Saw "something" today

[kBob]

At a local gun shop I always check behind the counter for stuff that just came in on trades or consignment befor it gets priced and once in a great while find something interesting.

Today I was looking over at a Repro 1873 Winchester carbine and saw what appeared to be a Repro Zouave rifle close at hand. SO I aasked to see it just to see if I could pick it up cheap.

It was not a Repro Zouave. Neither. The lock was marked Remington over Illion, N.Y. forward of the hammer and 1858 behind it and the only marking on the barrel was JCB over US. I then found US stamped on the top edge of the buttplate where it is screwed over the top of the stock. This was partially stamped over with the leter F over the number 27.

It had a tulip style ram rod and the rear sight was fixed. There was a bayonet lug on the right side of the barrel and a Enfield two band type sword-ayonet that fit it. The forward arch of the front band had been cut away appearently to allow the band to be removed and replaced over the bayonet lug.

My gauge was on my other set ofkeys so it could have been .54 or .58 but I do not know for sure.

The guy this consignment piece belonged to was in the shop buying a Springfield M-1A (and being stiffed a sling and magazine) and talked to me a bit about it.

Supposedly the bayonet lug and cutt away forward part of the front band were done in the South. I was given what seemed to me a most suspicious stiry regaurding southern agents intercepting the arms in NYC just before the ACW when some folks had decided to stop selling arms to southern states and individual voulonteer militia groups.

Neither the store nor the owner would name a price and both seemed more interested in me nameing a price.

I was afraid (make that sure of)of being laughed at or ticking someone off, for my current mad money account is below $200 at the moment so I made no offer.

The gun is at Pickett Weaponry in Newberry FL if anyone is interested, I believe they are computer savy.

My phone's camera function is kaput (washing machine AND dryer) so don't ask.

Well, it was fun holding it.

-kBob

 

[pohill]

Did it have any rifling? I have a Belgian rifle that was mixed and matched over the years, and someone made it a smoothbore, which is a shame. But I still shoot it. Maybe they would have taken $200 for it - I didn't pay too much more for mine.

 

[kBob]

Seemed to have three wide shallow grooves.

There was a Mississippi rifle like patch box, empty, that had a good spring and hinge on it.

Really did look like a Mississipi rifle except for the bayonet lug and that cut away portion of the front band.

The tip of the ramrod was only shallowly dished as though intened for round ball.

Got a lot going on tomorrow but will try to get some pictures sometime this week.

-kBob

 

[hawkeye74]

From the lock markings, It was not a Mississippi or a Zouave. The Zouave was made between 1862-1865 so would not have a lock date of 1858. Remington made the Mississippi for the State of New York, but those were made from 1848-1854 and have Herkimer NY, markings, not Ilion, NY.

The only Remington lock with the 1858 markings you listed that I have heard of would have been a contract lock to modify Model 1816 to percussion from flintlock. The smoothbores had bolsters and Maynard tape primer locks manufactured by Remington that were then installed at the Frankford Arsenal. At the same time, these were rifled. There were 20,000 of the locks and bolsters installed. To my knowledge, none of these were fitted with a patch box as you described. Also, they were .69 caliber.

If the gun you described was .54-.58, it sounds like a composite gun put together at some point. Unfortunately, these are showing up quite frequently as "Southern Arms" when in fact someone has collected a few parts and slapped them together to claim it was a Confederate Arm.

Without more information, or pictures, I can't answer more.

BTW, Mississippi Rifles were sometimes fitted with Saber type bayonets.