Savage 12BVSS vs. Remington 700 VLS in Win .243

[brooks]

I read that the designer of the Savage 110, in the late 1940's had extensive experience with the manufacture of the 50 cal. BMG during WWII and took the barrel nut from that design.

A WWII and Korean War vet recently told me how they burned out the barrels on the .50 BMG shooting "gooks" and he changed and head spaced them in the field. Now you know--THE REST OF THE STORY--about the Savage barrel nut.

Here is a video of Craig Boddington building his Savage 22-250 in Westfield, CT
on the Guns and Ammo Video page---sorry I can't hot link it.

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/video/rifleshooting/index3.html

 

[kenjs1]

I am curious - is it possible button rifles are more susceptible to rough barrels than hammer forged? Curious 'bout that. I prefer Rem's but recommended a Savage to a buddy who loves his. As for Remington not coming out with anything new - would the 700 VTR with triangular, factory compensated barrel be something you see other manufacturers producing? How about lightweight, actually transportable, varmint rifles with fluted barrels? R3 recoil pads? Can't say everything new is better but Remington did come out with the Ebonix....I mean Etronix a few years ago. Like it or leave it the thing was definitely something new. Savage has the accutrigger that is somewhat new but Remingtons have new triggers and so, thank God, do Rugers. What I want is something as beloved as a Winny, built like a CZ ( along with the set trigger), a bolt as smooth as a Tikka that made contact like a Savage, carried (and sorry but have to say 'shot') like a Browning, had mounts and rings like a Ruger, 3- position safety, that looked like a Cooper but cost like a Howa. Whats the problem.?

 

[Auburn1992]

If anyone knows, what would be a good twist rate for a .22-250; and what grain would go best w/ it?

 

[skinewmexico]

would the 700 VTR with triangular, factory compensated barrel be something you see other manufacturers producing? How about lightweight, actually transportable, varmint rifles with fluted barrels? R3 recoil pads?

Guess we'll see when all the benchrest and F-Class guys start shooting triangular barrels in competition. And a factory fluted barrel is not unique. And to prove my point.......the R3 recoil pad is made for Remington by........Limbsaver.

 

[Horsemany]

I will give Remington credit for keeping their product line fresh whether it is good stuff or not. Remington has been passed by many in the performance dept. but they have a history of keeping it fresh. Look at the Sendero's, Etronix, countless heavy barrel configurations. However I've notice in the last 2 years Remington seems to pride itself on allowing no human interaction in the production of their guns. They have dropped several wood models across the board this year including shotguns. They have cheapened whatever few models are checkered, gone to a stamped magazine follower, gone to R3 recoil pads that don't need to be properly fit like a real pad, etc.etc. I saw some SPS's yesterday at my gunshop that had deep machining gouges radially running down the receiver and barrel so deep the bead blasting didn't cover it. I heard they were on the verge of filing chapter 11 last year when they were purchased. This is never good for quality products IMO.

On the other hand look at all the new rifles flourishing on the lower end of the market. Notice all the posts about $300 and $400 rifles. The shooting public has voted with their pocketbooks and apparently the vast majority want CHEAP guns! This trend has been going on for decades but was put in overdrive with the invention of NAFTA IMO. Ask any gunsmith what he thinks the quality was like guns made in the 50's. I've steered off course with this post so I'll get off my soap box now.

 

[kenjs1]

Of course the R3 is made by Sims -but only used by Remington. That was my point - no one else was offering them nor can I find any other mainstream manufacturer website offering a compensated barell on a standard model so I am going to count that as unusual. Looked but found no others with a triangular barrel so again, unusual. My post never addressed benchrest competition just unusual offerings. Not saying better -saying new\different on a somewhat regular basis -like an attractive lightweight varminter with a fluted barrel - not common. I am not rah rah for Remington just unbiased. Plenty of other makes have models and features I like. Now if someone can chime in about button barrels and fouling......

 

[RugerOldArmy]

...What I want is something as beloved as a Winny, built like a CZ ( along with the set trigger), a bolt as smooth as a Tikka that made contact like a Savage, carried (and sorry but have to say 'shot') like a Browning, had mounts and rings like a Ruger, 3- position safety, that looked like a Cooper but cost like a Howa. ....

I dunno if I agree with each of the specifics, but that sure is the way to look at things in my book.

Gets expensive tho!

 

[skinewmexico]

Fouling on a button barrel is going to be a factor of how many barrels the button has done previously. And there are a lot of factory barrels that foul significantly, and shoot lights out. There are a lot of hammer forged barrels that don't foul, and shoot like crap, due to the induced stresses. Hammer forging was invented as a cheap way to mass produce throw-away machine gun barrels, so I have trouble accepting them in good guns. Although some shoot great.

 

[kenjs1]

Here is a good read from Clint McKee and Fulton Armory on the differences between barrel types. It is a short and educational read well worth the two minutes it might take to read it.
http://www.fulton-armory.com/Barrels.htm

 

[dennisH87]

+ 1 on the Savage. Out of the box w/ handloads mine shoots .25 groups at 100 yards