SBR reciever assembly/registration

[patsygarret]

I have been contemplating for years getting a SBR Ar15 for the only reason that i want one. and today while at a gun show one of the dealers told me that i can buy a stripped lower and assemble one myself after a LEO sign off and 200.00 tax. is this true? Also after a reciever is registered can i put on any lenght of upper as in 8.5,10.5 ect? can any of you tell me specifically the details involed and what forms, and in what order it needs to be done? I have a couple of recievers(stripped) that i bought and never put together can i register one of these? Thanks in advance if anyone can advise, just want to get it right as i would not want to end up in jail over somthing like this.

 

[Prince Yamato]

There are two types of forms for Class 3 weapons, the Form 1 and the Form 4.
Form 1 is what you get if you make the weapon yourself, Form 4 is if you purchase an already made weapon from a dealer.

I've gone through the Form 4 process, the Form 1 process is somewhat similar:

1) Purchase your lower
2) Fill out Form 1 in triplicate. (includes attaching passport photos, which you can do with your own digital camera). Two are for the ATF, one is your own personal copy
3) Bring two Form 1s to your local CLEO. There, you will submit yourself to an investigation and get your fingerprints taken on blue federal fingerprint cards (in Texas, it cost me $10).
4) After your CLEO signs your Form 1s and returns them to you, you turn them into the ATF with a $200 check (for your tax stamp).
5) At this point, you might want to send your lower off to get engraved with the name of the manufacturer (in this case, your name) and the city of manufacture (ex. El Paso, TX). because...
6) Next, you will wait a couple months while the ATF reviews your Form 1s for completion and does a background check.
7) The ATF will mail you one of your Form 1s back with a $200 stamp on it. You can now put any upper you'd like on your SBR.


*SBR is kind of like a Gold Card. You can configure your gun with as long or short of a barrel as you'd like. You want a forward grip and no stock? Sure. 7" barrel and M4 stock? Sure. Whatever you'd like.

This whole process is well worth it and not as hard as it sounds. If you need help along the way, just contact the NFA branch of the ATF, they are very helpful. Class 3 weapons are fun. Plus, you get bragging rights at the range.

 

[patsygarret]

on the engraving of the reciever can it be done by anybody such as a jewlrey store that engraves trophies, plaques ect? and what exactly is meant by a passport photo? you have been a great help thank you

 

[medalguy]

Anybody can engrave it. A passport photo is the type used on your passport, I believe about 2 inches high just head and top of shoulders. Any Fedex/Kinko's will know what you need, or look in the phone book under "Passport Photos".

Good luck with your CLEO.

I might wait until I got my paperwork back before engraving the receiver.

 

[Prince Yamato]

On the Form 1/ Form 4, it says what type of photo size it needs to be. It just needs to fit in a ~2 x 1.5" box. I did mine with my digital camera and my home printer. Nothing fancy. It just has to look like a "passport-style" photo.

 

[patsygarret]

thanks guys i am hoping to talk to my CLEO on monday, you guys have been a great help i may have more questions in the future but i have enough information to get started.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Anybody can engrave it.

There are specifics of font size, depth of the engraving, etc that must be met. Make sure that whoever engraves it can meet those specs.

Once the tax stamp is issued however you CANNOT leave it with just anyone to be engraved since it will be an NFA firearm at that time. That's why it's best to get it engraved BEFORE the tax stamp is issued.

 

[smince]

Once the tax stamp is issued however you CANNOT leave it with just anyone...

If you create a trust, the trust owns the gun, and anyone listed on the trust can have possession of the gun (like other family members, etc.).

It cuts out the fingerprints, photos and CLEO sign-off, too. A bit more expensive, but maybe worth more in the long run?

 

[TexasRifleman]

If you create a trust, the trust owns the gun, and anyone listed on the trust can have possession of the gun

That has nothing to do with getting it engraved, you left out the rest of my sentence. The point is that after the tax stamp is issued you can't take it to just any engraver and leave it, you have to send it to an SOT since it's now an NFA firearm.

 

[General Geoff]

The point is that after the tax stamp is issued you can't take it to just any engraver and leave it, you have to send it to an SOT since it's now an NFA firearm.

Don't you just love the NFA? Keeping scumbag engravers and machinists from possessing blocks of metal for the good of society...

 

[nalioth]

To illuminate TR's statements, you CAN take your gun to anyone for engraving as long as you stay with it while they work on it.

 

[patsygarret]

is the font size requirements listed on the form 1 or the Atf website? Sorry for all the questions but i just want to be sure i have all my bases covered.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Here's a scan of a letter from ATF on this. They quote the CFR's, it's buried in CFR 27 479.102 for manufacturers, which is what you become when you file a Form 1.

The law is fuzzy on the size, but the depth of the engraving is specified.

http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/s69/Donr101395/?action=view&current=ATFengravingletter.jpg

And, if anyone needs this done, I recommend Orion Arms. They are an SOT as well so you don't have any problems with that.

Some cool graphics (No affiliation, just a happy customer)

http://orion-arms.com/

 

[alemonkey]

Hi Patsy, welcome to THR from a fellow Nebraskan. You might want to check out the NFOA forum (see my signature line - and join us while you're at it!). There are some guys on there who have experience with NFA in Nebraska. I know in Lincoln the chief of police refuses to sign off on any NFA items, so everyone goes with a trust instead.

 

[smince]

My point of leaving out part of your sentence, and adding the part about the trust, is that you can't leave it with just anybody...period. You have to be there. I was actually trying to put into brief words something you have posted in another thread:

The biggest advantage is who can possess the items.

In an individual tax stamp only the named individual can be in possession of the item. With a trust/corporation any of the named officers can be in possession (as long as age and other things match up).

That can potentially be huge.

 

[TexasRifleman]

My point of leaving out part of your sentence, and adding the part about the trust, is that you can't leave it with just anybody...period

Oh that's cool, I just didn't want to get the OP confused on his engraving. That's always one of those places where if you don't tread lightly you can technically put yourself in trouble.

I agree with you completely that a trust is the way to go.

 

[freakshow10mm]

(a) You, as a manufacturer, importer, or maker of a firearm, must legibly identify the firearm as follows:

(1) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed) or placed on the frame or receiver thereof an individual serial number. The serial number must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and must not duplicate any serial number placed by you on any other firearm. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch; and

(2) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed), or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered or removed. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes:

(i) The model, if such designation has been made;

(ii) The caliber or gauge;

(iii) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer or maker;

(iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm;

Here is the statute. Notice the only height requirement is for the serial number, nothing else. The rest of the information can be as big or small as you want to but the serial number height must be 1/16" or larger. All engraving must be .003" deep.

For an NFA weapon such as a SBR which you are taking another manufacturer's marked receiver and making a SBR, you need only engrave your name, city, and state on the receiver. You will use the other information already engraved.

 

[patsygarret]

so is it ok to leave the gun at my house (in a safe) when i am not there and the wife is home?

 

[freakshow10mm]

She cannot have access to it.

It's easier with my stuff being company property because I just made my wife a non-compensated employee, so that takes care of that issue.

If you have a trust and she is also in the trust, same thing. It won't matter.

But if the gun is individually yours, then no one else can have access to it.

 

[Prince Yamato]

so is it ok to leave the gun at my house (in a safe) when i am not there and the wife is home?

Ok folks, let's not freak the poor guy out here. Putting it in your safe should probably be sufficient. You could probably put a trigger lock through it and be good.

The basic idea behind single-ownership NFA items is that you are the only one who can have private access to them (aside from an NFA dealer). Truthfully, I can't imagine the ATF coming down hard on you because you put the item in a safe at your house where your wife (a trusted person) lives. Find me a court that would convict you and I'll find you a Supreme Court case that will change the NFA laws as we know them.

 

[4t5]

I took my AR-15 SBR receiver to a nearby trophy shop and they engraved it while I waited. I think the regulations say 1/16" high letters, .003" deep. You must engrave the entire name of the trust, and the city/state where it was manufactured (turned into an SBR).

 

[patsygarret]

you guys have been a great help with my qustions on this. i also spent some time on the phone with a man from NFA on filing out the app and storage of the unit, caliber conversion questions ect. I thank you for all the assistance you have provided. Just need to run down the sheriff and convince him why i need one. Dont think it will be too bad , he is pro-gun and attends the same church. Besides i bought him a cup of coffee a week or so ago so he owes me!!!!!

 

[Prince Yamato]

One last thing, the reason you want to own one: FOR ALL LAWFUL PURPOSES.

 

[shotgunjoel]

Dont think it will be too bad , he is pro-gun and attends the same church. Besides i bought him a cup of coffee a week or so ago so he owes me!!!!!

See, only the politically connected.....

 

[LiquidTension]

One other thing. It's not a good idea to have possession of the short upper before you get the Form 1 back. ATF calls that "constructive possession." Sure, the chances of being prosecuted are pretty slim - but do you really want to take the chance? If you buy the upper before you get the F1 back, leave it at your dealer's shop if he'll let you.