Scary Haz-Mat

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Elkins45 said:
Wow. There are a lot of people missing the point here. Regardless of the relative safety of primers, the guy paid $27 for a service he did not receive. The seller essentially ripped him off and continues to keep the hazmat fee even after being informed of the error.

I would absolutely leave bad feedback. And in a bit of pure spitefulness I would inform the shipping company that this particular bad actor was skirting their hazmat policy.
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jerkface11 said:
It looks like people are either missing or ignoring that the seller is charging the hasmat fee then just pocketing it. He even went thru the trouble of covering up the word primer on the package.
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I didn't see anyone here argue that point. Of course the shipper was completely wrong to collect the Hazmat fee, pocket it and then ship the package illegally. After the OP made that point he moved on to saying how dangerous the shipping was and how he didn't want anyone to die over improper shipping. That's what I was addressing.

I didn't see anyone in this thread even hint at it being alright to rip off the buyer and ship illegally. :confused:
 
I'm not asking for the company's name. Just stating that if the degree of danger and unjust business practice is as stated maybe there was some sound advice from fellow posters to notify all those who were involuntarily involved ie. Gun broker and UPS. Both I'm sure would value that information regarding future business from said company. Didn't mean any disrespect to you, the issue's solution seemed to be getting lost in the weeds. ( Fwiw I agree with your statements. )
 
@ ArchangelCD:
The training and tracking and shipping paperwork requirements are from the federal government.
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulation...omply-federal-hazardous-materials-regulations

Please cast your attention to the section titled:
"Penalities per violation"
PENALTIES PER VIOLATION 107.329


CIVIL
MINIMUM $250.00*
MAXIMUM $55,000.00**

CRIMINAL*
INDIVIDUAL $250,000.00
CORPORATION $500,000.00

* $495.00 if related to Training
** $110,000.00 if violation resulted in death, serious illness or severe injury to any person or substantial property damage

(Levels of fine from 18 U.S.C. and includes provision for imprisonment for not more than 5 years.)
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So, big money fine, plus possible jail time.
Play by the rules, or don't play at all.
 
Packaging aside (and I'm not sure there is an issue here), the haz-mat designation also ensures the box isn't loaded onto an aircraft. There are real safety concerns with hazmat being shipped by air without the operator's knowledge.
 
I remember driving behind a ups truck a couple decades ago and we went around the interchange which was like jumping speed bumps and something in the back of his truck caught fire as smoke started rolling out the cargo area. He had a time just getting out of traffic to safely pull over. I didn't stop to lend a hand as I was late for work and what could I have done anyway? Point is drivers need to be aware of the dangers of hazmats. That being said I had no problem. With the hazmat fee when it was $4.00 although I did think it a bit high! Boy if I had only known how steadily and fast it would grow to the ridiculous rate of today!
 
I would certainly research the proper authorities that would handle such a matter and report it. I would also report it to GB and in the feedback.

He scammed a customer and shipped an item illegally.

I don't like hazmat fees any more than the next guy, but one jackass trying to not only bend the rules, but charging to do it the right way is no better than common theft. I would compare it to a company who charged sales tax and then didn't pay the taxes to the IRS. I bet they would frown on that, just as the ATF would frown on this.
 
If anyone is saying that primers being shipped without an outer box isn't a hazardous situation, you are very much wrong. 1000-1500 primers equal a 1/3 to 1/2 a stick of dynamite. If they are dropped just right, and get shocked, the box WILL explode.
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Let's see. I know reloaders that live in the city and have 50,000+ primers stored together in their home. 50,000 divided by 1,500 = 33.3 1/2 sticks or 16.6 of dynamite.

HOLEY URBAN RENEWAL BATMAN!

Please post documentation on your claim and documentation of such explosions occurring outside of a ammunition manufacturing facility.

Here you see a flat of 5000 Tula Berdan primers. If you look closely you will see that this is not only how Grafs shipped them out, but also the distributor shipped them to Grafs like that as well.
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Hey I got shipment just like that also.
 
Ok, you guys win. Primers are safe. The packaging they come in are a preventive to any kind of accident that could set them off. I get it.

My claim can't be substantiated in the general market. But you can't prove it hasn't happened either. There is relative safety in anything. Walking down the center line of a road is ''relatively safe''....

But, my over 10 years of making primers from a company you buy from, and my almost 30 plus years in the explosive ordinance industry, tells me who i need to believe.

And it sure isn't someone who views this hobby as completely safe.. Out..
 
Ok. So name the company. (Now.)

And name your plan of action. (Now.)

"Having a discussion about it" here does nothing for anyone.
 
I recently bough about 400 rounds of Golden Tiger 7.62x39mm off gunbroker, and when it arrived it was USPS priority mail and not only that... the "packaging" the guy used inside the box consisted of a Wal-Mart bag and every single box was severely torn up from being shipped, spilled rounds everywhere.

Needless to say, I was very, very angry.
 
Sam1911

Moderator

*

*

Join Date: October 22, 2007

Location: Central PA

Posts: 28,590


And name your plan of action. (Now.)

"Having a discussion about it" here does nothing for anyone.

__________________
-- Sam
Exactly.
 
No offense intended RN, but, IMO, you only legitimate complaint/issue is you paid for Haz-Mat shipping, but didn't get it...

And I believe this thread has surpassed it's viable lifespan...
 
Cooldill said:
I recently bough about 400 rounds of Golden Tiger 7.62x39mm off gunbroker, and when it arrived it was USPS priority mail and not only that... the "packaging" the guy used inside the box consisted of a Wal-Mart bag and every single box was severely torn up from being shipped, spilled rounds everywhere.

Needless to say, I was very, very angry.
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Loaded ammo is not the same as primers and powder according to the transportation laws. Loaded ammo does not require the shipper to follow Hazmat shipping procedures. Only the ORM-D warning sticker is required for ammo. Ammo can be legally shipped by the USPS so don't be upset.
 
I have decided to Forfeit my haz-mat fee and just take the loss..No big deal..I hate to snitch but I also feel that ethically, I must report the violation. That has been done as well..If the powers that be feel that it's important enough to act on I guess they will..Its out of my hands and I have a clear conscience..

Thanks for all the comments and lively discussion. Seems many of us have wide ranging options on this topic..
 
You did the right thing. Suppose the powers that be would have eventually found this out in other shipments and the liberal news would have found out.

By-By private folks ordering primers or powder haz-met be damed.
 
jcwit said:
You did the right thing. Suppose the powers that be would have eventually found this out in other shipments and the liberal news would have found out.

By-By private folks ordering primers or powder haz-met be damed.
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Hmmm....never considered that. Good point. Makes me feel better about my initial impulse to rat him out just for spite. Turns out there was a noble reason lurking under there after all.
 
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