Scary Haz-Mat

[Arkansas Paul]

I hate to snitch but I also feel that ethically, I must report the violation.

Of course reporting it is the ethical thing to do if for no other reason than you may stop someone else from getting ripped off.

You did the right thing. Don't second guess yourself.

 

[armarsh]

RN, The choices that were forced on you were between bad and worse. I find no fault in your decision.

 

[jerkface11]

Why feel bad for reporting the guy? He was breaking the law and stole your money.

 

[blarby]

I feel very bad that sometimes we forget we're in public.

Happens.

Gunpowder, pun inferred, does not help the situation much... In passing Conversation anyway.

 

[A Pause for the Coz]

From what I understand. may or may not be true. I am no expert.
The only legal requirement is the ORM-D sticker.
primers and powder are to be shipped by that standard.
If it had that sticker UPS and FedEx are required to follow the standard.


The Hazmat fee that UPS and Fedex charge are just shipper added requirements.
The sticker is for their use not a legal requirement. They do nothing different unless it is some thing they choose to do on their own
ontop of the ORM-D standard.

The shippers are just using the hazmat as a way to get some more money.
And in this case the seller used it to take money from you.
But I dont think any laws were broken. At worst UPS could refuse service to the seller.
In my view the seller has shown him self to be unethical.
I would not buy from him again.

 

[MtnCreek]

At least primers are easy to come by now.

 

[BSA1]

O.P.,

Since UPS broke the law by accepting and delivering a non labeled Haz-Mat item did you report them also?

 

[dickttx]

"Since UPS broke the law by accepting and delivering a non labeled Haz-Mat item did you report them also?"

If it was non labeled and no paperwork, how were they to know it was Hazmat?



"From what I understand. may or may not be true. I am no expert.
The only legal requirement is the ORM-D sticker.
primers and powder are to be shipped by that standard.
If it had that sticker UPS and FedEx are required to follow the standard."

It is my understanding (and I was wrong once) that ORM-D applies to ammo and hazmat to primers and powder.

 

[morcey2]

From what I understand. may or may not be true. I am no expert.
The only legal requirement is the ORM-D sticker.
primers and powder are to be shipped by that standard.
If it had that sticker UPS and FedEx are required to follow the standard.


The Hazmat fee that UPS and Fedex charge are just shipper added requirements.
The sticker is for their use not a legal requirement. They do nothing different unless it is some thing they choose to do on their own
ontop of the ORM-D standard.

The shippers are just using the hazmat as a way to get some more money.
And in this case the seller used it to take money from you.
But I dont think any laws were broken. At worst UPS could refuse service to the seller.
In my view the seller has shown him self to be unethical.
I would not buy from him again.

Not quite.

There are specific limits on the amount of hazmat material allowed to be shipped in a single truck and how it is to be situated in the truck. Specifically, there's a limit of 55 lbs of most explosives without having to have a haz mat plackard on the truck. There's a lot more to it than just that including required training and testing for drivers and carriers, but it isn't just a money-making scheme by the carriers. Either UPS or the shipper violated the law.

ORM-D (and the empty-diamond replacement sticker) only applies to small arms ammunition (at least in the firearms world) due to the limited hazard it presents and has nothing to do with standard Haz Mat shipping.

Here's a page telling one how to comply with the haz mat regs for your perusal:

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulation...omply-federal-hazardous-materials-regulations

Matt

 

[BSA1]

dickttx,

Humm, I did some checking and one manufacturer said you can ship up to 50 lbs. of primers, powder, fuses no Hazmat charge is required. Hazmat is required though if shipped by Air or if it is over 50 lbs.

Other sites state Hazmat is required.

Since the primers were not in another box and were been shipped in the factory box with the Winchester name, logo and rifle loads stamped on the box clearly labeled ORM-D that is what most of us would call a clue. How many UPS employees do you supposed handled that box on it's way to it's destination starting with the driver or clerk that should know the regulations before accepting the package? The UPS shipping clerks always ask me what the package contents are.

My Hazmat certification has expired so I have forgot the exact regs. I'll have to find my material and refresh my memory.

Regardless I agree the O.P. Should get a refund for the Hazmat fee.

 

[RN]

@BSA...Well that's not really the point and the shipper purposely covered up anything that said primers...

Owell...Its all done now so no need to fret over it anymore..As usual THR members have been very helpful but it might be time for the moderator to close this thread down..

 

[dickttx]

"Sinc the primers were not in another box and were been shipped in the factory box with the Winchester name, logo and rifle loads stamped on the box clearly labeled ORM-D that is what most of us would call a clue. How many UPS employees do you supposed handled that box on it's way to it's destination starting with the driver or clerk that should know the regulations before accepting the package? The UPS shipping clerks always ask me what the package contents are."

Look at post #1. Anything that indicated primers was covered by stickers.

 

[BSA1]

Dickttx,

I did. That's how I know what was on the exterior of the box.

However I am not going to get into a whizzing match with you. Call it what you and I will agree with you.

 

[therealwormey]

At least primers are easy to come by now.

amen to that,,,and to hell with all this other safety he said she said opinionated crap. now if powder would catch up all would be well with the world and we could find somethin else to converse about.