Saying goodby to CZ75

[TexVetDan]

I called CZ USA today to ask about my CZ75 40cal's lake of accuracy (6-7" at 25yds from the bench). Target that came with the gun shows a 3.3" group at 25m. I told them I tested a Beretta 9mm from the same bench position and got consistent 2" groups. They told me that the 40cal was harder to shoot than a 9mm and offered to do a trigger job for $80. They were very nice and tried to be helpful but could not give me a good reason or solution for my problem. I love this gun but I'll be trading it in on a Beretta 40 in a couple of weeks. I agree with all you guys that love your CZ's, it is a fine gun and very reliable. I just got unlucky with this one.
I'm going to take such a beating on the trade in.
Dan

 

[Black Snowman]

I don't know anyone with a ransom rest to test the gun with but accuracy deficiancies are hard to verify and are the most likely to be due to user error or "upgrades" so the manufacurers are rightfully leary of taking responsablility for the problem.

It's possible you got a dud. If you know anyone else who has one you could try swapping parts, like the barrel or entire upper, and narrow down the issue. If you call in and can give them a diagnosis and tell them your troubleshooting process they would likely be a lot more helpful getting the issue resolved.

It's not a perfect solution but might save you a lot of money even if it does cost you some time.

Good luck whatever you do.

 

[10-Ring]

WOW this may be the first negative thread I've seen re: CZ's! OTOH, the 96 is the nicest pistol I've shot in that caliber

 

[Baron Holbach4]

Your CZ75 is still a great pistol. Why not keep it and get the Beretta too?

 

[TexVetDan]

Yes it's a great pistol. Hate to let it go but I'm not a collector and can't tolerate 6" groups at 25yds from the bench. I have no confidence in shot placement with this gun.
Dan

 

[raz-0]

Honestly, I'd suggest two things.

1) see if you can find someone with a 9mm cz to try. THe cartidges are genuinely different handling, and it may just be you.

2)It may be you AND the gun, but neither's fault. It may just not be the right thing for you ergonomically, and that can make a world of difference.

As an illustration, my friend picked up a 1911. He thought it was messed up, but I tried it and was getting GREAT groups compared to my other guns at the time. He was a new shooter, and just needed to practice more. However, I go out in a fit of gear-lust and get myself a 1911, and I'm all over the palce with it no matter how hard I try. I'm talking it looking like patterning a shotgun when I am shooting at SEVEN YARDS, no matter how hard I tried. Replace the grips with slimmer grips, and I can get ok groups, but only if I work at it. Put on the hogue finger groove grips and BAM! Nice groups and shooting them relatively fast with definite overhead for improvement whereas I had been giving my all before for only mediocre performance.

Fortunately I had my baby eagle ( a cz75 derivative) to keep me company while I figured all that out. It is still the most accurate pistol I have had out of the box, but now that I have my 1911 sorted out, it'll have to coast on all the attention it got for a while.

 

[TexVetDan]

Maybe good news

Just called a local gun shop to find out about an order I had and ask about selling the CZ through them. They offered to check it out first, in the shop and at the range, to see if there was anything to be done. They said that this is not nornal for a CZ of any caliber and seemed optimistic about a fix(ajustment?). So there is hope. Also I have let other shooters have a go at it with no luck (I was hoping it was just me). I'll be a very happy camper if I can keep this gun.
Dan

 

[George Hill]

When you talked to CZUSA - did you talk to Mike, the head gunsmith?
If not - insist on talking to him directly.

 

[TexVetDan]

Yes I did talk to Mike and as I said he tried to help. No fault with him, it's got to be hard to figure it out over the phone without specifics. Maybe the locals can pinpoint the problem.
Dan

 

[Sulaco]

Why not just send it back to CZ? Mike will shoot it and tell you for sure what is up. He is a heck of a smith and you can trust his opinion.

I would do this before I sold it off. At least give CZ a chance to make it right if it is the gun. If not, Mike will let you know and then you can sell it feeling ok about whoever gets it since you know it is you and not the gun.

Just my opinion.

 

[CZF]

Something about your gun sounds out of spec. The .40 isn't known for
it's accuracy, until you put it in a gun like a 75SA. Mine would "snake-
eyes" @25 yards with Wolf ammo!

As you migh guess, the new owner reports it is superbly accurate
with higher-performance ammo and handloads.


A standard 75B in .40 should give 3-4 inch groups, depending on
ammo selection.

Maybe you would do better with a $250.00 CZ40B..a .40 with above
average accuracy??..Hate to lose a CZ owner)

 

[George Hill]

I am VERY suprised that Mike didn't tell you to send it in so he could look at it. Sounds like there is something very wrong in the gun, and I would think he would want to examine it.

Good luck selling it. Seriously. If you lost faith in the gun - even getting it fixed wont really help that. If you want a .40, the Beretta is very good, as is the SIG P229 and the HK USPC .40.

Let us know what's up after you deal.

 

[PCRCCW]

What If I can guarrantee its the gun and not you....Ill do you a BIG favor and give you 30$ for it and pay for the shipping. Good deal eh? Ya, I know...............

I figured it was worth a try Cant blame me for trying........

Shoot well.

 

[TexVetDan]

Might be close to a solution

Took my CZ75 in to the local gum shop where I bought my two Bersa's and he showed me some interesting things. First, the outside of the barrel had marks indicating that it was not seating properly each time it locked up. Second, the barrel bushing was not as tight as it could be. And third, the trigger in single action mode was moving the hammer back before it released.
He will polish the barrel until it will seat properly. Then to the range to be fired from a vise. If that doesn't tighten the groups enough he will order a new bushing from CZ. He said he may be able to improve the trigger also.
He had a good opinion of CZ's in general and owned several that would outshoot much more expensive guns. I think this is going to work out and I thank you guy for all the help, you made me stop and think before dumping this gun. I'll let you know how it is when it comes back.
Thanks, Dan

 

[3 gun]

Second, the barrel bushing was not as tight as it could be.

When did CZ75s get a barrel bushing? Is this something new they are using?

 

[Badger Arms]

Barrel bushing, eh? Hmmmm. Funny how a 9mm shot better than a 40. My first call would be flinching. Reminds me of a story about 10 years ago. I'd been shooting my little 25 and a 22 I think. Was done and decided to see what everybody else was shooting. The guy on the far right was shooting about 9" groups all over the place on his target. He was shooting a brand-new Para Ordnance P-12 45 pistol. Watching him, the gun was pretty steady but bucked each time he took a shot. I asked if I could 'seat the bushing' on the gun and see if that might be the problem. Yeah, I know, but it gave me an excuse to return the gun to him unloaded and tell him there was a round in the chamber. He jerked the trigger and the gun wobbled all over the place as the hammer fell.

Following a short lecture on trigger control, flinch, and that he'd really bought a difficult gun to control. I told him that he'd probably have to shoot a few hundred rounds at the range before he dared to carry the gun. Best part was when he let me shoot the gun to see how well it shout. I'll be darned if I didn't cut the 'X' right out of the center!

Even the best shooter can flinch. Even the most humble flincher will swear up-and-down that it's the gun's fault. Trigger jobs will help with flinch (and that's what the CZ guy was trying to help with) because you are less likely to know when the gun is going to fire. I'd let a few other people shoot that CZ before you sell it. If they do better than you, keep the gun and swallow your pride. The CZ75 is one of the most ergonomic and solid weapons available. It has a solid reputation for accuracy.

You say you bought two Bersa's, do you have any experience with larger calibers? Don't count 9mm, btw. Also don't believe ANYTHING that a guy tells you after he's sold you two Bersa's with a straight face.

 

[Master Blaster]

I'm a long time trigger jerker/ flincher myself and its a hard problem to overcome.

If you reload, take a .40 case or 3 and reload it with only the bullet, no powder or primer, just resize and seat and crimp. If youu dont reload ask someone you know who does, or order dummy cartridges from Brownells??

(Ihave seen them sold dont know where they came from though)

Have a friend at the range mix the dummies into a magazine of live rounds, and then shoot as normal.

I guarrantee that you will be surprised at how much you move the gun when you hit one of the practice rounds (even if you have it on a sandbag) this will help your flinch/ jerk.

It helped me overcome mine when shooting the .45.

The one thing I have noticed and do not like about my new CZ 85 is the fact that the trigger moves back a good amount after the shot breaks (overtravel is like a 1/4") this is definately not conducive to good accuracy.

 

[TexVetDan]

"You say you bought two Bersa's, do you have any experience with larger calibers?"

357 blackhawk for 20+ years, 45 commander for about 2 years, and many others and never had this kind of problem. I have had other people shoot the CZ with the same result. About the barrel bushing, I'm trying to relate what he was telling me from memory and could very easily not be using the right term. The main point is, I'm going to get to keep a gun I really like.

The Bersa's are 380 and 45 and I will give a range report on them next week.
Dan

 

[Spackler]

I'll jump in to suggest having the barrel crowned, probably a $25 - $30 job. Might make a big difference.

 

[TexVetDan]

Thanks Spackler, I plan on letting this guy do whatever it take. I might as well admit to my ignorance and say I don't know what "barrel crowned" means but if that's what is required, then do it.
Dan

 

[PCRCCW]

You cant "rebush" a CZ75...the slide is the bushing and if the barrel has that much "play" in it while in lockup...Id simply send the topend to CZ and have it replaced......CHEAPER AND FASTER THAN Trying to figure out whats up with the gun..................EH?

Shoot well.

 

[Pilot]

I agree with PCRCCW. Send it back. All four of my CZ's are stone cold reliable and VERY ACCURATE.

 

[Sulaco]

The hammer is supposed to move when you pull the trigger. Lol, it sounds to me like you just need to do some more shooting and less thinking.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

The hammer on the 75B line will go BACK or LIFT before going forward on the DA/SA guns, when firing from the cocked position.

That is a function of the hammer/sear interface and makes for a less crisp hammer drop than you'd like.

I've got a 75B SA that doesn't have that annoying trait, an 85 Combat that has had a trigger job with only a hint of "lift," and a pre-B 75 that doesn't have it at all.

Its common to the "B" line of guns -- and is probably engineered in as a "safety" measure. (That's my supposition -- I've read or heard nothing to make me think that CZ acknowledges such a design "feature.")