Sept 11th, we need to activate Selective Service. This is a World War.

Dave Bean
 
I'm going to have to go with Heinlein on this one:

"I also think there are prices too high to pay to save the United States. Conscription is one of them. Conscription is slavery, and I don't think that any people or nation has a right to save itself at the price of slavery for anyone, no matter what name it is called. We have had the draft for twenty years now; I think this is shameful. If a country can't save itself through the volunteer service of its own free people, then I say: Let the damned thing go down the drain!" - Robert Heinlein, Guest of Honor speech at the XIXth World Science Fiction Convention
 
Perhaps we're in the final days of Rome

Hell yeah our way of life is worth fighting for. Now we just need to find someone to do the fighting.

Americans are too busy spending money they don't have on things they don't need.

Americans are the only people in the world that bitch because we can't buy more stuff and bitch because we don't have room the the stuff we have.

Case in point..storage units. Monuments to sheer idoitic behavior.

How many people in American have more in savings than they owe on credit cards??
 
redneck2 said:
Perhaps we're in the final days of Rome

Hell yeah our way of life is worth fighting for. Now we just need to find someone to do the fighting.

Americans are too busy spending money they don't have on things they don't need.

Americans are the only people in the world that bitch because we can't buy more stuff and bitch because we don't have room the the stuff we have.

Case in point..storage units. Monuments to sheer idoitic behavior.

How many people in American have more in savings than they owe on credit cards??
Hell Redneck, you made a point or three. Although I'm far from a socialist, it amazes me that we spend billions of dollars a year to combat obesity while other folks in other parts of the world beg for pennies to fight off starvation.
Just the way it is, I guess.
Biker
 
How about getting our men out of Korea and Japan and Germany and Saudi Arabia and other countries that don't want us there and moving them to Iraq where they are needed?

The favors the US Military does for the Saud family is one of the reasons Bin Laden is mad at us and the bloody Saud family repays our kindness by nurturing vicious wahhabism and blaming everything on the US. That's gratitude for you.

We will continue to prop up the Saudis until we pump the last drop of oil from their cold, dead oil fields.
 
We will continue to prop up the Saudis until we pump the last drop of oil from their cold, dead oil fields.

Never minding, of course, that Saudi Arabia is the source of most of the Islamic terrorist savagry running around on the loose. If we were serious about the so-called "War on Terror," we'd have solved Saudi Arabia's problem first.
 
There's an easy way to have an Army with all the soldiers we need: pay them what they're worth! At the moment, Army salaries for lower ranks are pretty darn shameful, considering that they're putting their lives on the line for us. If we doubled pay across the board, it still wouldn't amount to all that much, but it would definitely be a worthwhile incentive to potential servicemen.

You get what you pay for. We're getting the Army we're paying for - and I, for one, want a better one!
 
Meh, i'll believe it when i see it.

I know personally 5 people who have joined the armed forces from my school. There are probably many many more.

Plus people have been crying about 'Declining recruitment rates" for the past year, and they've been crying loudly. That usually indicates that its BS.

Usually.
 
Same goes for Law Enforcement Preacherman. Many here like to complain but look at what they are paid. Most public services are taken for granted. I just finished paying for a Master Degree for my daughter who wanted to teach. Her starting pay 22 grand a year. She is currently managing a McDonalds for twice that. When I was in LE I was degreed and paid 9 grand a year. I went into industry and within One year doubled my money. I'm not saying money is everything but you do have to make a living.
Jim
 
Last edited:
The US Army from Reagan's years in office until now has gotten better and better. People in general look on service in the US military in a much different way than they did in the 1960's. People take pride in wearing the uniform. The draft would destroy all that. I can't think of a much better way to wreck our forces than to bring back a draft.

Gregg

US Army 1985-89
USAR 1989-93
 
Hey, I'm enjoying my bread and circuses thank you very much. :D

Decadence and unawareness of our own weakness will cause us to overextend and eventually get pushed back. This is better than the historical alternative which traditionally includes looting and pillaging and centuries of chaos and suffering. Oh wait, we have nukes, it could still suck.

But seriously, italy didnt cease to exist, not did the influence of roman ideas or roman language diminish for long after the roman empire had shrunken back to a more sustainable size. The english language is widely spoken nearly everywhere on the planet except china and american ideas are slowly making inroads everywhere we go. Everyone wants to emulate our prosperity and in doing so they often get our liberty and our democracy along with it.

Its weird how the english countryside has all sorts of overgrown roman ruins just laying about, not to mention actual military forts. How will the archaeologists know american ruins? By our televisions? By the peculiar plumbing systems we bring with us? By the shape of the electric prongs in the walls? By the tupperware?
 
I read where they had raised the enlistment to 40.
When they raise it to 70 I'll re-up if they let me take my own rifle and shoot sand people at long range.
 
The draft would destroy all that. I can't think of a much better way to wreck our forces than to bring back a draft.

Disagree, we need a draft more then ever, we have nation that no longer
believe in any disipline and we grow weaker. A two year service for "all"
is not asking too much from that will come leaders who will stay in service,
and other's with a small amount of training that can be used in the future.
We will have a draft again however it may come to late.:banghead:
 
I think Heinlen was overreacting a bit. I don't see service to one's country as a form of slavery. If someone feels that way, he or she should not enjoy any of the benefits of living in a country, such as driving on public highways.

I too believe a draft would be a good thing. I think it would benefit young people greatly. I also think it would make parents think twice about voting for some yahoo who believes every diplomatic crisis should be solved by sending in the troops.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top